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Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident

dioncini
Posted: 9/3/05 at 1:26:42 AM
Views: 23563

If you have ever been on the "Top Scan" in Long Island's Adventureland you may notice that it's missing one piece of vital hardware, safety restraints/seat belts. As you can see in this photo from Canada Paramount's version of the Top Scan "Shockwave" they have in place safety seat belts. Why doesn't the Top Scan on Long Island have these safety restraints/seat belts for redundancy?

Well the Top Scan in Adventureland did not have these extra restraints/seat belts and I knew this was going to happen one day after the first and last time I ever rode that ride. The person was thrown into the parking lot and landed on the car windshield. Here is a link to the story.

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/ny-liride0902,0,141591.story?coll=ny-li-bigpix

I'm just wondering why some Top Scan's have the extra restraints/seat belts and why some don't? Either way I assume that someone is going to loose a very large lawsuit. Mondial (manufacturer) or Adventureland has some explaining to do for this death. Was Adventureland informed of the new change to the ride? Did Mondial notify Adventureland of the new design? Either way someone has to burn for this.

The Top Scan "Shockwave" in Canada was produced in 2001 and the Top Scan in Adventureland was produced in 1998. Well I understand that they changed the design later to add safety belts to the newer models, but why didn't the earlier versions get retrofitted with the new seat belts? Either way those new restraints/seat belts were added to the newer versions of Top Scan for a reason and we just found out why they were added due to this recent death.

The person who was thrown was reportedly mentally challenged and either worked her way to get off the ride or did not have the restraint down all the way due to her excessive weight. If those extra restraints were there, they would have most likely saved her life. It's a real simple equation, the larger you are the wider open the shoulder restraint is. When you're a large woman with breasts the shoulder harness will open even further. Thus, if the restraint/seat belt is there, your chances of survival are much better as you can't slide outwards or work your way out laterally.

Adventureland is saying that this is just a "mystery" from an email that I got from Adventureland representative. But it's no mystery, it's as clear as day.

On a personal note my fiance and I regret never taking our opinion about the missing seat belts to the management of Adventureland on the day we rode Top Scan which was only a few weeks prior to this incident. To the family of Ms. Brady we are sorry for your loss. I hope you find out exactly what happened and who is responsible for this. I can assure you somewhere down the line someone knows something about this incident other then what the park is telling you.

You don't know CRAP by chillforce chillforce Profile at 9/3/05 8:48:50 AM

WTF do you think you are saying that this was no accident and then just stating that a second belt was not in place but cannot give a reason for the ejection except to assume that this is the reason. You have no conclusions, you don't know crap about the incident but yet you are passing judgement.

ALL THE OPS AND I MEAN ALL, are reeling and hurting from this incident and even if it is the second belt, it will remain an accident. No one meant for this incident to happen, it was not an intentional incident. Do I know Ops at this park and how they are feeling, that answer is yes.

Before you claim any accident is not one, you had better learn how to state an accident could have been prevented rather than claim it was not an accident in the first place.

Ed

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by dioncini at 9/3/05 9:10:08 AM

I'm sorry for the loss of the person that was killed as much as anybody. I'm also sorry for all the employees that were involved. But I got a message from a Adventureland employee and was informed that they cannot figure out how this happnened and having rode both Top Scan in Adventureland and Shockwave at Paramount Wondernland, I know exactly how this happened and it's as clear as the photo shows above, take a closer look.

There are 2 versions of the Top Scan on the market, one with a safety seat belt and one without a safety seat belt. The one at Adventureland did not have a safety seat belt like other one that I rode at Paramount Wonderland. I understand that the one at Adventureland was an earlier version, but why on earth would Mondial add a safety seat belt to the newer versions and not retrofit the earlier versions with a seat belt restraint?

Somebody out there knows something more then they are saying right now, either Mondial or Adventureland. Don't deny the family the facts and the facts are shown in that photo above.

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by chillforce chillforce Profile at 9/3/05 9:42:42 AM

But I got a message from a Adventureland
> employee and was informed that they cannot figure out how
> this happnened and having rode both Top Scan in
> Adventureland and Shockwave at Paramount Wondernland, I
> know exactly how this happened and it's as clear as the
> photo shows above, take a closer look.

Thats great, people on the scene don't know for sure what happened but your psychic ability is telling all. So now this is a murder mystery. If it isn't an accident then it is a murder. I am sure that the people of Long Island would love your new Agatha Christie Novel

No one is denying the family the answers they need, your the only one suggesting that the goverment in Long Island is going to do that. They may do that in Canada, but they are not about to play that on Long Island. Here, the authorities investigate the accident, not the park or the manufacturer, and it is the authorities that give the answers. I thought it was that way in Canada as well, but your suggesting that the park and the manufacturer may be able to hide something.

Ed

Re: You don't know CRAP by dioncini at 9/3/05 9:42:58 AM

Sorry one more follow post to this comment:

> Before you claim any accident is not one, you had better
> learn how to state an accident could have been prevented
> rather than claim it was not an accident in the first
> place.

To say that this may or may not have been an accident is justifyable. However, only if no Top Scans were ever manufactured with extra seat belt restraints, then it could have been prevented, thus an accident. In this case it seems like Mondial did not decide to retrofit the same exact ride with seat belt restraints on their newer models. This is where neglect comes into play and not accidental.

Now perhaps this might have something to do with Canada's inspection laws, maybe not. But either way Paramount Wonderland cannot make a design change to the ride without informing Mondial and having the restraint approved by them.

Either way, it's more then just an acciedent. Now if I could change the subject line I would, however I cannot edit it now.

UH by CoasterFanatic CoasterFanatic Profile at 9/3/05 9:50:22 AM

Accident, Something happening unintentional

Negligence. Failure to do something required.

It's a accident until the investigation says otherwise.

Chuck, who can't imagine a park or ride manufacturer intentionally killing anyone and thats exactly what you implied.

Re: UH by dioncini at 9/3/05 9:59:31 AM

> Accident, Something happening unintentional

> Negligence. Failure to do something required.

Also:

Negligence. To make a design change on a new model and not recall or retrofit earlier models with the same new improved feature.

Someone somewhere said "Top Scan needs a seat belt restraint in addition to the shoulder harness" and it got them.

But why in the world didn't this happen to all of them? How many of these rides could have been produced worldwide that the cost would have been prohibitive to spend the extra money to retrofit them all with seat belts?

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by Absimilliard Absimilliard Profile at 9/3/05 10:17:11 AM

Dioncini... Just as a reminder, PCW Top Scan is the ONLY one to have seatbelts. Like others have said, Mondial use a "Triple Lock" restraint system, which makes seatbelts redundant. Paramount decided to add seatbelts... their choice. In Europe, tons of Top Scan travel around the Netherlands, UK, France and Germany without problems or seatbelts. I heard someone say before the forces require to "force open" a Mondial restraint would also rip out a seatbelt. How do you answer to that?
> If you have ever been on the "Top Scan" in Long
> Island's Adventureland you may notice that it's missing one
> piece of vital hardware, safety restraints/seat belts. As
> you can see in this photo from Canada Paramount's version
> of the Top Scan "Shockwave" they have in place
> safety seat belts. Why doesn't the Top Scan on Long Island
> have these safety restraints/seat belts for redundancy?

> Well the Top Scan in Adventureland did not have these
> extra restraints/seat belts and I knew this was going to
> happen one day after the first and last time I ever rode
> that ride. The person was thrown into the parking lot and
> landed on the car windshield. Here is a link to the story.

>
> http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/ny-liride0902,0,141591.story?coll=ny-li-bigpix
> I'm just wondering why some Top Scan's have the extra
> restraints/seat belts and why some don't? Either way I
> assume that someone is going to loose a very large lawsuit.
> Mondial (manufacturer) or Adventureland has some explaining
> to do for this death. Was Adventureland informed of the new
> change to the ride? Did Mondial notify Adventureland of the
> new design? Either way someone has to burn for this.

> The Top Scan "Shockwave" in Canada was produced
> in 2001 and the Top Scan in Adventureland was produced in
> 1998. Well I understand that they changed the design later
> to add safety belts to the newer models, but why didn't the
> earlier versions get retrofitted with the new seat belts?
> Either way those new restraints/seat belts were added to
> the newer versions of Top Scan for a reason and we just
> found out why they were added due to this recent death.

> The person who was thrown was reportedly mentally
> challenged and either worked her way to get off the ride or
> did not have the restraint down all the way due to her
> excessive weight. If those extra restraints were there,
> they would have most likely saved her life. It's a real
> simple equation, the larger you are the wider open the
> shoulder restraint is. When you're a large woman with
> breasts the shoulder harness will open even further. Thus,
> if the restraint/seat belt is there, your chances of
> survival are much better as you can't slide outwards or
> work your way out laterally.

> Adventureland is saying that this is just a
> "mystery" from an email that I got from
> Adventureland representative. But it's no mystery, it's as
> clear as day.

> On a personal note my fiance and I regret never taking our
> opinion about the missing seat belts to the management of
> Adventureland on the day we rode Top Scan which was only a
> few weeks prior to this incident. To the family of Ms.
> Brady we are sorry for your loss. I hope you find out
> exactly what happened and who is responsible for this. I
> can assure you somewhere down the line someone knows
> something about this incident other then what the park is
> telling you.

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by dioncini at 9/3/05 10:26:45 AM

> Dioncini... Just as a reminder, PCW Top Scan is the ONLY
> one to have seatbelts. Like others have said, Mondial use a
> "Triple Lock" restraint system, which makes
> seatbelts redundant. Paramount decided to add seatbelts...
> their choice. In Europe, tons of Top Scan travel around the
> Netherlands, UK, France and Germany without problems or
> seatbelts. I heard someone say before the forces require to
> "force open" a Mondial restraint would also rip
> out a seatbelt. How do you answer to that?

EASY! I'm not saying that the "force open" ever occured, in fact I know it didn't after talking to a few people. I'm saying that due to her excessive size the shoulder harness would not have gone all the way down to her bones as she was reported as being a 250 lb woman. Thus that restraint would have absolutley saved her life had she slid down through the shoulder restraint without a "force open". Especially if the person who pressed down on the shoulder restraint did not press hard enough.

Why this did not happen in outher countries? I could just say that Americans has an obesity epedemic and this is a cause for lots of deaths including this one. Sad but may be true.

Either way I have ridden Top Scan only weeks ago. It was the first ride I EVER rode in my life that I vowed never to ride again.

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by Masher at 9/3/05 4:55:23 PM

The frank reality is this forum is a poor one to engage regarding ride safety. Those messages fall into three categories...

1) Less than adequately written opening the author, in this case dioncini, to ridicule and dissection of verbiage for any and all weak points. At this point response by the author is fruitless as these folks, as is their right, already have their mind made up.

2) Well written, researched and carefully crafted to highlight areas of valid ride safety. These messages will pass without so much as a whimper.

3) Messages/rants that ridicule anyone who questions safety or in the best of cases those rare 'Darwin Award Candidates' that allow enthusiasts to bellow, "Its not the rides its the idiots who do crazy things". Folks that are easy prey are overweight, handicapped and well, DEAD, and unable to defend themselves.

Oh well back to more important things.

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by chillforce chillforce Profile at 9/3/05 10:59:34 PM

> Why this did not happen in outher countries? I could just
> say that Americans has an obesity epedemic and this is a
> cause for lots of deaths including this one. Sad but may be
> true.

So Americans are over weight and thus, cause their own demise? Yes it is true we have an obesity problem, I think some other countries such as Canada are catching up as well. Anyway, you have found a way, in less than 24 hours, to insult an amusement park, a ride manufacturer, Enthusiasts, Handicapped people and a whole bunch of young people of a certain park that are still breaking into tears tonight.

> Either way I have ridden Top Scan only weeks ago. It was
> the first ride I EVER rode in my life that I vowed never to
> ride again.

So this is what it comes down to. You have a fear about Top Scan and that is the whole problem. Well, get over it, I have been ridding TS for a few years now and I love the stupid thing with or without a belt. Ab, thanks for the follow up on the seat belt information. Masher, this is more the Darwin type, not the heavy set or challenged individual. Darwinisim depends on how ignorant you make yourself, not on how you create yourself.

Please vow never to make judgements on rides that you do not like as well, thank you.

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by SirWillow SirWillow Profile at 9/4/05 2:46:09 PM

My vote is on Masher's post. I think that he summed up the problems here quite well.

In other words, let the experts who actually have a clue what they're talking about do the investigating and let us know what really went wrong instead of making up a bunch of stuff trying to prove a point when really there isn't much "knowledge" there.

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by dioncini at 9/5/05 7:31:44 PM

You guys can throw out all the physco babble Darwinism's that you want. Also that I have insulted anyone is just BS, they were facts, not insults.

I can assure you that in the next few days reports of the "missing seatbelts" will be coming out and a few people are going to be less then happy about it.

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by chillforce chillforce Profile at 9/5/05 8:44:59 PM

> I can assure you that in the next few days reports of the
> "missing seatbelts" will be coming out and a few
> people are going to be less then happy about it.

Something that was not in the original package cannot be missing. No one is or will be happy about any report about the loss of life.

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by dioncini at 9/6/05 6:53:30 AM

> Something that was not in the original package cannot be missing.

Sell that statement to OSHA, New York Dept of Labor, Suffolk County Homocide, the press, the family of the victim, lawyers as to why Canada's had seat belts and Long Island's did not have seat belts and I can assure you that the word "missing" is going to be brought up quite often.

>No one is or will be happy about any report about the loss of life.

I wasn't talking about the loss of life, although that is very upsetting of course. I was talking about the fact that some or all of the parites mentioned above did not know that Canada's Top Scan had seatbelts.

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by loriu loriu Profile at 9/7/05 9:16:23 AM

The only reason PCW has seat belts is to appease their insurance carrier.

If Mondial actually thought it was a necessity, they would make all of them with the belts and issue a retro-fit to all rides already in operation with out them.

Re: UH by sparky sparky Profile at 9/7/05 10:37:58 AM

> But why in the world didn't this happen to all of them? How
> many of these rides could have been produced worldwide that
> the cost would have been prohibitive to spend the extra
> money to retrofit them all with seat belts?

Sir,

You are not a ride safety inspector, so please stop speaking out of your ass while trying to earn attention with your strongly unsupported opinions.

The Mondial Top Scan features a double back up microswitch system on each of its restraints. Seatbelts are *not* needed. Why is it then that some parks have them (i.e. Lagoon, Paramount Canada's Wonderland)? Strictly the park's choice. You know how Cedar Fair has seatbelts on EVERYTHING from their ferris wheels to their kiddie rides? It's simply the operator's choice to appease their insurance carrier.

If seatbelts were a primary part of the safety restraint, dont' you think Mondial would have mandated all Top Scans have them? Believe me, I work in the industry, and there is more than meets the eye when it comes to this unfortunate circumstance.

To just touch on the touchy issue, should a mentally disabled person have been allowed to ride the Top Scan in the first place? I personally do not think so. I mean, even a slow moving ride like the Scenic Skyway at Knoebels has seen an incident of this sort (to a much lesser degree and not resulting in a death of course).

Also, in trying to support your OPINION, at least post an accurate photo- the photo you posted was not even that of the Adventureland ride!

-Mark

Re: UH by dioncini at 9/7/05 9:35:47 PM

>The only reason PCW has seat belts is to appease their >insurance carrier.

Seems like their insurance carrier has brains I guess. Let's hear it for our neighbors to the north for having insight.

>If Mondial actually thought it was a necessity, they would >make all of them with the belts and issue a retro-fit to all >rides already in operation with out them.

And you think Adventureland is going to run this ride again without the safety belts again! HAHAHAHA

> You are not a ride safety inspector, so please stop
> speaking out of your ass while trying to earn attention
> with your strongly unsupported opinions.

Talking out of my ass? Bull, I have ridden both rides and have spoken to every department that is investigaing this incident. All of them with the exception of one department did not know that PCW's Top Scan had a safety belt and they were very surprised. I can assure you that lawyers THRIVE on information like this.

> The Mondial Top Scan features a double back up microswitch
> system on each of its restraints. Seatbelts are *not*
> needed. Why is it then that some parks have them (i.e.
> Lagoon, Paramount Canada's Wonderland)? Strictly the park's
> choice. You know how Cedar Fair has seatbelts on EVERYTHING
> from their ferris wheels to their kiddie rides? It's simply
> the operator's choice to appease their insurance carrier.

You can have all the redundancy in the world but who is going to make sure that the ride attendant is pushing down the restraint hard enough on a mentally challenged female that is overweight? The seat belt would have done the thinking for the attendant and survival for the rider.

> If seatbelts were a primary part of the safety restraint,
> dont' you think Mondial would have mandated all Top Scans
> have them? Believe me, I work in the industry, and there is
> more than meets the eye when it comes to this unfortunate
> circumstance.

Mondial did not think about the operator, only the ride.

> To just touch on the touchy issue, should a mentally
> disabled person have been allowed to ride the Top Scan in
> the first place? I personally do not think so. I mean, even
> a slow moving ride like the Scenic Skyway at Knoebels has
> seen an incident of this sort (to a much lesser degree and
> not resulting in a death of course).

Again, something a seat belt could have done to make sure that the safety restraint was down far enough without either the rider or the attendant using their own judgement.

> Also, in trying to support your OPINION, at least post an
> accurate photo- the photo you posted was not even that of
> the Adventureland ride!

If you want me to hunt down a photo of the Top Scan at Adventureland just do a search on Google and you'll see a bunch of them. I was just trying to find one at the same angle as the PCW one. I can assure you that Adventureland did not have a seat belt installed.

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by dioncini at 9/7/05 9:55:07 PM

Oh would you look here now. Another Top Scan with seat belts installed. This is not from PCW as PCW's Top Scan has black seats with maroon harnesses.

Seems like there was more then one visionary out there.

Yeah these lawyers are going to have fun with this case.

That's right people ... I'm just talking out of my ass I guess.

Post Reply Reply +Quote

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by LONNOL at 9/7/05 10:36:18 PM

"That's right people ... I'm just talking out of my ass I guess."

That's the first intelligent thing you have said so far.

Adam

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by dioncini at 9/7/05 11:11:13 PM

> "That's right people ... I'm just talking out of my
> ass I guess."

> That's the first intelligent thing you have said so far.

As posted above:Just as a reminder, PCW Top Scan is the ONLY one to have seatbelts.

But the person who said this statment abovewas the intelligent one I guess. Obviously he really knew what he was talking about. Now that there are 2 with safety belts, I'm wondering when #3 is going to show up.

It's nice to know that some of you genius' think you know so much about engineering and ride design but you've seem to forget that these ride manufacturers do not engineer the ride operators which may have been the cause. Especially since there was no force open.

I'm not saying that the ride operator was responsible, I'm saying that they are given too much responsibility which could have been eliminated with a safety belt.

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by LONNOL at 9/8/05 8:14:31 AM

Granted I am not a genius that knows engineering and ride design. But after reading your comments:

"You can have all the redundancy in the world but who is going to make sure that the ride attendant is pushing down the restraint hard enough on a mentally challenged female that is overweight? The seat belt would have done the thinking for the attendant and survival for the rider."

and

"Again, something a seat belt could have done to make sure that the safety restraint was down far enough without either the rider or the attendant using their own judgement."

I wondered, aren't the Mondial restraints set up so that they only are marked as cleared at the end of the arm by a light panel, which is then relayed to the main ops board so the boom can be raised (it can spin, but can't be raised, when unlocked). From what I know about the ride, the PLC's in the restraint system already do what you are saying a seatbelt would, ensure that the restraint is lowered a certain distance before allowing the arm to be released as "locked", which then allows the ride to operate (much in the same way the KMG Afterburner's computer understands a ride as locked). So, currently as I understand it, each restraint has to be lowered a certain distance to clear the arm and the ride can only run when each arm is cleared. Doesn't this system already take the responsibility out of the ride operator's hands?

Adam

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by dioncini at 9/8/05 8:15:24 AM

Just found out MORE information from PCW spokesperson.

The Shockwave (PCW's Top Scan) had seat belts installed specifically to determine the maximum distance the shoulder harness can be opened, not to satisfy their insurance which was stated earlier.

Now I've seen lots of rides that say if your too big, you don't ride. These disclaimers are on just about every park in USA now somewhere, on tickets or on signs.

In this case the person was not only mentally challenged, but 250 pounds as well. The determining factor should not be left up to the ride operator on a ride that throws -4 G's. In this case, once again, could have been avoided if the determining factor was the seat belts.

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by dioncini at 9/8/05 8:22:46 AM

>Doesn't this system already take the responsibility out of the ride operator's hands?

It sure does! But where is the redundancy? What non electronic device makes ABSOLUTE certain that the shoulder restraint has been lowered enough? Easy ... the seat belt which is installed on at least 2 Top Scans.

I mean how blind can some of you be!

1. There was no force open.
2. She was not sitting on either end to slip out the sides.
3. She was 250 lbs.

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by LONNOL at 9/8/05 8:59:07 AM

I guess I don't understand. The restraint would have been in the same position with or without the seatbelt. The woman would have been dead with or without the seatbelt as, according to you, PCW said that the seat belt is there to determine distance, not act as a safety restraint. What would be different?

Adam

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by loriu loriu Profile at 9/8/05 9:40:01 AM

> Just found out MORE information from PCW spokesperson.

Have you been talking to the Dippin' Dots guy again? ;)

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by CoasterFanatic CoasterFanatic Profile at 9/8/05 11:00:33 AM

> Just found out MORE information from PCW spokesperson.

> The Shockwave (PCW's Top Scan) had seat belts installed
> specifically to determine the maximum distance the shoulder
> harness can be opened, not to satisfy their insurance which
> was stated earlier.

> Now I've seen lots of rides that say if your too big, you
> don't ride. These disclaimers are on just about every park
> in USA now somewhere, on tickets or on signs.

> In this case the person was not only mentally challenged,
> but 250 pounds as well. The determining factor should not
> be left up to the ride operator on a ride that throws -4
> G's. In this case, once again, could have been avoided if
> the determining factor was the seat belts.

Shut up~ If you've done anything, It's prove you don't know Jack about the ride or what happened.

250pds or 350pds shouldn't matter as long as the restraint locked and the systems showed it did or the ride wouldn't have started.

Now there are many factors that could have caused this to happen such as worn parts or something (Not that Im saying this is what happened) But the fact is, The only ones that know for certain are OSHA and whoever else does investigations into this.

Chuck about sick of people pointing fingers without any facts.

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by dioncini at 9/8/05 11:43:50 AM

> I guess I don't understand. The restraint would have been
> in the same position with or without the seatbelt. The
> woman would have been dead with or without the seatbelt as,
> according to you, PCW said that the seat belt is there to
> determine distance, not act as a safety restraint. What
> would be different?

But who is to say that the seat belt would not have saved her life or that the electronics did not fail? A normal seat belt can hold about more then 5000 pounds of force which is 20 G's of her weight. Are we to assume that a Mondial seatbelt will not hold one fifth of what a typical car restraint would hold? Either way it could have easily saved her life.

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by LONNOL at 9/8/05 12:01:44 PM

> But who is to say that the seat belt would not have saved
> her life or that the electronics did not fail? A normal
> seat belt can hold about more then 5000 pounds of force
> which is 20 G's of her weight. Are we to assume that a
> Mondial seatbelt will not hold one fifth of what a typical
> car restraint would hold? Either way it could have easily
> saved her life.

I never said the control system did not fail, that is definitley a possibility. I am also not assuming that the seat belt could have held her. I haven't seen specs. on what this particular seat belt and its attachment points can hold.

On a totally unrelated note, may I ask what your interest in the accident is? I can either guess that you're an enthusiast who is contacting the parks to talk about the accident or someone involved in the scene and posting on a message board. Either way it seems kind of strange.

Adam

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by CoasterFanatic CoasterFanatic Profile at 9/8/05 1:37:56 PM

> But who is to say that the seat belt would not have saved
> her life or that the electronics did not fail? A normal
> seat belt can hold about more then 5000 pounds of force
> which is 20 G's of her weight. Are we to assume that a
> Mondial seatbelt will not hold one fifth of what a typical
> car restraint would hold? Either way it could have easily
> saved her life.

> I never said the control system did not fail, that is
> definitley a possibility. I am also not assuming that the
> seat belt could have held her. I haven't seen specs. on
> what this particular seat belt and its attachment points
> can hold.

> On a totally unrelated note, may I ask what your interest
> in the accident is? I can either guess that you're an
> enthusiast who is contacting the parks to talk about the
> accident or someone involved in the scene and posting on a
> message board. Either way it seems kind of strange.

> Adam

No Adam, He's just acussing, placing blame and pissing people off claiming he knows what he's talking about.

Chuck, who maintains that no park or manufacturer would knowingly put anyone in danger, For their own good.

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by dioncini at 9/8/05 1:59:46 PM

> I never said the control system did not fail, that is
> definitley a possibility. I am also not assuming that the
> seat belt could have held her. I haven't seen specs. on
> what this particular seat belt and its attachment points
> can hold.

Well I have. I've ridden both PCW's Shockwave and Adventurelands Top Scan. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that they are going to be able to handle a certain amount of force if they are stressed upon. Otherwise they could have used a string and a button snap.

> On a totally unrelated note, may I ask what your interest
> in the accident is? I can either guess that you're an
> enthusiast who is contacting the parks to talk about the
> accident or someone involved in the scene and posting on a
> message board. Either way it seems kind of strange.

Who am I? Your asking why someone would be concerned about the safety of someone's life? Your asking why that I am posting information on a forum revolved around amusement parks?

How about that I'm just pissed and have every right to be pissed. I'm really pissed because this ride is no normal flat ride, it's throws lots of positive and negative G's and lateral G's as well. It can have all the damn redundancy in the world and perfect mechanics, but something as simple as placing those seat belts like 2 other Top Scans had in place could have saved that persons life.

If you don't like to read what I have to say don't come back to this thread, simple.

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by LONNOL at 9/8/05 2:12:10 PM

> Who am I? Your asking why someone would be concerned about
> the safety of someone's life? Your asking why that I am
> posting information on a forum revolved around amusement
> parks?

No, I am asking why you seem to have such an unhealthy obsession with something that

> How about that I'm just pissed and have every right to be
> pissed. I'm really pissed because this ride is no normal
> flat ride, it's throws lots of positive and negative G's
> and lateral G's as well. It can have all the damn
> redundancy in the world and perfect mechanics, but
> something as simple as placing those seat belts like 2
> other Top Scans had in place could have saved that persons
> life.

I am happy you are such an emotional fella and, as you put it, "pissed". I am saddened every time someone dies on an amusement ride, but I still haven't felt the need to insert myself into an official investigation like you have. It seems obsessive compulsive for an enthusiast. I would think that all of the organizations previously mentioned, combined with the lawyers you relish, could handle a ride investigation without your assistance.

> If you don't like to read what I have to say don't come
> back to this thread, simple.

Thanks. But the moment I start taking directions from people who instruct people on what to do through enthusiast message boards I know my life will truly be empty. I do, however, wish you luck on your pissed quest, Inspector Gadget.

Adam

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by LONNOL at 9/8/05 2:17:21 PM

> Who am I? Your asking why someone would be concerned about
> the safety of someone's life? Your asking why that I am
> posting information on a forum revolved around amusement
> parks?

No, I am asking why you seem to have such an unhealthy
obsession with something you aren't certified to investigate.

> How about that I'm just pissed and have every right to be
> pissed. I'm really pissed because this ride is no normal
> flat ride, it's throws lots of positive and negative G's
> and lateral G's as well. It can have all the damn
> redundancy in the world and perfect mechanics, but
> something as simple as placing those seat belts like 2
> other Top Scans had in place could have saved that persons
> life.

I am happy you are such an emotional fella and, as you put
it, "pissed". I am saddened every time someone
dies on an amusement ride, but I still haven't felt the
need to insert myself into an official investigation like
you have. It seems obsessive compulsive for an enthusiast.
I would think that all of the organizations previously
mentioned, combined with the lawyers you relish, could
handle a ride investigation without your assistance.

> If you don't like to read what I have to say don't come
> back to this thread, simple.

Thanks. But the moment I start taking directions from
people who instruct people on what to do through enthusiast
message boards I know my life will truly be empty. I do,
however, wish you luck on your pissed quest, Inspector
Gadget.

> Adam

Re: Top Scan Adventureland by dioncini at 9/8/05 5:30:16 PM

> I am happy you are such an emotional fella and, as you put
> it, "pissed". I am saddened every time someone
> dies on an amusement ride, but I still haven't felt the
> need to insert myself into an official investigation like
> you have. It seems obsessive compulsive for an enthusiast.

So you have to be an extremist/enthusiast to post on this site now? You can't just be joe concerned citizen? I don't recall having been sworn in before I joined this site and pledged my allegiance to the enthusiast god.

> Thanks. But the moment I start taking directions from
> people who instruct people on what to do through enthusiast
> message boards I know my life will truly be empty. I do,
> however, wish you luck on your pissed quest, Inspector
> Gadget.

Well then I hope you enjoy what you read then, obviously it intrigues you enough to come back for more!

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by CoasterFanatic CoasterFanatic Profile at 9/8/05 5:45:05 PM

> I never said the control system did not fail, that is
> definitley a possibility. I am also not assuming that the
> seat belt could have held her. I haven't seen specs. on
> what this particular seat belt and its attachment points
> can hold.

> Well I have. I've ridden both PCW's Shockwave and
> Adventurelands Top Scan. It doesn't take a rocket scientist
> to figure out that they are going to be able to handle a
> certain amount of force if they are stressed upon.
> Otherwise they could have used a string and a button snap.

> On a totally unrelated note, may I ask what your interest
> in the accident is? I can either guess that you're an
> enthusiast who is contacting the parks to talk about the
> accident or someone involved in the scene and posting on a
> message board. Either way it seems kind of strange.

> Who am I? Your asking why someone would be concerned about
> the safety of someone's life? Your asking why that I am
> posting information on a forum revolved around amusement
> parks?

> How about that I'm just pissed and have every right to be
> pissed. I'm really pissed because this ride is no normal
> flat ride, it's throws lots of positive and negative G's
> and lateral G's as well. It can have all the damn
> redundancy in the world and perfect mechanics, but
> something as simple as placing those seat belts like 2
> other Top Scans had in place could have saved that persons
> life.

> If you don't like to read what I have to say don't come
> back to this thread, simple.

You can't prove that and on several rides a belt is only there as a measure. You claim 250 pds as a reason but most high school football players are that size. I rode the dang thing at 300pds So what?

Something failed and your just placing blame and there is no proof out there that that belt would have changed a thing, Perhaps she was thrown latterally out or something?

Fact is, You don't have the facts and till you do. It's not nice placing blame when im sure everyone involved in any way feels about as crappy as they can.

Chuck

Re: Top Scan Adventureland by CoasterFanatic CoasterFanatic Profile at 9/8/05 5:48:49 PM

> I am happy you are such an emotional fella and, as you put
> it, "pissed". I am saddened every time someone
> dies on an amusement ride, but I still haven't felt the
> need to insert myself into an official investigation like
> you have. It seems obsessive compulsive for an enthusiast.

> So you have to be an extremist/enthusiast to post on this
> site now? You can't just be joe concerned citizen? I don't
> recall having been sworn in before I joined this site and
> pledged my allegiance to the enthusiast god.

> Thanks. But the moment I start taking directions from
> people who instruct people on what to do through enthusiast
> message boards I know my life will truly be empty. I do,
> however, wish you luck on your pissed quest, Inspector
> Gadget.

> Well then I hope you enjoy what you read then, obviously it
> intrigues you enough to come back for more!
>

PLONK

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by dioncini at 9/8/05 9:56:28 PM

> You can't prove that and on several rides a belt is only
> there as a measure. You claim 250 pds as a reason but most
> high school football players are that size. I rode the dang
> thing at 300pds So what?

A 250 pound woman is shaped much different then a 250 pound man, this is a fact. If you need to see the data just say so.

> Something failed and your just placing blame and there is
> no proof out there that that belt would have changed a
> thing, Perhaps she was thrown latterally out or something?

No proof that seatbelts can save lives? Funny lots of car manufacturers think different. I'm not saying "do" save lives, I'm saying "can" save lives. Guess we'll just have to wait for next time I guess.

> Fact is, You don't have the facts and till you do. It's not
> nice placing blame when im sure everyone involved in any
> way feels about as crappy as they can.

I mean they are talking 10-25k dead down south and all the media and politicians are pointing fingers of who is the bad guy and nobody is even blaming the hurricane. Seems like a lot of people are forgetting that the hurricane was the cause of the disaster in the first place. But if they would have acted on their safety measures in the first place a lot more lives would have been saved.

I'm just one guy with one voice and if Mondial is reading this I hope they are taking the responsibility of being proactive against the next time. Obviously other owners of Top Scans decided seat belts are a good idea and I think that ALL of them would be a good idea.

Again if you don't like what I have to say I could really care less, but I know for a fact others are reading this and are caring as I could show you some of the emails I have gotten so far.

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by The_New_Reverend at 9/9/05 1:38:43 AM

> Just found out MORE information from PCW spokesperson.

> Have you been talking to the Dippin' Dots guy again? ;)

I hope you don't mind me asking, but: Who IS the dippin' dots guy? I used to think it was Mike (Cortexbomb?) but I'm out of the loop about it being someone else. Just wondering.
-Rev

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by loriu loriu Profile at 9/9/05 8:54:37 AM

> Just found out MORE information from PCW spokesperson.

> Have you been talking to the Dippin' Dots guy again? ;)

> I hope you don't mind me asking, but: Who IS the dippin'
> dots guy? I used to think it was Mike (Cortexbomb?) but I'm
> out of the loop about it being someone else. Just
> wondering.
> -Rev

Come on Rev. You know the Dippin' Dots guy at ANY park knows everything that is going in their park. Don't believe me, next time you are at Calico, just ask the Dippin' Dot guy what the new inflatable is for next year.

Re: Top Scanhttp: Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by dioncini at 9/9/05 12:07:31 PM

Only gets better! Too much responsibilty for the ride operators not to have backup seat belts.

http://www.nydailynews.com/boroughs/story/344650p-294256c.html

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by dioncini at 9/9/05 12:18:47 PM

Here is my favorite line from the news article above

"She told me, 'Oh no, we gotta a green light. It's okay.' And they just let the ride go."

Let's here is for them perfect green lights!

Re: Top Scanhttp: Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by KevinReid KevinReid Profile at 9/9/05 12:46:45 PM

> Only gets better! Too much responsibilty for the ride
> operators not to have backup seat belts.

This article say nothing and does not support your point one bit. Are you going to tell me that you have never been at park and never once seen a person/ride question the operator about the restraint not being locked tight enough? Come on? No difference in this newspaper article. The ride operators are trained to go by green lights what else do you expect?

Like LONNOL I am just not sure why you keep beating this dead horse?

Kevin User Submitted Picture

PCW Junkies - Ultimate PCW Guide

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by Doms_slave_girl at 9/9/05 1:11:56 PM

I have been reading this forum for a few years and lurking. And this is just ridiculous. A person died and you aren't respecting the investigation by beating it like a dead horse. I don't get it. Some newer flats don't have seatbelts. Take the Zamperela Hawk. They don't need the seatbelts, it has a locking system. Why should it need seatbelts? I just don't understand your need to keep inquiring about such a heart-breaking story.

Please just move on, parks have accidents all the time, some you never hear about, but I just think you need to chill out and keep you retched opinions to yourself.

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by The_New_Reverend at 9/9/05 5:01:34 PM

> Just found out MORE information from PCW spokesperson.

> Have you been talking to the Dippin' Dots guy again? ;)

> I hope you don't mind me asking, but: Who IS the dippin'
> dots guy? I used to think it was Mike (Cortexbomb?) but I'm
> out of the loop about it being someone else. Just
> wondering.
> -Rev

> Come on Rev. You know the Dippin' Dots guy at ANY park
> knows everything that is going in their park. Don't believe
> me, next time you are at Calico, just ask the Dippin' Dot
> guy what the new inflatable is for next year.

I guess I didn't realize that. The only problem is that when I was at Calico... there were no dippin' dots guys. Nothing.
Not even someone taking tickets at the front gate.

What I'd give to have met a dippin' dots guy who could tell me all.

There's this gal named Beth who knows all, too. Do you suppose she's the dippin' dots GAL?

-Rev

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by dioncini at 9/9/05 5:03:02 PM

> I have been reading this forum for a few years and lurking.
> And this is just ridiculous. A person died and you aren't
> respecting the investigation by beating it like a dead
> horse. I don't get it. Some newer flats don't have
> seatbelts. Take the Zamperela Hawk. They don't need the
> seatbelts, it has a locking system. Why should it need
> seatbelts? I just don't understand your need to keep
> inquiring about such a heart-breaking story.

I've ridden thousands of rides, and nothing is like the Top Scan. I've also ridden the Hawk I believe in Dorney Park and that only pulls positive G's. The Top Scan pulls positive, negative and lateral G's. It should have had seat belts put on every one of them like the other 2 that I've found with seat belts. Have you ever ridden the Top Scan? The only way to be ejected without a force open in the seat she was in is out the bottom where a seat belt would have held.

> Please just move on, parks have accidents all the time,
> some you never hear about, but I just think you need to
> chill out and keep you retched opinions to yourself.

Keep my opinions to myself, no way. I'm pissed off customer of Adventureland who happened to ride the Top Scan only weeks before.

I'm sorry for the persons involved that may be reading this, but this is a free forum to speak your mind and that's what I'm doing. Seems like other people want to debate this with me and I'm all for it ... so keep it coming!!!

Re: Top Scanhttp: Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by The_New_Reverend at 9/9/05 5:13:39 PM

> Only gets better! Too much responsibilty for the ride
> operators not to have backup seat belts.

>
> http://www.nydailynews.com/boroughs/story/344650p-294256c.html

Hey D,

Others might've touched on this (I haven't read everything on this thread) but... out of curiosity - are you typically this hands-on into all the coaster/park related deaths that happen?

Or is there something about this one that... makes it kind've personal?

Just wondering.

-rev

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by loriu loriu Profile at 9/9/05 8:08:35 PM

> There's this gal named Beth who knows all, too. Do you
> suppose she's the dippin' dots GAL?

> -Rev

I don't know. Maybe you should Ask Beth.

Re: Top Scanhttp: Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by dioncini at 9/9/05 11:11:59 PM

> Others might've touched on this (I haven't read everything
> on this thread) but... out of curiosity - are you typically
> this hands-on into all the coaster/park related deaths that
> happen?

> Or is there something about this one that... makes it
> kind've personal?

> Just wondering.

Yip. I've never posted about a death on any other forum before this one and it's personal because Top Scan has a design flaw on the one's that do not have a seat belt installed. I don't care what green lights tell operators who are barely out of high school and hold the destiny of a persons life in their hands. There should be extra measures taken on violent flats like this ride, and for lots of reasons mentioned.

If someone gets burnt for this accident and burnt bad, so be it, they deserve it. Poor judgement on their behalf.

An ejection death without any clear eveidence of failure is a serious death. It's not like a slip or someone getting killed because of failed brakes. It's something that can easily be avioded by taking the proactive safety measures with something like a seatbelt especially on a ride that throws G's violently in all directions.

Some Top Scans with seat belts and some without make ABSOLUTE no sense.

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by coolcat13 at 9/10/05 1:49:26 PM

I really don't want to sound heartless, but does anyone know what's happening as far as the investigations are conserned?

Are other Mondial Top Scans closed?

Any info would be greatly appriciated. As well, this is a sad accident....ACCIDENT....no-one should be putting blame on anyone until all the details come. Just give respects to the family and others effected.

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by dioncini at 9/11/05 6:54:46 AM

> I really don't want to sound heartless, but does anyone
> know what's happening as far as the investigations are
> conserned?

> Are other Mondial Top Scans closed?

> Any info would be greatly appriciated. As well, this is a
> sad accident....ACCIDENT....no-one should be putting blame
> on anyone until all the details come. Just give respects to
> the family and others effected.

It's still under investigation and it's still closed. I'm not sure about other Top Scans. The last word is that there is no clear evidence of how this happened.

For some reason the clueless people on this board just don't understand that if there is no clear evidence of failure that failure then gets placed on the rides design. Because if there was an ejection, there was failure. PERIOD.

The worst part about this whole things is what they are going to do now with the other Top Scans? Are they going to retrofit them now that they've had their first "mystery" death? It's a catch 22 for them if they do and if they don't. If they do they admit to guilt, if they don't they are going to lose customers. I don't think a retrofitted seat belt is going to be put into the responsibility of the park owners, but who knows. I know if I owned that ride I would tell them they would be responsible for the seat belt, not me.

Also as far as respect for the deceased, I have much. Some of you who just tell me to shut up and get off the board can just basically KMA. If I didn't care about the deceased or other potential deceased then I would not be here.

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by chillforce chillforce Profile at 9/11/05 3:21:42 PM

Why am I getting the feeling that this is an idiot from this self described Ridesafety group that is a complete and total sham but they love to stir controversey when there is none? Obviously this is an individual with a lot more than a passing interest in something like this, it is more of an obsession, a very unhealthy one.

Ed

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by NbAs32 NbAs32 Profile at 9/11/05 4:44:18 PM

> Why am I getting the feeling that this is an idiot from
> this self described Ridesafety group that is a complete and
> total sham but they love to stir controversey when there is
> none?

IMO, people from Ridesafety groups and things like that will one day destroy the Amusement Industry in the future if specimens like the one we have on our hands here continue to go out of thier league. The only thing these busybodys do is create an unnecessary ruckus.

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by dioncini at 9/11/05 8:59:45 PM

Ridesafety group?

Ha ... think I have better things in life to do then lobby for a ride safety group.

I know that in general that rides are pretty darn safe. Ever since I rode the Top Scan I was pretty cool with the thousands of rides I've been on before. Been on some ones that could use improvements on safety, but nothing too bad.

This one just shocked me more then any other becuase I had only ridden it days before and was really surprised no one was ever killed before.

I was back at Adventureland again today, Top Scan still down. However the other ride where the employee was killed, the Ladybug was running normally. Funny how the one that was running was the one that was a REAL accident.

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by Absimilliard Absimilliard Profile at 9/11/05 9:13:45 PM

Real Accident? Wow... that was cold.

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by dioncini at 9/11/05 10:49:11 PM

What's so cold about it? It's just reality. The accident with the Ladybug was someone just being in the wrong place at the wrong time, an accident.

The incident with the Top Scan could have been easily been prevented and they knew it could have easily been prevented and they KNEW THIS by putting seat belts on some of the Top Scans.

You can have 15 points of redundancy on the shoulder harness but they are all on the same moving part so how does that make it redundant? I'm sorry but you people don't know crap about redundancy or engineering.

THE TOP SCAN WAS FLAWED AND THEY KNEW IT!

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by Absimilliard Absimilliard Profile at 9/11/05 11:29:55 PM

What's cold is that we have 2 accidents here, except in your mind, there's only one. When we know all the facts about the Top Scan accident, then we'll be able to discuss it. At this point, all you're doing is building a conspiration theory.

Glad he's gone :) NM *NM* by CoasterFanatic CoasterFanatic Profile at 9/13/05 8:07:31 PM

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by Eric_Gieszl Eric_Gieszl Profile at 9/13/05 9:40:02 PM

> THE TOP SCAN WAS FLAWED AND THEY KNEW IT!

I have a couple of questions about you.

Why do you care so much about this accident? Also, what qualifies you to make such a conclusion (referring to your statement that this Top Scan was flawed)? What is your expertise?

Frankly, I don't get your beef. Do you hate the park? Is this some sort of revenge tactic? As others have pointed out seat belts are often added by the park and are often not original equipment from the ride manufacturer.

Eric

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by dioncini at 9/14/05 4:53:50 PM

> Why do you care so much about this accident? Also, what
> qualifies you to make such a conclusion (referring to your
> statement that this Top Scan was flawed)? What is your
> expertise?

An expert? No but I do have common sense and I have ridden both Top Scan PCW and Top Scan Adventureland. My fiance has ridden both rides and she feels the same way that the ride should have had a seat belt installed.

I do know a lot more about this case then some of you think I do. I've been in contact with every agency working on this case and several times each. They still have not found a defect in the ride, it ran perfectly. But the big mystery is how someone was thrown from a perfectly operating ride to their death and there can only be one explanation, flaw in the design due to failure of the design. If you've ridden both Top Scan PCW and Top Scan Adventureland and do not feel this way then please state your case, because I would REALLLLLY like to debate you.

> Frankly, I don't get your beef. Do you hate the park? Is
> this some sort of revenge tactic? As others have pointed
> out seat belts are often added by the park and are often
> not original equipment from the ride manufacturer.

Beef? Your kidding right. Someone was killed, I have no beef. I just know that a lot of people are trying to cover their asses from a lawsuit and that's ok, that's America. Also you people have no clue why some parks put the seat belts on these Top Scans and some don't, but obviously since someone is dead, they should have ALL HAD SEATBELTS!

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by willb_43213 willb_43213 Profile at 9/14/05 10:43:37 PM

> What's so cold about it? It's just reality. The accident
> with the Ladybug was someone just being in the wrong place
> at the wrong time, an accident.

> The incident with the Top Scan could have been easily been
> prevented and they knew it could have easily been prevented
> and they KNEW THIS by putting seat belts on some of the Top
> Scans.

> You can have 15 points of redundancy on the shoulder
> harness but they are all on the same moving part so how
> does that make it redundant? I'm sorry but you people don't
> know crap about redundancy or engineering.

> THE TOP SCAN WAS FLAWED AND THEY KNEW IT!

If you KNEW it was unsafe, why did you ride it?

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by SirWillow SirWillow Profile at 9/16/05 7:37:13 AM

> Why do you care so much about this accident? Also, what
> qualifies you to make such a conclusion (referring to your
> statement that this Top Scan was flawed)? What is your
> expertise?

> An expert? No but I do have common sense and I have ridden
> both Top Scan PCW and Top Scan Adventureland. My fiance has
> ridden both rides and she feels the same way that the ride
> should have had a seat belt installed.

> Beef? Your kidding right. Someone was killed, I have no
> beef.

Then it must be obvious to everyone but you that you certainly have something much more personally involved in this incident than every other incident out there. You haven't carried on about ANY other ride accident or related death. In fact, I don't think you've posted on any other thread discussing one.

But this one, you're ranting, ranting, and in many cases just going plain overboard in your reaction to it. Why not about the 7 year old killed recently? Why not over the Cali Screaming crash?

In other words, stop kidding yourself and get down to the real issue here, because it's not just because someone was killed. There's something personal with this specific ride and/ or this specific park as opposed to every other one. And that's where you're not fooling anyone. What's your real agenda, because it's NOT ride safety in general.

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by dioncini at 9/17/05 9:45:59 AM

> Then it must be obvious to everyone but you that you
> certainly have something much more personally involved in
> this incident than every other incident out there. You
> haven't carried on about ANY other ride accident or related
> death. In fact, I don't think you've posted on any other
> thread discussing one.

> But this one, you're ranting, ranting, and in many cases
> just going plain overboard in your reaction to it. Why not
> about the 7 year old killed recently? Why not over the Cali
> Screaming crash?

> In other words, stop kidding yourself and get down to the
> real issue here, because it's not just because someone was
> killed. There's something personal with this specific ride
> and/ or this specific park as opposed to every other one.
> And that's where you're not fooling anyone. What's your
> real agenda, because it's NOT ride safety in general.

I have nothing to gain or lose with this thread. I have no friggin agenda give me a break. I don't know about the Cali Screaming accident but I do know about the 7 yr old killed at Rye.

We know how exactly how the 7 year old was killed. He got up out of his seat, pretty simple and a textbook case of someone leaving the ride.

This was MUCH different. This person WAS EJECTED from the ride and they still to this day have not determined the cause. This is completely different. This is ride design flaw and I know EXACLY WHY as I have ridden both rides.

My question is, have you ridden both rides?

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by dougr at 9/18/05 1:37:04 PM

> I have been reading this forum for a few years and lurking.
> And this is just ridiculous. A person died and you aren't
> respecting the investigation by beating it like a dead
> horse. I don't get it. Some newer flats don't have
> seatbelts. Take the Zamperela Hawk. They don't need the
> seatbelts, it has a locking system. Why should it need
> seatbelts? I just don't understand your need to keep
> inquiring about such a heart-breaking story.

> Please just move on, parks have accidents all the time,
> some you never hear about, but I just think you need to
> chill out and keep you retched opinions to yourself.

>
There was a fatality on a Zamperela Hawk in Tennessee about a year ago when a rider's restraint failed. Apparently someone had put jumpers across the safety system because it had been giving "too many" error messages.
Those seat belts are really just another redundent system-since they are slack most of the time, they really don't detract from the ride, but when you really need them, they provide an extra layer of protection.
I know I appreciated them being there on the Twin Flip: User Submitted Picture

Operator sentenced for role in woman's death

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by dioncini at 9/22/05 1:33:43 PM

> There was a fatality on a Zamperela Hawk in Tennessee about
> a year ago when a rider's restraint failed. Apparently
> someone had put jumpers across the safety system because it
> had been giving "too many" error messages.
> Those seat belts are really just another redundent
> system-since they are slack most of the time, they really
> don't detract from the ride, but when you really need them,
> they provide an extra layer of protection.

You're exactly right and it was completely irresposible for Mondial not to put those seatbelts on EVERY Top Scan, not just some. It doesn't matter how many redundant triple safety locks you have, especially when all redundant systems are located on the exact same pivot point.

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by dioncini at 10/21/05 8:59:04 AM

Not surprisingly there is still no determination of why or how the person was thrown from the Top Scan. Heck maybe this one will just be forgotten and next year when they re-open all will be peachy keen.

But the big question of the day is will the Top Scan still be there and if so, will seat belts, which most of you think that this POS ride does not need, will be in place.

Catch 22 maybe? Either way it will be fun to learn what happens to what the New York Post refers to as the "Death Park".

http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/55458.htm

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by SirWillow SirWillow Profile at 10/21/05 12:40:02 PM

With only 3 exceptions, this is the only thread that you've ever posted on here. Don't you have something else to do besides shove your little crusade here for something just about everyone but you agrees is needless?

Seriously, it's time to move yourself on to something else in life. Because the way you're letting this pointless little obsession of yours control you is really starting to get sad.

Re: Top Scan Adventureland (Long Island NY) death was no accident by chillforce chillforce Profile at 10/21/05 8:25:41 PM

Once again the intelligence level is shown. The NY Post is excellent for Headlines, (e.g. "Headless Body found in Topless Bar") but they will skewer a story to the brink of yellow journalisim if they feel that the story will sell papers. The News is not much better but at least it is a step above the Post.

As for how the ride will reopen, if you knew anyone at the park and what they really feel, you would know. It was nice to have ride ops thank me for my defense of the park and the ride. I know what is going to happen for next year. Please take your stupidity back to the land of hate, wherever you live that is and stop hurting and causing pain to a lot of young people who run ops trying to make people happy. Your ignorance is not appreciated.

Ed