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Ultimate Rollercoaster > Discussion Forums > Europe Coasters, Parks & Attractions > Thorpe 2009... Please No!

Thorpe 2009... Please No!

Posted: 10/12/07 at 11:27:25 AM
Views: 2550

I've just seen an awful rumour on Screamscape that the 2009 coaster could be a Gerstlauer Euro Fighter! Allegedly, they don't like the price tag of the B&M flyer.

Compact Euro Fighters have a place, and that's at small parks and seaside parks. (In my opinion, the large ones don't have a place.) It would be shameful for Thorpe to copy Oakwoood and Adventure Island!

All respect to Gerstlauer, but in this specific context:

B&M = top class
Euro Fighter = chavvy

I know not everyone likes flying coasters, but there are other coasters that would be better than a Euro Fighter - a junior hyper, for instance. If Thorpe builds this, they would be being outdone by small Dutch and Danish parks like Toverland and Djurs Sommerland. We're already embarrassed by all the Spanish, Dutch, German and Scandinavian (all of it) parks. What is this country coming to?!!

Taste, man, taste!

Re: Thorpe 2009... Please No! by TrickTrack TrickTrack Profile at 10/12/07 11:41:06 AM

Don´t you think there is a chance that they would theme this thing at least a little bit, maybe a la Mystery Mine?
You really can´t compare the latter to the fairground-esque compact "Chavlauers".

Re: Thorpe 2009... Please No! by Graeme Graeme Profile at 10/12/07 12:12:40 PM

> Don´t you think there is a chance that they would theme
> this thing at least a little bit, maybe a la Mystery Mine?

I don't think there is a big chance they will theme it well. Even if they did, I think it's more important for Thorpe and Alton to put in the right ride systems (ie. smooth, top class, high-capacity).

> You really can´t compare the latter to the
> fairground-esque compact "Chavlauers".

Well, I can see why you think that, but I'm not really being snobby in that way. It's more the intimidation factor of the vertical lift hill.

I hate to criticise Gerstlauer - I just think if Thorpe built one it would be because they expect chavs to say to each other "I dare you to go on that". In my opinion, coasters should not be about "dares" or intimidation - they should be about the fine and noble art of creating a pleasureable experience, like woodies, junior hypers, flying coasters etc.

Thorpe have already put a foot wrong when, instead of creating an elegant B&M looper, they went for the "10-inversions" record instead - pointless!

They already have their "extreme" ride - Stealth. That should stay the only one.

Re: Thorpe 2009... Please No! by Hurri Hurri Profile at 10/12/07 6:50:22 PM

I've heard the theming budget is higher than the machine budget, in which case this is going to be the best Eurofighter in the world.

...or a really well themed piece of crap.

* This Post Has Been Modified *

Re: Thorpe 2009... Yee-e-ah! by Corkscrew_Foley Corkscrew_Foley Profile at 10/13/07 10:53:52 AM

Okay, this is in no way to wind up Graeme, I'm being honest this time folks, seriously! I think this is great! As everyone knows, I was have been groaning about the B&M flyer for ages now, and I think that the Gerstlauer (not chavlauer (Grrrr!) Euro Fighter will be a great, and different ride.
Now if this was a Gersty Bobsled, Graeme, would be jumping up and down, praising Thorpe for getting it right, hell I'd even join in, but I'm already jumping up and down already. :)

Tim.

Re: Thorpe 2009... by Graeme Graeme Profile at 10/14/07 9:10:31 AM

> Okay, this is in no way to wind up Graeme, I'm being honest
> this time folks, seriously! I think this is great! As
> everyone knows, I was have been groaning about the B&M
> flyer for ages now, and I think that the Gerstlauer (not
> chavlauer (Grrrr!) Euro Fighter will be a great, and
> different ride.

Have you been on a B&M flyer, Tim? Air is excellent.

> Now if this was a Gersty Bobsled, Graeme, would be jumping
> up and down, praising Thorpe for getting it right, hell I'd
> even join in, but I'm already jumping up and down already.
> :)

Well, that's not quite true. I'd be happier, yes, because it'd be something I'd want to ride, but I doubt I'd say it was right for Thorpe. I've always said Tussauds parks should go for best-of-the-best, high-capacity ride systems.

There are two main reasons why I'm not happy about this:

1) The disappointment. A B&M Flyer has been a very strong rumour since 2003. In 2006, it was even rumoured to be a Floorless (even better)! It seems they've changed their minds at the last minute.

2) The implications. If Merlin have rejected a B&M Flyer on grounds of cost, think what that means... It's the end of B&M in the UK.

Re: Thorpe 2009... by Corkscrew_Foley Corkscrew_Foley Profile at 10/14/07 3:52:13 PM

> Okay, this is in no way to wind up Graeme, I'm being honest
> this time folks, seriously! I think this is great! As
> everyone knows, I was have been groaning about the B&M
> flyer for ages now, and I think that the Gerstlauer (not
> chavlauer (Grrrr!) Euro Fighter will be a great, and
> different ride.

> Have you been on a B&M flyer, Tim? Air is excellent.

Nope, just a Vekoma flyer. My beef with the B&M flyer for Thorpe was the fact it was probably going to be the Superman clone, and I hope hoping for something a bit more original for Thorpe. Reagardless, they should actually be focusing on another sitdown non-looper.

> Now if this was a Gersty Bobsled, Graeme, would be jumping
> up and down, praising Thorpe for getting it right, hell I'd
> even join in, but I'm already jumping up and down already.
> :)

> Well, that's not quite true. I'd be happier, yes, because
> it'd be something I'd want to ride, but I doubt I'd say it
> was right for Thorpe. I've always said Tussauds parks
> should go for best-of-the-best, high-capacity ride systems.

> There are two main reasons why I'm not happy about this:

> 1) The disappointment. A B&M Flyer has been a very strong
> rumour since 2003. In 2006, it was even rumoured to be a
> Floorless (even better)! It seems they've changed their
> minds at the last minute.

> 2) The implications. If Merlin have rejected a B&M Flyer on
> grounds of cost, think what that means... It's the end of
> B&M in the UK.

I can see what you're getting at, but think about this, yes a Euro Fighter is a lower capacity than a flyer, but who says that they might not do the dual loading stations, and second of all, flyers aren't what's hot right now, the Euro Fighters are the hot commodity.
I do understand your frustration though.

Tim.

Re: Thorpe 2009... by brad brad Profile at 10/14/07 5:43:08 PM

I personally think that a eurofighter will be quite good only if they theme it extremely well and the capacity is large. If it suffers the same problems as spinball whizzer at alton towers and generally has a very large queue then i dont see the point.
You would have thought tussauds/merlin would have learned from that.

I would prefer a B&M by far, especially a flying, floorless or hyper, but i guess we'll have to wait a while for that ;)

Re: Thorpe 2009... by brad brad Profile at 10/15/07 3:38:22 AM

I've just found something very interesting thanks to the guys at coasterforce. I think your dreams are going to come true after all Graeme. John Wardley (the legend himself) is involved in the future 2009 coaster for thorpe park. There is no way he would work with gerstlauer....therefore it has to be a B&M of some sort. Possibly a flyer. Follow the link:

http://www.john-wardley.demon.co.uk/

Click on the biography section and then scroll down to the bottom...it will tell you there.

Brad

Re: Thorpe 2009... by Graeme Graeme Profile at 10/15/07 10:12:51 AM

Tim:
Nope, just a Vekoma flyer. My beef with the B&M flyer for
> Thorpe was the fact it was probably going to be the
> Superman clone, and I hope hoping for something a bit more
> original for Thorpe. Reagardless, they should actually be
> focusing on another sitdown non-looper.

The rumour was that it had a pretzel loop, but was not a clone. It was actually meant to be a very large ride, taking upa huge area. Ah, how I'd have loved to fly round Canada Creek...

> I can see what you're getting at, but think about this, yes
> a Euro Fighter is a lower capacity than a flyer, but who
> says that they might not do the dual loading stations, and
> second of all, flyers aren't what's hot right now, the Euro
> Fighters are the hot commodity.

Exactly. I think Thorpe should be above trends.

Brad:
> I've just found something very interesting thanks to the
> guys at coasterforce. I think your dreams are going to come
> true after all Graeme. John Wardley (the legend himself) is
> involved in the future 2009 coaster for thorpe park. There
> is no way he would work with gerstlauer....therefore it has
> to be a B&M of some sort. Possibly a flyer. Follow the
> link:

> http://www.john-wardley.demon.co.uk/ Click on the
> biography section and then scroll down to the bottom...it
> will tell you there.

Thanks very much for that, Brad. I have to say, though, I still think it will be a Euro Fighter. They can have very long, complex layouts. And if it's going to be well-themed, well, that's even more reason to suggest John Wardley would be involved in visualising it.

JW would draw the rough layout, then Gerstlauer would do the exact calculations, then suggest alternative sections of track if something wouldn't fit in.

Anyway, thanks guys for the constructive feedback and putting up with my rant! :) I must admit, I was shocked at the rumour, but c'est la vie. Gerstlauer are a better company than many. Hopefully Alton will build something nice (and frankly, I think there are a few other UK theme parks on the up anyway).

We're probably getting a much more level playing field than before. I honestly think we'll soon be at a stage where Flamingo Land's investments will be just as big as Merlin's.

Re: Thorpe 2009... by brad brad Profile at 10/15/07 10:31:12 AM

> We're probably getting a much more level playing field than
> before. I honestly think we'll soon be at a stage where
> Flamingo Land's investments will be just as big as
> Merlin's.

Or even Grevins Pleasurewood hills!! ;) Might become the british walibi world. Bring on Goliath!!! lol

Re: Thorpe 2009... by Graeme Graeme Profile at 10/15/07 11:12:29 AM

> Or even Grevins Pleasurewood hills!! ;) Might become the
> british walibi world. Bring on Goliath!!! lol

Groan! Perhaps Tim will send us Behemoth or La Ronde's Goliath. ;)

Re: Thorpe 2009... Please No! by Cal at 10/16/07 10:11:12 AM

Much as I wasn't thrilled about the flyer, I am even less thrilled at the prospect of a Eurofighter. Simply put, I don't much like 'em. They are rough and not all that thrilling. Admittedly I've only ridden Rage and Wild Svinet but I wasn't very impressed. Rage is a fine ride for Southend, but it's not good enough for Thorpe. And with a 200foot vertical drop on Stealth, why do they need one? They should be building a hyper or a woodie.

Re: Thorpe 2009... Please No! by deeve at 11/11/07 9:07:56 AM

I think thorpe needs a coaster with lots of air time. Im slightly worried about thorpe. Lets look at it closley
2002 10 looper not a bad start get the punters in.
2003 b&m inverted every good park should have one (standard issue).
2006 intamin rocket at not a bad one at that
Then problems no sorting out of x no way out. Flying fish returned and now looks like a dodgy eurofighter. Flat rides probaly the best in the uk but there not coasters. back to air time issue. Rides like maverick in cedar point are nice would look good over the lake. Hypers and speed coasters are amazing but i dont think thorpe has the capacity for another 200ft plus. Lim launch would be nice. But ultimateley a nice out and back woodie would be the best choice i think. Would theme nicely into canada creek. But it realy worries me when you also here talks of runaway trains and bobsled coasters. Im sorry if people want family crap go round the m25 to chessington they got what you need.
Eurofighter would be ok inside the x no way out tent. Theese merlin people need to fix up.

Re: Thorpe 2009... Please No! by Graeme Graeme Profile at 11/15/07 8:20:02 AM

> 2002 10 looper not a bad start get the punters in.
> 2003 b&m inverted every good park should have one (standard
> issue).
> 2006 intamin rocket at not a bad one at that

Here's my take on that (just for fun):

2002 Colossus - good, but massive wasted opportunity
2003 Inferno - very good, slight wasted opportunity
2006 Stealth - very good ride of its type

> Flat rides
> probaly the best in the uk but there not coasters.

They're not that good individually, to be honest.

> back to
> air time issue. Rides like maverick in cedar point are nice
> would look good over the lake. Hypers and speed coasters
> are amazing but i dont think thorpe has the capacity for
> another 200ft plus. Lim launch would be nice. But
> ultimateley a nice out and back woodie would be the best
> choice i think. Would theme nicely into canada creek.

Well, I think we can rule out on practical grounds a LIM or LSM coaster and, if Thorpe are to be believed, a woodie.

How about a clone of Goliath at La Ronde? It's virtually Shivering Timbers in steel. Only about 150ft high too. For me, it would be a dream coaster and simply the best thing they could buy.

> But
> it realy worries me when you also here talks of runaway
> trains and bobsled coasters. Im sorry if people want family
> crap go round the m25 to chessington they got what you
> need.

Well, don't worry too much about that. Bobsleds and runaway trains were just vague plans Tussauds drew up in their "post-2008" plan. Now Merlin have taken over.

As for family rides, I don't think Thorpe's coasters should necessarily be either "family" or "thrill". For me, the criteria should be "big", "good" and "expensive". I wouldn't normally say that, but with coasters, you usually get what you pay for (ie. B&M = best) and as Tussauds (and now Merlin) have always been the richest in the UK, I've always thought they should buy them. Thorpe is also in the UK Top 3 for planning leniency (the other two are Blackpool and Fantasy Island - hopefully Flamingo Land can prove us wrong!)

So yeah, I don't want wild mice at Thorpe, but if everything has loops and vertical drops, they're only going to get the same customers coming back...

Which brings me to another point: if this Euro Fighter has loops, that's another slap to those of us who want a Floorless. People said Thorpe shouldn't get a Floorless because it'd be another sitdown looper. Well, so might a Eurofighter be.

Here's my choice:

1) B&M hyper
2) B&M floorless
3) B&M flyer

C'mon Thorpe, you know it makes sense!

* This Post Has Been Modified *

Re: Thorpe 2009... by Corkscrew_Foley Corkscrew_Foley Profile at 11/16/07 12:58:47 PM

> Or even Grevins Pleasurewood hills!! ;) Might become the
> british walibi world. Bring on Goliath!!! lol

> Groan! Perhaps Tim will send us Behemoth or La Ronde's
> Goliath. ;)

Put a top hat on Rita, keep the rest of the layout, and remove the OTSRs in favour of lapbars and a seatbelt, and I'll happily give you Goliath. ;)

Re: Thorpe 2009... Please No! by Cal at 11/20/07 8:19:36 AM

It appears B&M is out, Graeme, due to cost regions. B&M may be dubbed the Rolls Royce of coaster builders...but they also charge Rolls Royce Prices.
Gerstlauer is more your Ford Mondeo. Affordable, does the job, but not exactly top of the line.

I have to say I am disappointed it'll be a Eurofighter, though. Another coaster that bashes you upside the head. Great.
You are right about the loops. They badly need a non-inverting coaster. A baby Intamin hyper would work (well, a full hyper would be better, of course!).
But if not that then a Gerstlauer bobsled or spinning coaster would be a better ride for the family demographic. And more fun!