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New coaster at 6 Flags America? (Largo Maryland)

Joseph

Posted:
4/4/00 at
3:32:26 PM

I've heard there is a new coaster opening this year at 6 Flags in Largo. Has anyone got any news on this? Joe

Re: New coaster at 6 Flags America? (Largo Marylan by Sam A. Marks at 4/4/00 3:54:22 PM

> I've heard there is a new coaster opening
> this year at 6 Flags in Largo. Has anyone
> got any news on this? Joe

Yep! you can see it and all it's stats at My Six Flags America Page

Re: New coaster at 6 Flags America? (Largo Marylan by Danny Biggerstaff (CoAsTeRDaN) at 4/4/00 4:13:53 PM

> I've heard there is a new coaster opening
> this year at 6 Flags in Largo. Has anyone
> got any news on this? Joe

Yes they are, its just another clone. SFA can say only one coaster there is original. The funny thing is that didnt even build that one, they just moved it.

Danny

CoAsTeRDaN's PaRk

Re: New coaster at 6 Flags America? (Largo Marylan by Zimm at 4/4/00 4:34:27 PM

Yes they are, its just another clone. SFA can
> say only one coaster there is original. The
> funny thing is that didnt even build that
> one, they just moved it. Danny

*** How is it a clone when its a few feet shorter than the other S:ROS coasters? The S:ROS at SFA is 200 feet while the other 2 are 208. That can't be a clone since a clone is identical (or a mirror image). Roar isn't a clone either. There is a similar one at SFMW but its not a clone. And I'm assuming the coaster you are referring to is Wild One. Wild World moved it, not Six Flags. And its actually a good thing when an older coaster is saved like the Wild One. So maybe you should give the park some credit for that.

Zimm

Re: New coaster at 6 Flags America? (Largo Marylan by S W at 4/4/00 4:46:29 PM

I agree with Zimm on this, Roar at SFA is not a clone, it was made in 98, the other Roar was made in 99. I think that all the coasters are pretty good, since they have something that I really like, a short line. I would rather go on Joker's Jinx for 3 hours, than wait in a 3 hour line. I think that you should go back to this park, because things have been changed since the past. I also think that this park might become bigger and better than PKD.

Re: New coaster at 6 Flags America? (Largo Marylan by KMAN KMAN Profile at 4/4/00 4:55:09 PM

> Yes they are, its just another clone. SFA
> can *** How is it a clone when its a few
> feet shorter than the other S:ROS coasters?
> The S:ROS at SFA is 200 feet while the other
> 2 are 208. That can't be a clone since a
> clone is identical (or a mirror image). Roar
> isn't a clone either. There is a similar one
> at SFMW but its not a clone. And I'm
> assuming the coaster you are referring to is
> Wild One. Wild World moved it, not Six
> Flags. And its actually a good thing when an
> older coaster is saved like the Wild One. So
> maybe you should give the park some credit
> for that. Zimm

________

Yes, but the SFA version of S:ROS has the exact layout of the SFDL version after the 8 foot difference in lift hills. The SFNE version has a completely different layout than the SFDL/SFA layout.

But yes, Roar is not a clone since it was the original (and an excellent coaster at that!!)And while JJ has the exact layout as OL:FOF, the indoor format of OL:FOF makes it a COMPLETELY different ride experience IMO --K

Re: New coaster at 6 Flags America? (Largo Marylan by Danny Biggerstaff (CoAsTeRDaN) at 4/4/00 4:57:33 PM

> I agree with Zimm on this, Roar at SFA is
> not a clone, it was made in 98, the other
> Roar was made in 99. I think that all the
> coasters are pretty good, since they have
> something that I really like, a short line.
> I would rather go on Joker's Jinx for 3
> hours, than wait in a 3 hour line. I think
> that you should go back to this park,
> because things have been changed since the
> past. I also think that this park might
> become bigger and better than PKD.

Just because a ride is built in a different year doesnt mean its not a clone. But I know there are some VERY small differences, same with the Superman Rides, but overall, they are they same thing. Whats 8 feet, not even the height of a basketball goal). My point being they are just sticking in the same rides everywhere and the Premier way is just wrong. I know other parks do it too and I dont agree with them, but they stop at one or two more, but not old Premier. As far as SFA becoming bigger and better than PKD, that is a joke. SFA has many issues to deal with that PKD doesnt, such as horrible patrons. Heck, SFA doesnt even bother to clean up the trash in the park before they open, I bet there may be some trash lieing around in a few remote places from last season there right now. The rides there are avg at best and you cant get many rides in a day, their capacity is horrible. When I talk to people around Richmond who have actually been to SFA or Adventure World, the typical saying is "NEVER AGAIN". That tells me all I need to know.

Danny

CoAsTeRDaN's PaRk

Re: New coaster at 6 Flags America? (Largo Marylan by Danny Biggerstaff (CoAsTeRDaN) at 4/4/00 5:10:19 PM

________ Yes, but the SFA version of S:ROS has
> the exact layout of the SFDL version after
> the 8 foot difference in lift hills. The
> SFNE version has a completely different
> layout than the SFDL/SFA layout. But yes,
> Roar is not a clone since it was the
> original (and an excellent coaster at
> that!!)And while JJ has the exact layout as
> OL:FOF, the indoor format of OL:FOF makes it
> a COMPLETELY different ride experience IMO
> --K

Just because Roar at SFA was first doesnt mean its not a clone if there are others like it... As far as OL FOF vs JJ goes, WHO CARES, the both are rough and boring and ugly ! At least PKD hid theirs...

Danny

CoAsTeRDaN's PaRk

Re: New coaster at 6 Flags America? (Largo Marylan by KMAN KMAN Profile at 4/4/00 5:52:30 PM

> ________ Yes, but the SFA version of S:ROS
> has Just because Roar at SFA was first
> doesnt mean its not a clone if there are
> others like it... As far as OL FOF vs JJ
> goes, WHO CARES, the both are rough and
> boring and ugly ! At least PKD hid theirs...
> Danny

_________

Actually, I would hardly consider OL:FOF boring. While not spectacular, it's combination of tight turns and the final corkscrew in the dark are far from boring IMO.

And neither coasters are rough IMO. Then again, I am not a member or the tissue paper and "fragile, do not break" organization of coaster riders either. --K

Re:More on Roar by KMAN KMAN Profile at 4/4/00 5:56:03 PM

> ________ Yes, but the SFA version of S:ROS
> has Just because Roar at SFA was first
> doesnt mean its not a clone if there are
> others like it... As far as OL FOF vs JJ
> goes, WHO CARES, the both are rough and
> boring and ugly ! At least PKD hid theirs...
> Danny

_______

Oh yeah, Roar at SFA IS NOT a clone. It is the original. Only the coasters following it using the same design carry the clone distinction. So while there is another copy of it, the SFA version is not a clone. -- K

Re: New coaster at 6 Flags America? (Largo Marylan by GR8 Ump at 4/4/00 6:08:21 PM

Just because a ride is built in a different year
> doesnt mean its not a clone.

No, but Roar was an original design. Therefore, it couldnt be a clone!

Whats 8 feet

The size of ur ego...at least SFA has added more coasters to its lineup than both of the major parks in VA combined the past 3 seasons (98,99,00)

My point
> being they are just sticking in the same
> rides everywhere and the Premier way is just
> wrong.

Why is it wrong? Dont like, dont go.

I know other parks do it too and I
> dont agree with them,

Like Paramount???

but they stop at one
> or two more, but not old Premier.

Outer Limits, Grizzly, Hurler, Eiffel Towers...not to mention the Thrill Zone or whatever its correct name is...thats more than 2.

As far as
> SFA becoming bigger and better than PKD,
> that is a joke. SFA has many issues to deal
> with that PKD doesnt, such as horrible
> patrons.

What makes the patrons horrible? Why do u think u are better than the other patrons...I sure dont.

Heck, SFA doesnt even bother to
> clean up the trash in the park before they
> open, I bet there may be some trash lieing
> around in a few remote places from last
> season there right now.

Did u purposely place trash behind obscure objects so you could post this statement?

The rides there are
> avg at best and you cant get many rides in a
> day

As far as flat rides? Other parks, non Premier have them too...IMO, PKD doesnt have enough of a flat ride arsenal.

And when you go to a park that changes it name and adds to new coasters in a season, then decide to go on opening day...of course you arent going to get many rides.

I dont know what u are talking about as far as that goes...I dont think I stood in a line longer than 20 minutes all of last year...actually I take that back...I stood in line for Roar with Bob Hooley for 40 minutes.

When I talk
> to people around Richmond who have actually
> been to SFA or Adventure World, the typical
> saying is "NEVER AGAIN".

Good, make my waiting time even shorter!

GR8 Ump!

OL:FOF by Zimm at 4/4/00 6:13:45 PM

_________ Actually, I would hardly consider
> OL:FOF boring. While not spectacular, it's
> combination of tight turns and the final
> corkscrew in the dark are far from boring
> IMO. And neither coasters are rough IMO.
> Then again, I am not a member or the tissue
> paper and "fragile, do not break"
> organization of coaster riders either. --K

*** OF:FOF is actually one of my favorite coasters. It has the incredible start in the black hole and all the special effects enhances the ride. The lights and the big booming sound when it launches increases the excitement. It has slowed down a bit with that big brake in the middle, but its still a fun ride. They seemed to make it a little brighter inside though :( I remember the first time I went on it I could never see the ground.

Zimm

Re: Here we go.... by KMAN KMAN Profile at 4/4/00 6:13:59 PM

Just because a ride is built in a different year
> doesnt mean its not a clone. But I know
> there are some VERY small differences, same
> with the Superman Rides, but overall, they
> are they same thing.

__________

Actually only the SFA and SFDL versions are similar. As far as the Superman rides being the same thing: SFNE S:ROS Hyper is a completely different layout than SFDL or SFA. S:UE is an inverted shuttle, S:KC is a floorless, and S:TE is a shuttle. The "Superman Rides" are overall not the same thing at all.

___________

My point
> being they are just sticking in the same
> rides everywhere and the Premier way is just
> wrong. I know other parks do it too and I
> dont agree with them, but they stop at one
> or two more, but not old Premier.

___________

I am not a big Premier fan either, but I bet if any other ownership like Cedar Fair or Paramount had as many parks they would be forced to install some clones in.

___________

As far as
> SFA becoming bigger and better than PKD,
> that is a joke.

__________

SFA has more available land than PKD, so the bigger issue is completely feasable.

__________

SFA has many issues to deal
> with that PKD doesnt, such as horrible
> patrons. Heck, SFA doesnt even bother to
> clean up the trash in the park before they
> open, I bet there may be some trash lieing
> around in a few remote places from last
> season there right now.

___________

I agree with you on this definitely!

___________ The rides there are
> avg at best and you cant get many rides in a
> day, their capacity is horrible. When I talk
> to people around Richmond who have actually
> been to SFA or Adventure World, the typical
> saying is "NEVER AGAIN". That
> tells me all I need to know. Danny

__________

Yes, SFA has HORRIBLE steel coasters. But, S:ROS will probably be the best coaster at either PKD or SFA. PKD has better steel coasters, but aside from V:TBC their steel coasters not spectacular either. And Roar and Grizzly are both excellent and Wild One is better than RY or Hurler IMO.

Keep in mind that I am not overly fond of SFA right now. I love PKD and have been going there for 16 years now. But, to expect a small park to make a smooth transition to a major themer in one summer is asking a little much. I suspect it will take all of this summer to get SFA near where it needs to be. And yes, I see a very distinct possibility that in 3-5 years SFA will be the bigger park and be operating on a quality level near or at PKD in that time span. Not to disagree with everything you're saying, but I see an argument with a lot of holes in it and no real evidence in your opinion other than a bad visit or two or word of mouth. --K

Re: New coaster at 6 Flags America? (Largo Marylan by Themak at 4/4/00 6:24:32 PM

> ________ Yes, but the SFA version of S:ROS
> has Just because Roar at SFA was first
> doesnt mean its not a clone if there are
> others like it... As far as OL FOF vs JJ
> goes, WHO CARES, the both are rough and
> boring and ugly ! At least PKD hid theirs...
> Danny

Danny I'm gonna play devils advocate here.from what i have gathered,you believe that premier parks,especially SFA, is cheap and put in clones, or almost clones, in their parks.Well how about we look at our beloved PKD. Shockwave and King Cobra are nearly identical.same with the Grizzly and Wilde Beaste. What im trying to say is so what if there has been more than one Roar.There are plenty of Batman clones and they're not all at premier parks (dont forget great white at sea world).what about Raptor(cedar fair).theres a clone over in japan i believe.see, not just premier puts in copies of rides.you could even go as far as saying diamond falls is a clone of every other shoot-the-chutes.heck, what about the eiffel tower,why not classify that as a clone. my point is, it doesnt matter if there are more than one model of an attraction,be glad its there.batman,raptor,roar, and s:ros are all fun rides.instead of always ragging on SFA and premier,be thankful we have these parks instead of some housing developments or mini malls.

just my 2 cents

Themak

Re: New coaster at 6 Flags America? (Largo Marylan by spaz at 4/4/00 6:36:34 PM

Yes they are, its just another clone. SFA can
> say only one coaster there is original. The
> funny thing is that didnt even build that
> one, they just moved it. Danny

sfdl's is such a awesome ride, why tinker with near perfection, I wish sfstl would get such an awesome clone.

What has PKD done lately???? by Zimm at 4/4/00 8:11:00 PM

Just because a ride is built in a different year
> doesnt mean its not a clone. But I know
> there are some VERY small differences, same
> with the Superman Rides, but overall, they
> are they same thing. Whats 8 feet, not even
> the height of a basketball goal). My point
> being they are just sticking in the same
> rides everywhere and the Premier way is just
> wrong. I know other parks do it too and I
> dont agree with them, but they stop at one
> or two more, but not old Premier. As far as
> SFA becoming bigger and better than PKD,
> that is a joke. SFA has many issues to deal
> with that PKD doesnt, such as horrible
> patrons. Heck, SFA doesnt even bother to
> clean up the trash in the park before they
> open, I bet there may be some trash lieing
> around in a few remote places from last
> season there right now. The rides there are
> avg at best and you cant get many rides in a
> day, their capacity is horrible. When I talk
> to people around Richmond who have actually
> been to SFA or Adventure World, the typical
> saying is "NEVER AGAIN". That
> tells me all I need to know. Danny

*** I feel that SFA has done a ton more work on their park than PKD in the last 2 years. Actually 3 years (when it was Adventure World). SFA has gotten Roar, Two Face, JJ, and now S:ROS in the past 3 years. What has PKD done? The overrated Volcano with one exciting element. Its got a great launch, but that's it. A few slow heartline inversions and its time to get off and head over to another coaster under 3000 feet. PKD went 2 consecutive years without anything major (except the water park, which doesn't interest me). I would consider going back once they get something that makes me interested in going. A great flying coaster would be good, or maybe a GOOD inverted. Hopefully their next coaster (whenever that may be) will exceed 3000 feet.

Zimm

Re: New coaster at 6 Flags America? (Largo Marylan by Jeff Tolotti at 4/4/00 10:06:44 PM

> No, but Roar was an original design.
> Therefore, it couldnt be a clone!

True, but it also wasn't SFA/AW/Premier's design - GCI had it done in 96, and the only change made to that design was the slight bending of the brake run (it had been straight, and now it has that kink in it after the first brakes). So it was basically a stock model. (Compare to Rock-n-Roller Coaster - now a Vekoma stock model.) The changes to Roar for SFMW are somewhat interesting - virtually ALL of the hills have been tweaked a little, with the station end of the ride being lower than the first drop. I believe the actual footprint is the same though, except the station and brake run area which is at a very different angle. The profile includes two small hills that aren't on SFA's. A recent issue of RollerCoaster! had a VERY good article by Steven Wilson on SFMW's Roar, and I believe it said they originally wanted to go with a clone but due to the site they went ahead and made it fit a little better.

It's all pretty moot anyway, because Premier is only installing one new major coaster that's a clone in the US in 2000. The rest are all quite unique.

Jeff

Re: New coaster at 6 Flags America? (Largo Marylan by Danny Biggerstaff (CoAsTeRDaN) at 4/4/00 10:12:32 PM

Danny I'm gonna play devils advocate here.from
> what i have gathered,you believe that
> premier parks,especially SFA, is cheap and
> put in clones, or almost clones, in their
> parks.Well how about we look at our beloved
> PKD. Shockwave and King Cobra are nearly
> identical.same with the Grizzly and Wilde
> Beaste. What im trying to say is so what if
> there has been more than one Roar.There are
> plenty of Batman clones and they're not all
> at premier parks (dont forget great white at
> sea world).what about Raptor(cedar
> fair).theres a clone over in japan i
> believe.see, not just premier puts in copies
> of rides.you could even go as far as saying
> diamond falls is a clone of every other
> shoot-the-chutes.heck, what about the eiffel
> tower,why not classify that as a clone. my
> point is, it doesnt matter if there are more
> than one model of an attraction,be glad its
> there.batman,raptor,roar, and s:ros are all
> fun rides.instead of always ragging on SFA
> and premier,be thankful we have these parks
> instead of some housing developments or mini
> malls. just my 2 cents Themak

Yes yes yes, I know other parks put in clones, including PKD, but again... WHO mentioned PKD? These SFA topics always turn into PKD stuff. Anyway... I would much rather have a mini mall where SFA is. "Shopping For America" Danny

CoAsTeRDaNs PaRk

Re: New coaster at 6 Flags America? (Largo Marylan by Danny Biggerstaff (CoAsTeRDaN) at 4/4/00 10:14:07 PM

Danny I'm gonna play devils advocate here.from
> what i have gathered,you believe that
> premier parks,especially SFA, is cheap and
> put in clones, or almost clones, in their
> parks.Well how about we look at our beloved
> PKD. Shockwave and King Cobra are nearly
> identical.same with the Grizzly and Wilde
> Beaste. What im trying to say is so what if
> there has been more than one Roar.There are
> plenty of Batman clones and they're not all
> at premier parks (dont forget great white at
> sea world).what about Raptor(cedar
> fair).theres a clone over in japan i
> believe.see, not just premier puts in copies
> of rides.you could even go as far as saying
> diamond falls is a clone of every other
> shoot-the-chutes.heck, what about the eiffel
> tower,why not classify that as a clone. my
> point is, it doesnt matter if there are more
> than one model of an attraction,be glad its
> there.batman,raptor,roar, and s:ros are all
> fun rides.instead of always ragging on SFA
> and premier,be thankful we have these parks
> instead of some housing developments or mini
> malls. just my 2 cents Themak

Yes yes yes, I know other parks put in clones, including PKD, but again... WHO mentioned PKD? These SFA topics always turn into PKD stuff. Anyway... I would much rather have a mini mall where SFA is. "Shopping For America" Danny

CoAsTeRDaNs PaRk

Re:More on Roar by Danny Biggerstaff (CoAsTeRDaN) at 4/4/00 10:18:27 PM

_______ Oh yeah, Roar at SFA IS NOT a clone. It
> is the original. Only the coasters following
> it using the same design carry the clone
> distinction. So while there is another copy
> of it, the SFA version is not a clone. -- K

That is YOUR opinion of what a clone is. I think that any ride that is a duplicate is a clone, I dont care when it was built. If I can ride it in two or more places, its a clone. Yes, I will say they put it in first. But come one, do you not think that the other was not already planned??? Danny

CoAsTeRDaN's PaRk

Re: What has PKD done lately???? by Danny Biggerstaff (CoAsTeRDaN) at 4/4/00 10:28:14 PM

> Just because a ride is built in a different
> year *** I feel that SFA has done a ton
> more work on their park than PKD in the last
> 2 years. Actually 3 years (when it was
> Adventure World). SFA has gotten Roar, Two
> Face, JJ, and now S:ROS in the past 3 years.
> What has PKD done?

First off, this topic was about SFA, not PKD, but I will play the game. PKD has added things EVERY year in its existence. What has SFA added since its existence? SFA HAS to add a lot now to play catch up with PKD. PKD is still WAY ahead in every aspect of a park over SFA. And they are still adding.

>The overrated Volcano
> with one exciting element. Its got a great
> launch, but that's it.

That is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. I will take Volcano over anything at SFA.

>A few slow heartline
> inversions and its time to get off and head
> over to another coaster under 3000 feet. PKD
> went 2 consecutive years without anything
> major (except the water park, which doesn't
> interest me).

Well it interested a lot of people, their attendance grew a lot last year. I happen to agree with you though, overall I dont care about water parks that much. But it does make it feel complete.

>I would consider going back
> once they get something that makes me
> interested in going. A great flying coaster
> would be good, or maybe a GOOD inverted.
> Hopefully their next coaster (whenever that
> may be) will exceed 3000 feet. Zimm

Well, next year will be something fairly big deal on the east coast. Thats about all I will say for now. (yes, would love for PKD to get a long steel) Danny

Re: New coaster at 6 Flags America? (Largo Marylan by Schrecken Schrecken Profile at 4/4/00 11:55:57 PM

> Just because a ride is built in a different
> year No, but Roar was an original design.
> Therefore, it couldnt be a clone! Whats 8
> feet The size of ur ego...at least SFA has
> added more coasters to its lineup than both
> of the major parks in VA combined the past 3
> seasons (98,99,00) My point Why is it
> wrong? Dont like, dont go. I know other
> parks do it too and I Like Paramount???
> but they stop at one Outer Limits, Grizzly,
> Hurler, Eiffel Towers...not to mention the
> Thrill Zone or whatever its correct name
> is...thats more than 2. As far as What
> makes the patrons horrible? Why do u think u
> are better than the other patrons...I sure
> dont. Heck, SFA doesnt even bother to Did
> u purposely place trash behind obscure
> objects so you could post this statement?
> The rides there are As far as flat rides?
> Other parks, non Premier have them
> too...IMO, PKD doesnt have enough of a flat
> ride arsenal. And when you go to a park
> that changes it name and adds to new
> coasters in a season, then decide to go on
> opening day...of course you arent going to
> get many rides. I dont know what u are
> talking about as far as that goes...I dont
> think I stood in a line longer than 20
> minutes all of last year...actually I take
> that back...I stood in line for Roar with
> Bob Hooley for 40 minutes. When I talk
> Good, make my waiting time even shorter!
> GR8 Ump!

I agree you, GR8 Ump, this is the way I remember SFA back when I had a season pass (I moved away and haven't been there in two years). It's good to know that many disagree with Danny, but regardless I will go this June and see for myself. You know how it is, some people have a bad experience with something or someone and nothing can change future opinion. Hopefully it will be close to what I remember. And someone said they had horrible steel coasters - yes, they are definately clones, but I happen to like Vekoma SLC's and Invertigo coasters. I only rode OL:FoF once and while it wasn't high in my ranking, it wasn't the pitts, either.

Schrecken

Re: Actually, I did by KMAN KMAN Profile at 4/5/00 12:20:09 AM

> Danny I'm gonna play devils advocate
> here.from Yes yes yes, I know other parks
> put in clones, including PKD, but again...
> WHO mentioned PKD? These SFA topics always
> turn into PKD stuff. Anyway... I would much
> rather have a mini mall where SFA is.
> "Shopping For America" Danny

_______

I was the one who brought up the PKD issue to draw a comparison you could relate to being that you are very well aquainted with PKD. It's easier to voice an opinion if the other person has a good reference point to look at.

Actually, there are way too many mini malls near SFA that you should visit next time you are in the Largo area since that is what you would prefer to do. ;-) --K

Re:More on Roar by KMAN KMAN Profile at 4/5/00 12:28:19 AM

> _______ Oh yeah, Roar at SFA IS NOT a clone.
> It That is YOUR opinion of what a clone is.
> I think that any ride that is a duplicate is
> a clone, I dont care when it was built. If I
> can ride it in two or more places, its a
> clone. Yes, I will say they put it in first.
> But come one, do you not think that the
> other was not already planned??? Danny

_________

And anyways, SFMW Roar is not the same as SFA's edition. It has a hill not in SFA's version and slightly tighter turns. --K

Re: What has PKD done lately???? by GR8 Ump at 4/5/00 1:19:28 AM

> Just because a ride is built in a different
> year *** I feel that SFA has done a ton
> more work on their park than PKD in the last
> 2 years. Actually 3 years (when it was
> Adventure World). SFA has gotten Roar, Two
> Face, JJ, and now S:ROS in the past 3 years.
> What has PKD done?

Dont forget the new family coaster in 99 and the seacoaster in 97 =)

Re: What has PKD done lately???? by GR8 Ump at 4/5/00 1:29:48 AM

First off, this topic was about SFA, not PKD,
> but I will play the game.

There is a first for everything eh?

PKD has added
> things EVERY year in its existence.

What has
> SFA added since its existence?

Easy answer...SFA has only been in exsistence for a little over a year. In a year, they have added Joker's Jinx, Two Face, The family coaster, Superman, a few flat rides...need I go on?

Well, next year will
> be something fairly big deal on the east
> coast. Thats about all I will say for now.

Is that because u really dont know?

GR8 Ump

Dictionary Definition of a Clone by Sam A. Marks at 4/5/00 8:38:40 AM

2 : one that appears to be a copy of an original form

There you have it, ROAR is NOT a CLONE

SAM

My ROAR page

Clones by Bruce Jensen at 4/5/00 11:06:36 AM

Dan B. wrote:

> Just because Roar at SFA was first
> doesnt mean its not a clone if there are
> others like it...

I respectfully beg to differ. A "cloned" ride implies that it was "genetically duplicated" or in this case "architecturally duplicated" from an earlier incarnation. A clone is not possible without a predecessor. Roar West "could" have been a clone if it matched Roar East's specs to within pretty close tolerances and layout, which it does not. Roar East is plainly a variation on earlier twister designs, which brings me to...

As far as similarities go, evolution is a better way to describe the Hersheypark Wildcat / Roar East / Roar West progression, and in fact, the Gwazi and Lightning Racer developments could be put into the same lineage, basically, ever more convoluted knots of track. I'm not saying that rides are the same, rather, that they show an evolution of the thinking of the GCI designers. In order to break this lineage (if that is even wanted, which I would caution against since I think this type of coaster is desirable), GCI would have to alter it's thinking to avoid most twister-like elements and start putting in airtime or other severe force as the ride's trademark. Then, a new family of rides would be created.

Bruce Jensen

Re:More on Roar by Bruce Jensen at 4/5/00 11:14:11 AM

KMAN wrote:

_________ And anyways, SFMW Roar is not the
> same as SFA's edition. It has a hill not in
> SFA's version and slightly tighter turns.
> --K

I agree - it is more accurately termed an evolution, as I described above. I believe that both Roars are evolutions of the same blueprint that spawned the Wildcat at HP, and are members of the same family of rides. They are not, however, clones, nor are the Superman rides clones.

I think that Dan has a very broad view of what constitutes a "clone," which I believe many of us do not share. I have no problem with this point of view, especially when one thinks in terms of wanting many different rides, but I think that each ride is different enough to merit individual ride status.

Boomerangs and Invertigos are clones...Batmans and Vekoma SLCs may in general be clones...but the woodies cited, and the Supermen in question, are not.

Bruce Jensen

Re: Clones by Flare at 4/5/00 11:31:55 AM

Bruce...

I totally agree... Cloning of any medium constitutes reproduction resulting in a substanative material appearing to be a copy of an *original* form.

Roar is an ORIGINAL....it AINT no CLONE...lol...

:-)

Dave *who's used the term *near clone* loosely in the past, but no longer...*

Re: New coaster at 6 Flags America? (Largo Marylan by Danny at 4/5/00 11:58:09 AM

Hey Danny...

You're pretty HARSH... I wouldn't be surprised if they put your picture on their PR dartboard... Just my opinion, and not a flame.

I re-iterate... Perhaps you should stay away from a park you feels should RATHER be a shopping mall...

lol... *is this guy for real???*

Dave *Who's had bad experiences at the BEST of parks, but AINT gonna *trash* talk them publicly...*

Well then what about..... by Chris at 4/5/00 1:13:14 PM

Do you feel Shockwave at SFGAm and Viper an SFMM are clones? I feel they are close enough to be considered clones.

Re:More on Roar by Jeff Tolotti at 4/5/00 1:32:17 PM

> I believe that both Roars
> are evolutions of the same blueprint that
> spawned the Wildcat at HP

I don't really see that - the only element that both have is the fourth, which is the right rise, swoop turn, and diving left drop. Their footprints are quite different as well. But yes, they are clearly in the same "family."

> They are not,
> however, clones, nor are the Superman rides
> clones.

I still consider SFA's a clone of SFDL's. Even if it is slightly scaled down, you won't notice that while riding. EVERYTHING was left the same as SFDL's in terms of footprint and elements, right down to the too-short brake run which required placing a trim on the second to last hill. If they had compensated for that (although that would have been tough to do since they fabricated the ride before SFDL's opened) then I might think differently.

Jeff

Re: Enough already by sparky sparky Profile at 4/5/00 2:57:13 PM

> Do you feel Shockwave at SFGAm and Viper an
> SFMM are clones? I feel they are close
> enough to be considered clones.

Does everyone have a right to opinion? YES.

My feeling is that SFA's Roar, although a ride that came off a nearly 2 year old drawing board is not a clone, even if SFMW's was originally planned to be an exact duplicate. If SFMW's was an EXACT duplicate, then yes, I would feel SFA's was the first in a line of "clones".

On Viper at SFMM, it is a completely original design, thanks greatly to the topography of the Baja Ridge area of the park. The only thing it and Shockwave at SFGAM (and SFGADV's GASM) have in common are order of inversions (three vertical, boomerang following the block brake, and a double corkscrew.

As per clones, Shockwave at SFGAM and SFGADV's GASM are nearly identical with the exception of one minor difference- Arrow tried to correct the violent entrance to Shockwave's block on GASM by having both of the two vertical loops heading into the block enter on the left and exit on the right to allow for a wider sweep onto the blocks. Shockwave's third vertical enters on the right and exits on the left leaving less space for the turn onto the brakes. GASM is listed at 173' while Shockwave is at 170', but both have track lengths of about 3800 ft- I would consider those two rides clones.

-sparky

Re: Dictionary Definition of a Clone by Danny Biggerstaff (CoAsTeRDaN) at 4/5/00 4:56:45 PM

> 2 : one that appears to be a copy of an
> original form There you have it, ROAR is
> NOT a CLONE SAM

In your opinion. Again, my point was PREMIER does nothing but put in clones... If they venture out and find a new design that works (such as Roar), then THEY CLONE IT. Which they did. If I can ride the same basic ride somewhere else, to ME its a clone. TO ME is what counts to ME.

Danny

CoAsTeRDaN's PaRk

Re:More on Roar by Danny Biggerstaff (CoAsTeRDaN) at 4/5/00 5:00:42 PM

_________ And anyways, SFMW Roar is not the
> same as SFA's edition. It has a hill not in
> SFA's version and slightly tighter turns.
> --K

Well Gee, I guess that changes everything. One hill difference and tighter turns... THAT MAKES THE RIDE a totally DIFFERENT RIDE THEN ! (rolling eyes...) Look at the basic layout from above, its just about the same. Runout is different. Danny

CoAsTeRDaN's PaRk

Re: What has PKD done lately???? by Danny Biggerstaff (CoAsTeRDaN) at 4/5/00 5:15:38 PM

> Easy answer...SFA
> has only been in exsistence for a little
> over a year. In a year, they have added
> Joker's Jinx, Two Face, The family coaster,
> Superman, a few flat rides...need I go on?

Fine ump, fine... What has, WILD WORLD, ADVENTURE WORLD, SFA ADDED EVERY YEAR SINCE IT OPENED? I happen to have a list of KD's, PKD's, should I get it?

> Is that because u
> really dont know?

Ump, lets put it like this. In this industry you can make friends in high places. Sometimes they trust you with information that has not yet been released. I do not claim to be a know it all about every little park in the world. I just happen to know a few people in a few places. The way you keep getting info is by not spilling the beans.

Danny

CoAsTeRDaN's PaRk

Re: Here we go.... by Danny Biggerstaff (CoAsTeRDaN) at 4/5/00 5:21:03 PM

> Just because a ride is built in a different
> year __________ Actually only the SFA and
> SFDL versions are similar. As far as the
> Superman rides being the same thing: SFNE
> S:ROS Hyper is a completely different layout
> than SFDL or SFA. S:UE is an inverted
> shuttle, S:KC is a floorless, and S:TE is a
> shuttle. The "Superman Rides" are
> overall not the same thing at all.
> ___________ My point ___________ I am not
> a big Premier fan either, but I bet if any
> other ownership like Cedar Fair or Paramount
> had as many parks they would be forced to
> install some clones in. ___________ As far
> as __________ SFA has more available land
> than PKD, so the bigger issue is completely
> feasable. __________ SFA has many issues
> to deal ___________ I agree with you on
> this definitely! ___________ The rides
> there are __________ Yes, SFA has HORRIBLE
> steel coasters. But, S:ROS will probably be
> the best coaster at either PKD or SFA. PKD
> has better steel coasters, but aside from
> V:TBC their steel coasters not spectacular
> either. And Roar and Grizzly are both
> excellent and Wild One is better than RY or
> Hurler IMO. Keep in mind that I am not
> overly fond of SFA right now. I love PKD and
> have been going there for 16 years now. But,
> to expect a small park to make a smooth
> transition to a major themer in one summer
> is asking a little much. I suspect it will
> take all of this summer to get SFA near
> where it needs to be. And yes, I see a very
> distinct possibility that in 3-5 years SFA
> will be the bigger park and be operating on
> a quality level near or at PKD in that time
> span. Not to disagree with everything you're
> saying, but I see an argument with a lot of
> holes in it and no real evidence in your
> opinion other than a bad visit or two or
> word of mouth. --K

As far as land goes, I do not know what SFA owns, I do however know that PKD is not landlocked and has lots they can use, so I dont think SFA can get "bigger". I dont think the Wild One is better than the Hurler, I do think it is better than the Rebel Yell. I have been to SFA, AW about an avg of 7 times a year since 1994, I liked it the first few visits, then things starting going bad and never got better. I would say my last 20 or more visits were poor. Danny

CoAsTeRDaN's PaRk

Re: Dictionary Definition of a Clone by SAM A. MARKS at 4/5/00 6:38:17 PM

In your opinion. Again

NEGATIVE

DICTIONARIES ARE NOT OPINIONS! THEY ARE FACTS P E R I O D

Re: Dictionary Definition of a Clone by Danny Biggerstaff (CoAsTeRDaN) at 4/5/00 9:09:06 PM

> In your opinion. Again NEGATIVE
> DICTIONARIES ARE NOT OPINIONS! THEY ARE
> FACTS P E R I O D

In your opinion... I don't believe everything I read. They are not FACTS, different dictionaries have different definitions.

CoAsTeRDaN's PaRk

Re: Dictionary Definition of a Clone by S W at 4/5/00 9:23:51 PM

You dont believe what the dictionary says?

Re: Will you just be quiet, Dan? by CU@BGW at 4/5/00 10:34:14 PM

For someone that dislikes SFA so much, you certainly seem to talk about it a lot. Nevermind how many season passes you have scanned on to your page from Adventure World...

PKD is a great park, but it's not the be all end all that you make it out to be. I've been treated rudely at PKD, and I've seen trash there. I've been one ride away from getting on Volcano after waiting in line for an hour. But do I go on a childish rant about the place every chance I get? NO.

I don't know about you, but I go to amusement parks to ride the rides and have a good time, not find things to berate about them. All I ever see from you is how great PKD is and how lousy SFA is. Whenever I see your name on a thread, I already know if it will be praise or berating depending if the topic is SFA or PKD related. Get some new material for crying out loud...

Why don't you squeeze back into the Taxi Jam and think about it before you ride the big kid's coasters again. You may be in your mid 20's, but judging solely on your posts, you sound like a kid who got his lollipop taken away at SFA once and held a grudge for life.

Clone Dispute by Flare at 4/5/00 11:04:27 PM

On Viper at SFMM, it
> is a completely original design, thanks
> greatly to the topography of the Baja Ridge
> area of the park. The only thing it and
> Shockwave at SFGAM (and SFGADV's GASM) have
> in common are order of inversions (three
> vertical, boomerang following the block
> brake, and a double corkscrew. -sparky

I tend to disagree...having ridden all 3 you are discussing. I feel SFMM's Viper, though better fitting the land it sits on, and having different specs... offers a fairly similar ride, all things considered, imo... Therefore, i find the *design* comment a stretch...the layout is nearly identical in *format*...nullifying it's uniqueness for me... Like you said...and i'll add the spiral first drop...loop, turnaround or *turn* 2 loops...brake...boomerang...double corkscrew...run out to brakes... real close to me. :-)

Dave

Re: Well then what about..... by Bruce Jensen at 4/6/00 12:01:22 PM

Hi -

> Do you feel Shockwave at SFGAm and Viper an
> SFMM are clones? I feel they are close
> enough to be considered clones.

Well, I've never seen Shockwave up close and personal, but from the pix I've seen, if someone told me they were identical I couldn't argue. One may well be a clone (Viper, I'd expect, since I think it came second), although I understand that Viper presently runs better by a good margin than Shockwave...does that "declone" them? :-)

Bruce Jensen

Re:More on Roar by Bruce Jensen at 4/6/00 12:06:17 PM

Hi, Jeff - you wrote:

> I don't really see that - the only element that
> both have is the fourth, which is the right
> rise, swoop turn, and diving left drop.
> Their footprints are quite different as
> well. But yes, they are clearly in the same
> "family."

This is probably more accurate still...in this case, the word "family" probably applies better than "evolution." I agree that the layout is quite different.

> I still consider SFA's
> a clone of SFDL's. Even if it is slightly
> scaled down, you won't notice that while
> riding. EVERYTHING was left the same as
> SFDL's in terms of footprint and elements,
> right down to the too-short brake run which
> required placing a trim on the second to
> last hill. If they had compensated for that
> (although that would have been tough to do
> since they fabricated the ride before SFDL's
> opened) then I might think differently.

Well, this is also a good point. I guess I'll split hairs here and opine that the size difference is significant enough to make them different, but with the mentioned elements as obnoxiously the same as the first, it's a fine point, I'll admit. I'm looking forward to riding to my first S:ROS at SFNE in June or July, and whether cloned or not, I just bet I'll like it!

Bruce Jensen

Re: New coaster at 6 Flags America? (Largo Marylan by PA at 4/6/00 1:12:14 PM

> So it was basically a stock model.

Using this philosphy, GCI's first coaster, Wildcat at Hersheypark, is a stock model and therefore must be a clone.

GCI had shopped around coaster designs for some time before Hershey decided to go with and build the Wildcat. This was not an original design for (to) Hershey. In essence, it was a stock model. And in acutality, the same holds true for Lightning Racer, the new GCi woodie going up now in Hershey. This design has been in GCI's briefcase and is not new.

-PA

Re: New coaster at 6 Flags America? (Largo Marylan by Jeff Tolotti at 4/6/00 4:09:18 PM

> Using this philosphy, GCI's first coaster,
> Wildcat at Hersheypark, is a stock model and
> therefore must be a clone. GCI had shopped
> around coaster designs for some time before
> Hershey decided to go with and build the
> Wildcat. This was not an original design for
> (to) Hershey.

Interesting, considering Wildcat uses a bit of terrain. But I didn't say "clone" in this case, simply "stock model" - until a second is made, clearly there are no clones.

Jeff

Re:More on Roar by Jeff Tolotti at 4/6/00 4:11:26 PM

> I guess I'll split hairs
> here and opine that the size difference is
> significant enough to make them different,
> but with the mentioned elements as
> obnoxiously the same as the first, it's a
> fine point, I'll admit. I'm looking forward
> to riding to my first S:ROS at SFNE in June
> or July, and whether cloned or not, I just
> bet I'll like it!

SFNE's is *NOT* a clone at all! :) It's everything the original had with twice as many hills.

Jeff

Re: New coaster at 6 Flags America? (Largo Marylan by PA at 4/7/00 7:56:28 AM

Interesting, considering Wildcat uses a bit of
> terrain. But I didn't say "clone"
> in this case, simply "stock model"
> - until a second is made, clearly there are
> no clones. Jeff

My mistake, Jeff. I inadvertantly brought in the 'clone' discussion from further up in this thread needlessly.

Both the original Wildcat and Roar plans were 'shopped around' at IAAPA before showing up at a park. I'm quite sure modifications were made to fit both in the required footprint and terrain, though admittidly I'm not 100% sure on that point.

-PA

Re: New coaster at 6 Flags America? (Largo Marylan by Danny Biggerstaff (CoAsTeRDaN) at 4/7/00 5:04:40 PM

> Hey Danny... You're pretty HARSH... I
> wouldn't be surprised if they put your
> picture on their PR dartboard...

So be it, but you know what. I wouldn't be suprised if they did. They are too concerned over little things like that then just FIXING the problems they have. Its a novel of problems, but they could start somewhere...

>Just my
> opinion, and not a flame. I re-iterate...
> Perhaps you should stay away from a park you
> feels should RATHER be a shopping mall...

I dont go that often. I will go once, maybe twice this year, one, to ride Superman, two, just to see how SFA is doing. Maybe they will suprise me with a great park. (could that really happen?)

> lol... *is this guy for real???*

Very much so.

>Dave
> *Who's had bad experiences at the BEST of
> parks, but AINT gonna *trash* talk them
> publicly...*

Then you must be scared to share your true feelings, therefore if you only talk about good your opinion becomes void. At least in my eyes.

Danny

CoAsTeRDaN's PaRk

Re: Will you just be quiet, Dan? by Danny Biggerstaff (CoAsTeRDaN) at 4/7/00 5:15:23 PM

> For someone that dislikes SFA so much, you
> certainly seem to talk about it a lot.

Yes, because I make a point out of telling people how bad it is there. Guess what, many dont go. They lose money, and when that happens, they have to do a better job. I can make recommendations for people not to go.

> Nevermind how many season passes you have
> scanned on to your page from Adventure
> World...

HUH? What does that have to do with anything and what are you talking about?

> PKD is a great park, but it's not
> the be all end all that you make it out to
> be.

I ask you to go back and find anything I have posted about PKD (and this so called, "how great it is")manner. There is a lot of people on here who just assume because I live near PKD that I think its the EVERYTHING park. I am happy with it, but I never said it was THE BEST EVER. As I said, I challange you to go back and find it, look at the last year or even year and a half if you would. I think its funny that some of you people get that idea, you bring it on yourselves.

> I've been treated rudely at PKD, and
> I've seen trash there. I've been one ride
> away from getting on Volcano after waiting
> in line for an hour. But do I go on a
> childish rant about the place every chance I
> get? NO. I don't know about you, but I go
> to amusement parks to ride the rides and
> have a good time, not find things to berate
> about them.

I have plenty of fun at parks. And when I am at SFA, part of the fun is seeing how poor they are ! We actually get a kick out of it.

> All I ever see from you is how
> great PKD is and how lousy SFA is.

Well guess what, I can call you a fibber ! As I said, I hardly EVER talk about PKD, and I dont talk about how "great" they are when I do talk about it on a board. Please, go back and find it... Show us all, would ya?

> Whenever
> I see your name on a thread, I already know
> if it will be praise or berating depending
> if the topic is SFA or PKD related. Get some
> new material for crying out loud...

No, you dont have to click on the blue hyper links beside my name.

> Why
> don't you squeeze back into the Taxi Jam and
> think about it before you ride the big kid's
> coasters again.

Trying to be insulting huh? I guess that is to be expected from someone hiding behind a screen name and won't sign a post. I guess your scared to be you.

>You may be in your mid 20's,
> but judging solely on your posts, you sound
> like a kid who got his lollipop taken away
> at SFA once and held a grudge for life.

Nope, just dont like SFA, and I have EVERY right to hate it and have EVERY right to recommend people not go there. My hate towards the park is the parks fault. Yes, I have a grudge and it will take that place working VERY hard to break it, they havnt even made a dent.

Danny (see, I can sign my name)

CoAsTeRDaN's PaRk

Re: Will you just be quiet, Dan? by S W at 4/7/00 8:32:54 PM

I am sorry that you have had a few bad times at SFA, but I would really like it if you not rag on them so much. I have had the worst time of my life at PKD(not kidding) last year, and I will never go back to that back, but you dont see me telling everyone here not to go, and all the bad things that happened to me there. No, I just keep my mouth shut, becuase every now and then, some bad things happen to people at parks, and it sounds like many bad things happened to you at SFA. As a matter of fact, I told my best friend how great CP was, and he came back and was not happy. You make it sound like more people walk out of that park with a frown on their face, insted of a smile, which is not true. All that I am really saying is that since someone rained on your parade, doesn't mean that you have to rain on others.

Re: Will you just be quiet, Dan? by Jeff Tolotti at 4/7/00 9:27:08 PM

> I am sorry that you have had a few bad times
> at SFA, but I would really like it if you
> not rag on them so much.

You do not have to click on any posts made by Danny Biggerstaff.

You do not have to listen to a word he says.

Furthermore, you do not own this site, and do not control what the rules are. If Eric wants to say "no ragging on SFA" then that's his right. It is not yours.

Jeff

Re: Will you just be quiet, Dan? by Danny Biggerstaff (CoAsTeRDaN) at 4/8/00 9:03:56 AM

> I am sorry that you have had a few bad times
> at SFA, but I would really like it if you
> not rag on them so much. I have had the
> worst time of my life at PKD(not kidding)
> last year, and I will never go back to that
> back, but you dont see me telling everyone
> here not to go, and all the bad things that
> happened to me there. No, I just keep my
> mouth shut, becuase every now and then, some
> bad things happen to people at parks, and it
> sounds like many bad things happened to you
> at SFA. As a matter of fact, I told my best
> friend how great CP was, and he came back
> and was not happy. You make it sound like
> more people walk out of that park with a
> frown on their face, insted of a smile,
> which is not true. All that I am really
> saying is that since someone rained on your
> parade, doesn't mean that you have to rain
> on others.

I have the right too and I will keep on doing so. I dont like SFA and they have horrible service and I will make sure everyone knows it until they change. SFA rains on their own parade. I could care less if you ever went to PKD or not, I dont make money off it. I just dont want SFA to continue making money and treating guests as bad as they do. Danny

CoAsTeRDaN's PaRk