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Ultimate Rollercoaster > Discussion Forums > Roller Coasters, Parks & Attractions > What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction?

What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction?

Coasterwench

Posted:
6/11/02 at
10:51:49 AM

We already know that Suspendeds and, Stand-ups have come to a major building halt and if parks start TAERING them all down they will probably become an extinct coaster but, What other Coaster style's do you predict in the future *Might* face extinction?? I am talking about Cloned Coasters Such as Arrow mega-loopers with 3 or more operating today that have been operating for the past 10-15 years.Do you think there is a chance Coasters such as these could dissapear in the next 20 years or, do you think the parks will do what they can to keep them standing forever?

Diana

Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by BogeyMon at 6/11/02 12:44:05 PM

If you're talking about particular types of coasters, like Stand Ups, I think they could well end up extinct in a few years. They're no longer a gimmick and with time, will cost more to maintain than the revenue they'll generate. Same with Suspended tub coasters. On the other hand, Suspendeds will probably have a decent future as smaller rides like the Caripro and Setpoint models.

Gigacoasters may be a short-lived phenomenom too. As the population ages, the audience for these extreme machines will shrink even as their maintenance costs begin to rise.

I think the KISS principle will come into play and some of the other flavor-of-the-month coasters like the Hypersonics, floorless and impulse coasters will become more trouble for the parks to maintain than they're worth.

Jim

Hopefully Wild Thing at Enchanted Village (n/m) by wild one at 6/11/02 2:02:40 PM

I said (n/m) but since you're here, Wild Thing is a piece of junk.

Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by Brooksy at 6/11/02 5:05:47 PM

> If you're talking about particular types of
> coasters, like Stand Ups, I think they could well
> end up extinct in a few years. They're no longer
> a gimmick and with time, will cost more to
> maintain than the revenue they'll generate. Same
> with Suspended tub coasters. On the other hand,
> Suspendeds will probably have a decent future as
> smaller rides like the Caripro and Setpoint
> models.

> Gigacoasters may be a short-lived phenomenom too.
> As the population ages, the audience for these
> extreme machines will shrink even as their
> maintenance costs begin to rise.

> I think the KISS principle will come into play
> and some of the other flavor-of-the-month
> coasters like the Hypersonics, floorless and
> impulse coasters will become more trouble for the
> parks to maintain than they're worth.

> Jim

You make excellent points, but man, I hope you're wrong. Flavor-of-the-months are what keep this industry interesting and provide new classics such as (insert any B&M invert here) or your Volcano's and Flyers. Hey, as long as parks can afford to produce new attempts at greatness (X), they can also easily forget and replace the duds in time.

-Brooksy

Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by chillforce chillforce Profile at 6/11/02 8:39:29 PM

As we saw with the Steel Phantom, when riders at the park stop riding a coaster, a park will get rid of it as soon as they can get a replacement. It does not matter on the type or style, the ridership numbers will make the decision.

Ed

Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by SoCal Dude at 6/11/02 9:41:40 PM

Honestly I dont think we're going to see any more Arrow mega loopers because they have been easily replaced by the huge B&M anythings.

Suspenders will probably remain to be built at parks with good terrain to make them interesting.

Hyper woodies are another we probably wont see much although looping woodies will probably be built.

Hardly any Vekomas will be built except for modified DeJa Vu's and their kiddy coasters because all others are in basic terms----Crap.

Intamin Gigas will be replaced by the Intamin Terra(is that spelled correct?) easily and then whatever comes after that.

Water coaster(Buzzsaw Falls) will become very scarce because nobody want to build them really. They'll either build a rapids ride or a rollercoaster.

Those are just the types I dont think will apeer anymore.

Rock

Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by Jersey Joe at 6/12/02 7:54:44 AM

> We already know that Suspendeds and, Stand-ups
> have come to a major building halt and if parks
> start TAERING them all down they will probably
> become an extinct coaster but, What other Coaster
> style's do you predict in the future *Might* face
> extinction?? I am talking about Cloned Coasters
> Such as Arrow mega-loopers with 3 or more
> operating today that have been operating for the
> past 10-15 years.Do you think there is a chance
> Coasters such as these could dissapear in the
> next 20 years or, do you think the parks will do
> what they can to keep them standing forever?

> Diana

Like Chilly said, if ridership slows down to a trickle (like Steel Phantom and Drachen Fire), you'll see those coasters replaced or removed.
Another case scenario is when the coaster can't be easily maintained and repaired (example: TOGO standup King Cobra - PKI) either due to age and deterioration or difficulties in getting the necessary parts.
Then there is always the dreaded situation when a park goes out of business and the rides are either sold off or SBNO.

I do not think you'll see major taering down, but you will see some replaced here and there.

One thing the parks should realize is although Suspendeds aren't being built, they should see the lines for Big Bad Wolf at BGW. It's one of the most popular coasters in the park and for good reason. Would love to see them build some more full-sized Suspendeds today, especially with all the advancements in design. I'm sure they could come up with a few new touches.

Joe

Jersey Joe's Coaster Pages

Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by BGW at 6/12/02 8:30:20 AM

> Intamin Gigas will be replaced by the Intamin
> Terra(is that spelled correct?) easily and then
> whatever comes after that.

Teracoaster is with one "r", and the next will be "Exacoaster" (although some spell it "excacoaster" the correct spelling is "exa").

As far as what I see eventually going the way of Atlantis...LIM/LSM coasters. I love the things, but I just think things will get back to the more traditional lift systems. One thing that could save this style is if we see more built like Hulk. Traditional lift hill combined with a launch.

Rob

I believe mega-loopers may eventually make a comeback with future technologies.

Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by Coasterwench at 6/12/02 11:08:18 AM

Thanks for the replies! I have a few friends and Family members with a slight interest In the future of Roller Coasters and when I am asked what I forsee happening I always have to tell them I don't know because I haven't been following the business long enough to take any sort of guess. Alot of times I am asked why we don't see more Coasters Like Big Bad Wolf (Funny Joe mentioned that!) aren't built. Particularly BBW because my brother and his Girlfriend recently took a trip to BGW and enjoyed that coaster alot and wondered why there aren't more of them. Thanks again!

Diana

Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by sparky sparky Profile at 6/12/02 5:14:18 PM

There are several types of steel coasters that probably won't be around in ten years or so at all..

Shuttle Loops- Either from Arrow or Schwarzkopf. In the U.S., we're down to three Arrows and three Schwarzkopfs. They're one trick ponies, that while fine for what they do, are maintenance heavy rides, with flywheel and counterweight cable launches. With spending cuts, comes maintenance cuts- parks that have shuttle loops will have to decide whether or not their ride is worth investing in. SFoG obviously felt Viper wasn't worth it.

Speedracer- This is a no brainer, as there are only a handful of the various Schwarkopf spiral lift family oriented speedracer coasters left. The U.S. has one custom designed park model at SFGAM; one City Jet at Gillian's Wonderland Pier in Ocean City, NJ; one Jumbo Jet at Coney Island, NY; and one Jet Star II at Lagoon. While some dismantled rides have reopened in other countries (i.e. Zambezi Zinger), I don't see these rides being around much longer.

First Generation Arrow Corkscrew/Loopscrew- The U.S. has three loopscrews operating (Great Escape, Libertyland, Enchanted Parks), and 4 corkscrews operating (Canobie Lake, BGT, Michigan's Adventure, Silverwood). They are clearly well built rides, but have way overstayed their welcome. Old news in an industry that strives for the latest and greatest. I'm amazed that a high profile park like BGT still operates Python.

-sparky

Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by BGW at 6/13/02 9:05:31 AM

I'm amazed
> that a high profile park like BGT still operates
> Python.

> -sparky

You are probably right in what you say, but I am sure glad they've kept it this long. When I was a kid I remember seeing commercials for Disney World and BGT played on local TV up here in Cincinnati. At the time Python looked huge and you went upside down! Then came Scorpian and OH man did I have to ride that. When we finally took our family trip down to Orlando in the fall of '82, I was 11-years-old and couldn't wait to get over there. But nobody wanted to drive all the way over there, what a bunch of wimps...Fast forward to a few years ago. I finally made my way over to BGT and started with a ride on my long awaited Scorpian. This was just plain awesome, I really enjoyed this coaster for today's standards and can only imagine how blown away I would have been if I rode it some 17 years earlier. Made my way around the and finally got to that HUGE coaster "Python", and it was "Closed for Maintenance"...Another fast forward another year. Back down there and I went straight for "Python" and rode front seat right hand side. Nice head chopper when you pass the back of the station but only when setting in this seat. Isn't it funny how TV can make things seem so huge when they are as small as this coaster. It was fun and I'm sure it was awesome in the late 70's to mid 80's, but it wasn't anything more. Still I'm glad they kept this coaster just for me to finally get to ride it.

Rob

I believe the Reverands sad story about the Beast when he was 12 is much worse than my Python story from when I was 12, although they both have about the same outcome, he clearly picked a better coaster to have to wait 20+ years to ride.

Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by Overbanked Overbanked Profile at 5/15/12 2:53:40 PM
Yay! I did it again, another archival post revived!!! :)

I'll name some coasters in particular that I think are gonna get yanked out sooner than later.
Any Arrow looper that's over 100ft in height, with the exception of Loch Ness Monster (because of it's cult following, and smooth layout). While the smaller Arrow loopers have bought themselves some time (like Carolina Cyclone) with their layouts like they were truly intended to be; These hulking tall Brontosauruses on the other hand like the late GASM are monstrosities that B&M have already replaced in every single facet.

Tennessee Tornado- With the two loopers already in place Wild Eagle, and Mystery Mine, it's only a matter of time.

Vortex(KI)- While it has it's small devoted following, I'm amazed that this thing is still standing. With the 25 anniversary this year, it seems like it would be a fitting time to retire it soon, we all know what happened after BBW's 25th birthday.

Anaconda- Double the 'amazement' factor that I feel about Vortex still being on the park's map. I'm flabbergasted that this hulk is still in service.

Of course we all know that the annoying, incessant, and painful Vekoma SLC's are never gonna go away, they are like that pesky fire ant hill that you can never totally get rid of. They probably will last another twenty-five years LOL.

On the wooden coaster side, Son of Beast is without say. The rumors about it's removal seems constant. With those problems with it's overall structure, I seriously doubt if it gets the Rocky Mtn treatment. I will always remember it in it's glory with the killer positive-G's and the loop.

* This post was modified at 5/15/12 3:01:16 PM *

Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by beastmaster beastmaster Profile at 5/15/12 2:59:15 PM
10 years, Chris?

I thought Walking Dead didn't resume 'til October...

The amusement park rises bold and stark
Kids are huddled on the beach in a mist...
Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by sarki7 sarki7 Profile at 5/15/12 5:45:32 PM
I certainly wouldn't think any Vekoma/Arrow corkscrew clone is safe from the wrecking ball, but the smoother ones probably have a good decade of life left, at least.

I'm surprised you mentioned Tennessee Tornado, have you ridden? It's wildly custom layout and what had been remarkable smoothness (not just for an Arrow) were two big reasons it's near the top my of 'most overlooked coasters' list. I would be shocked - SHOCKED - if it goes anywhere anytime soon.

Anaconda, Viper (SFMM) are probably toast, and both would be great spots for replacements, taking up huge footprints. How about Viper at DL or Vortex at KI? I imagine any Arrow with more than 3 inversions is in danger, a combination of high maintenance and low ridership. Same for Gouderix.

Let's not forget some of the lesser B&Ms climbing over 20 years old - the Vortex's, and how long do we seriously expect Apocalypse to last at SFA? I'd give it 5 years, if that.

The way you feel about SLCs (not that I disagree) is how I feel about Boomerangs. Some of them are getting old, and most are downright brutal. But if we're expecting parks to take them down so as to offer the highest quality park experience, I don't think they would have been built in the first place. ;)

Wooden coasters are a tough one, the TG treatment is a game changer, and a park closing can take down any highly regarded coaster (see Villain, Rampage). I'd say we're more likely to see wooden coasters go because of park finances than because of any maintenance/ride ability issues.

Coaster Count: 331 (268/63)
Favorite Steel, Wood: Montu, Thunderhead
www.gregscoasterphotos.com ← Go there! It's good!
Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by RobLec RobLec Profile at 5/15/12 6:16:26 PM
I wouldn't count out KI's Vortex just yet. It enjoys very high ridership and very low downtime. It has been well maintained and as long as the structure holds up from rusting away I think they'll keep it running.

BTW I see your Montu and Thunderhead favorites and agree wholeheartedly! Both great coasters, but have you ridden RFII?

Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by alpengeistno3 at 5/15/12 6:37:30 PM
No one mentioned Bobsleds? Full train or single car, there hasn't been one built anywhere for 20 years, so it's only a matter of time before they all go.

Now if Knoebels can ever get that Flying Turns thing to work...

Paul

Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by sarki7 sarki7 Profile at 5/15/12 6:48:30 PM
That's great about Vortex at KI. I've never visited, so it was pure speculation on my part. Just goes to show how much longevity can vary from ride-to-ride and park-to-park, and how different the motivations each park can have. For example, I'd think SFMM would hang onto Viper longer than they otherwise might, wanting to hang onto the coaster title.

The top few spots in my wood and steel lists aren't separated by much, but those two top my lists ever-so-slightly. Nope, haven't been to Waldameer - since I moved to California, my east coast trips tend to be to bigger cities. :\ Maybe I'll hit it briefly as I run between Niagara Falls and Sandusky - or on the way back to Toronto for my coaster tour next month.

Never considered bobsleds to be that likely to disappear. Sure, they're rare, but they seem pretty hearty, and given their more mundane layouts, not as likely to tear themselves apart. FWIW, Trace du Hourra (Parc Asterix) was built in 2001, and is a lot of fun. At 3000ft, it offers a looong, winding ride through the forest. Might not see any more get built, but can't see that one going anywhere anytime soon.

* This post was modified at 5/15/12 6:49:58 PM *

Coaster Count: 331 (268/63)
Favorite Steel, Wood: Montu, Thunderhead
www.gregscoasterphotos.com ← Go there! It's good!
Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by RobLec RobLec Profile at 5/15/12 7:35:15 PM
sarki7 said:
The top few spots in my wood and steel lists aren't separated by much, but those two top my lists ever-so-slightly. Nope, haven't been to Waldameer...

I was just wondering, since Montu is still my number one, and has been ever since its opening year. And Thunderhead was our number one wood until we rode RFII two years ago. It has much of the same thrill as Voyage without being so physically taxing. We rode RFII eleven in a row during ERT and came away only wanting more!

Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by Overbanked Overbanked Profile at 5/15/12 7:35:39 PM
sarki7 said:

I'm surprised you mentioned Tennessee Tornado, have you ridden? It's wildly custom layout and what had been remarkable smoothness (not just for an Arrow) were two big reasons it's near the top my of 'most overlooked coasters' list. I would be shocked - SHOCKED - if it goes anywhere anytime soon.

Yeah, I rode Tenn Tornado in 07'. It is pretty smooth for an Arrow coaster, I can't recall any significant headbanging on the OTHR's; The ride time is extremely short for it's height, it seems like it ends before it begins, almost like a blur. I thought the experience was just okay. It was a constant walk on when I was there, and I can imagine that the que will be even more unimpeded than ever now with Wild Eagle there. You're probably right, it's probably not gonna go anywhere anytime soon, although IMO it's definitely the most big expendable coaster in the park.

You mentioned Apocalypse, remember that's the first B&M coaster, it has that historical factor on it's side. As long as B&M keep supplying the parts, I don't see Apocalypse going anywhere anytime soon. That Iron Wolf/Apocalypse move was all about saving money, and at the same time swapping thrills between Six Flags parks more than anything. I don't even know of any B&M coaster that has been 'decommissioned' thus far.

* This post was modified at 5/15/12 8:09:59 PM *

Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by sarki7 sarki7 Profile at 5/15/12 8:12:29 PM
I rode Montu first in '98, so, wow, it's been tops for 14 years. Last rode in 2005. Superman (SFNE) and Intimidator (KD) have come close, but not quite. You've got me convinced, I'll see if I can talk the wife into a lunch stop at Waldameer on the trip between Sandusky and Toronto. Free parking and free admision have made it so.

Agreed, TT at DW is on the short side, but it packs a punch. I'm thinking it'll outlast Blazing Fury, though that ride's already a million years old, so who knows.

I can't imagine there's much sentiment in the industry for an aging standup coaster, even if it was B&Ms first (on their own, anyway). It's not like it's the Matterhorn. Was there much outcry at SFGAm when it got removed? One day a B&M will get scrapped for good, and I'd bet it's among the first, if not the first. Maybe a Vortex.

Coaster Count: 331 (268/63)
Favorite Steel, Wood: Montu, Thunderhead
www.gregscoasterphotos.com ← Go there! It's good!
Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by Geauga_Dog Geauga_Dog Profile at 5/15/12 8:20:23 PM
If GL was still around Double Loop would have been gone by now.

Unless something drastic happens to it or a shiny new Beemer/Intamin looper is installed and takes away a lot of riders from it KI's Vortex is not going anywhere. As stated it is still very popular (as evidenced by the long, long line for it on my visit last Saturday).

No one mentioned Corkscrew at CP. It's going to be 40 in just four more years and the ridership has dropped drastically over the years. They only run two trains now. Would make a nice "starter" coaster for a small/mid-sized up and coming park just like how Knott's Corkscrew went to Silverwood.

Also no one mentioned the Demons at both Great Americas. I would include Arrow mine trains but they still seem to be popular as a family ride.

G-Dog

* This post was modified at 5/15/12 8:22:29 PM *

Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by sarki7 sarki7 Profile at 5/15/12 8:32:54 PM
Has Corkscrew gotten rough recently? If not, I'd be surprised to see it gone, even with the low ridership. But for all I know it was a tossup between Corkscrew and Wildcat for removal. :}

Yup, definitely had the Demons in mind with this:

sarki7 said:

I imagine any Arrow with more than 3 inversions is in danger, a combination of high maintenance and low ridership.

* This post was modified at 5/15/12 8:43:31 PM *

Coaster Count: 331 (268/63)
Favorite Steel, Wood: Montu, Thunderhead
www.gregscoasterphotos.com ← Go there! It's good!
Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by Overbanked Overbanked Profile at 5/15/12 8:52:40 PM
^^^Yeah, Apocalypse's history definitely is not in the same league as Matterhorn's, I can't argue with you there. Out of all of the B&M stand ups I've ridden, GA Scorcher is the most tolerable, far as comfort goes. Carotex is awful, and Mantis was very uncomfortable. The Togo at KD Shockwave was IMO the most comfortable by far, even though it's layout isn't nothing to write home about.

* This post was modified at 5/15/12 8:58:51 PM *

Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by Cyclone_Phil Cyclone_Phil Profile at 5/15/12 9:20:49 PM
Agreed about the KD shockwave, it's not too bad, but I wouldn't miss it nor Anaconda if they were to be replaced. I wonder: what can they fit in Anaconda's footprint and would the replacement at least keep the tunnel segment of the ride?

As far as the inverts: Montu is still wonderful (despite the trims before the batwing).

Tennessee Tornado at DW, I like it as well, but don't like how short it was. I know last i went in 2006 there was hardly anyone there (allowed me about 6 re-rides), but that was because it was all the way at the other end of the park. Maybe if the pathway from wild eagle is connected to that part of the park, it might get some more ridership?

* This post was modified at 5/15/12 9:22:16 PM *

Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by beastmaster beastmaster Profile at 5/15/12 10:09:48 PM
RobLec said:

sarki7 said:
The top few spots in my wood and steel lists aren't separated by much, but those two top my lists ever-so-slightly. Nope, haven't been to Waldameer...


I was just wondering, since Montu is still my number one, and has been ever since its opening year. And Thunderhead was our number one wood until we rode RFII two years ago. It has much of the same thrill as Voyage without being so physically taxing. We rode RFII eleven in a row during ERT and came away only wanting more!

Rob, I'm considering making my second jaunt to Waldameer in about a month. I can't WAIT to get me some more RF! Will it hold on to my #2 spot?...the Shadow knows!

Mike

The amusement park rises bold and stark
Kids are huddled on the beach in a mist...
Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by drachen drachen Profile at 5/15/12 11:57:18 PM
Wow, this thread seems to be a hit...

Arrow seems to be the the manufacturer whose rides are getting to that point... where the cost/effort to maintain it outweighs it's popularity with guests and management alike. This is commonly referred to "reaching the end of its serviceable life". It seems to have more to do with the shape the track is in, than the trains - as those parts are still available.

I see the Arrow suspended coasters getting to that point soon. Busch Gardens, and some overseas parks have decided to pull the plug on theirs in recent years. It's only a matter of time before Kings Island, Canada's Wonderland, and Magic Mountain reach the same point.

For some reason though, I see Cedar Point keeping Iron Dragon going for quite some time, as it has the softest layout it seems.

Regarding the mega-loopers, I'll be sad if/when they go. But don't count them out just yet. They are and have always been reliable rides and capacity machines. Some are certainly more solidly constructed than others, but it seems like their shelf lives are less than 30 years.

I think, though, that we'll see the suspended coasters die out before the remaining loopers. So long as the track is in good shape, train parts are still easy to get.

Tennessee Tornado is going no where. That ride runs like a champ, and is designed precisely for that spot. It's not that old either. (1999)

The mine trains are pretty safe too. Their tracks don't suffer the stresses that these major loopers do. With companies like S&S and Premier able to supply train parts, they'll be around for a long, long time.

I do have a concern for the little Schwarzkopfs, like Wild Cat at Cedar Point. Those are very fun rides, and I don't like that CP just scrapped theirs. I would hope that other parks don't follow suit.

I also think that Whizzer, which I believe is the only one left of its kind, is a fantastic ride. I hope Great America can hold on to for a long time yet.

drachen
Coaster to Park Ratio: 4.87 / Steel to Wooden Ratio: 2.57 / Wooden Coaster Percentage: 28%
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Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by sarki7 sarki7 Profile at 5/16/12 12:11:58 AM
Interesting - I didn't find Shockwave at KD all that worthy of preservation. It certainly feels outdated, even if the ride it gives isn't the absolute worst. Raises a good question - what's gone first, Shockwave or Anaconda? Not an easy call.

Tennessee Tornado may be short, and may be have some low ridership being tucked in the back of the park - but I know I'm not the only one who though Arrow would be resurrected on its laurels. It's a shame that never happened, but I too think it's going to fit in perfectly at the park for a long while.

You raise an interesting point about the Suspendeds, and I can only hope they mirror the Bobsleds from earlier in the discussion - rare, but not the most intense, so perhaps some longevity beyond the Arrow loopers. Both will have an issue with getting replacement parts - but then again we haven't seen a new suspended in a while, so I have to think parts are coming from somewhere. I'll rue the day Ninja at SFMM is removed - along with Tennessee Tornado I have it as one of the most overlooked/underrated coasters out there. I'm really looking forward to my ride on Vortex at CW to boot. Really, save for the suspension/shocks - they're still fundamentally Arrow trains, right? I can't imagine they're THAT exotic. Or am I blinded by optimism?

Whoa - Whizzer. I could have sworn that was defunct already. :D

Coaster Count: 331 (268/63)
Favorite Steel, Wood: Montu, Thunderhead
www.gregscoasterphotos.com ← Go there! It's good!
Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by Overbanked Overbanked Profile at 5/16/12 7:58:02 AM
drachen said:

I also think that Whizzer, which I believe is the only one left of its kind, is a fantastic ride. I hope Great America can hold on to for a long time yet.

Yeah, the defunct Whizzer at Cali's Great America was the other facsimile. The only other Speed Racer (smaller version) in the world, the old relocated Zambezi Zinger at WOF, now named 'Broca' down there in Colombia.

www.rcdb.com/1392.htm

* This post was modified at 5/16/12 8:16:51 AM *

Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by Overbanked Overbanked Profile at 5/16/12 8:35:35 AM
sarki7 said:

Interesting - I didn't find Shockwave at KD all that worthy of preservation. It certainly feels outdated, even if the ride it gives isn't the absolute worst. Raises a good question - what's gone first, Shockwave or Anaconda? Not an easy call.

Good point, I can see that decision being a tough call from KD's top brass. Now if it was me, the decision isn't tough at all, scrap Anaconda. You're right about Shockwave, it's definitely no thrill seekers realm by no means, but atleast isn't the uncomfortable overly rough headbanger that Anaconda is. It seems like people's reaction to Shockwave is like 'whatever eh' but Anaconda's reaction is more animated for the wrong reasons like 'ouch owww ouch!!!'.

* This post was modified at 5/16/12 8:40:11 AM *

Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by sarki7 sarki7 Profile at 5/16/12 12:27:56 PM
I would definitely agree there is a difference in ride experiences between pointless and painful. :}

Looking back at my KD TR from last summer, here's what I said about Shockwave:
"spent pretty much the entirety of the remaining layout getting knocked around in the helix and mostly unpleasant hills and turns. Not the roughest coaster out there, it’s significantly closer to that end of the spectrum than smoothest."

And Anaconda:
"I remember it being a bit wild even when it was only seven years old during my previous rides. I warned Megan that it was somewhere between Demon at Great America and Viper at Magic Mountain, both in terms of its layout and roughness. I was right on the money as age and old school engineering have condemned this coaster to much the same fate as its Arrow brethren: more fun to look at than ride."

Ha, looks like I wouldn't shed a tear for either, even if my preference for Shockwave is razor-thin. :}

* This post was modified at 5/16/12 1:41:28 PM *

Coaster Count: 331 (268/63)
Favorite Steel, Wood: Montu, Thunderhead
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Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by alpengeistno3 at 5/16/12 7:12:40 PM
I wonder how much longer Avalanche at KD can last. It is the only full train bobsled in North America and the park has been cannibalizing the 3rd and 4th trains for parts for many years now. It's only a matter of time until they are going to have to either hunker down and buy new parts or do the unthinkable and retire it.

As for the Anaconda vs Shockwave debate, I prefer Anaconda (remember, rough coasters don't bother me). Unfortunately, the plot of land that it sits on has far more versatility than Shockwave's cramp site, so when the time comes, Conda will most likely take the fall first.

You can almost bet, that the end of Anaconda will also result in the end of Lake Charles. If they are going to construct a new coaster there, I doubt they will fight the temptation to just drain the remainder and be done with it.

Paul

Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by sarki7 sarki7 Profile at 5/16/12 7:31:03 PM
Hmm, they were only running one train on Avalanche when I was there, though crowds were light and they only had one going on Intimidator too. Do they ever run two? Didn't realize trains 3 and 4 were toast already.

I was thinking that too - Shockwave seems pretty crammed into its spot. Though with some land clearing behind it, it's not like the footprint couldn't be used for something modest. Definitely more room over the lake though.

Oh, interesting, that's news to me. Do they have issues with the lake? It is even natural? It's such a nice feature, and the tunnel is one of the more iconic images in the industry. Hate to see the lake go more than Anaconda, now that I think about it. :}

Coaster Count: 331 (268/63)
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Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by Geauga_Dog Geauga_Dog Profile at 5/16/12 7:46:47 PM
Unlike the Intamin bobsleds, Mack still offers theirs as part of their coaster lineup so parts shouldn't be a problem in keeping Avalanche going.

Shockwave would be easier to remove than Anaconda but with the park having my beloved Dominator it seems Anaconda is pointless.

G-Dog

Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by Cyclone_Phil Cyclone_Phil Profile at 5/16/12 7:53:30 PM
The main thing I like about Anaconda is the use of the lake, but as long as the replacement is better than the current coaster, I can live with the loss of the lake. I just wonder what they can build in that space. For some reason I keep thinking it has to be a flyer because most types are accounted for (sitdown, giga, floorless, standup, inverted*exception, launch), but I would guess it'd have to be vekoma.

Good point about Avalanche, there's only 2 trains now, they can't keep cannibalizing the 3rd and 4th trains forever. I like that ride, but if KD doesn't want it, I would love to see BGW take it since it fits nicely with the 'europe' theme.

If they were to knock down a few more trees behind Shockwave, would it be enough for a slightly bigger coaster to fit?

* This post was modified at 5/16/12 7:55:12 PM *

Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by RobLec RobLec Profile at 5/16/12 9:02:45 PM
alpengeistno3 said:
You can almost bet, that the end of Anaconda will also result in the end of Lake Charles. If they are going to construct a new coaster there, I doubt they will fight the temptation to just drain the remainder and be done with it.

As KI did with Swan Lake to put in Diamondback.

Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by alpengeistno3 at 5/17/12 12:27:32 AM
sarki7 said:

Hmm, they were only running one train on Avalanche when I was there, though crowds were light and they only had one going on Intimidator too. Do they ever run two? Didn't realize trains 3 and 4 were toast already.

They usually run 2 (I don't think I have ever seen them run only 1 unless something was wrong with the other train). The ride opened with 4. At this point, neither of the other 2 trains are on site (the third used to be in pieces on the 2nd transfer track under the final brake run. It is no longer there.)

I know Mack still makes parts, but apparently KD refuses to buy them (or would rather take them from the other 2 trains). I have heard they are doing the same with Volcano's 3rd train and FOF's 3rd train, but those aren't visible to the public, so as far as I am concerned, that is still only rumor.

sarki7 said:

I was thinking that too - Shockwave seems pretty crammed into its spot. Though with some land clearing behind it, it's not like the footprint couldn't be used for something modest. Definitely more room over the lake though.


Shockwave is actually a modified version of the Togo Standups that used to run at Kings Island. It was modified to fit the spot in front of the Theater there. There are some options the park can play with to fit a new ride in that are (including getting rid of their antique car ride like Busch did), but the easier move would be the scrap Anaconda and fill in the rest of the lake.


sarki7 said:

Oh, interesting, that's news to me. Do they have issues with the lake? It is even natural? It's such a nice feature, and the tunnel is one of the more iconic images in the industry. Hate to see the lake go more than Anaconda, now that I think about it. :}

No, but it used to be much bigger before they filled in half of it to put in the water park. It proves that they have no commitment to lake and it would be cheaper to build a new ride without the lake than to keep it in its current state. (and Rob makes a good point about Kings Island and Diamondback).

I have a picture from 1991 when the ride 1st opened (before the waterpark was put in. It was quite amazing to see the entire lake as a backdrop for the coaster. I'll have to see if I can scan it.

Paul

Re: What Older Steel Coasters do you feel are threatened for Extinction? by beastmaster beastmaster Profile at 5/17/12 5:55:03 AM
RobLec said:

alpengeistno3 said:
You can almost bet, that the end of Anaconda will also result in the end of Lake Charles. If they are going to construct a new coaster there, I doubt they will fight the temptation to just drain the remainder and be done with it.


As KI did with Swan Lake to put in Diamondback.

KI had a ballet? Roll over Beethoven, and tell Tchaikovsky the news!

The amusement park rises bold and stark
Kids are huddled on the beach in a mist...