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The great woodie debate!!

chitlins73 chitlins73 Profile

Posted:
9/4/13 at
6:14:46 PM

So I figured that I should start a new thread about which coasters should be considered wood and which should be labeled steel. I see they consider The Texas Giant and Iron Rattler steel and Goliath and Outlaw Run wood. What does everyone else on here think? I would like to hear some opinions.

I know that these new so called RMC woodies have inversions but Hades 360 is really the only true woodie with a loop. Correct??

Re: The great woodie debate!! by Eric_Gieszl Eric_Gieszl Profile at 9/4/13 9:11:34 PM
I don't think there is any debate here.

Traditional wood roller coasters incorporate a steel track atop the wood layers.

There is no debating that Iron Horse Track® or I-Box is steel track.

Topper Track used for Goliath and Outlaw Run is close to traditional wood track, but uses the special steel box atop the wood layers.

* This post was modified at 9/4/13 9:13:00 PM *

Re: The great woodie debate!! by chitlins73 chitlins73 Profile at 9/4/13 9:38:45 PM
So is Hades 360 the only true woodie with a loop??
Re: The great woodie debate!! by Overbanked Overbanked Profile at 9/4/13 10:32:44 PM
^^^IMO wooden coasters that uses limited steel specifically for inversion support (ie Outlaw Run, SOB w/loop) are still woodies.
Re: The great woodie debate!! by chitlins73 chitlins73 Profile at 9/4/13 11:06:11 PM
How is the Hades inversion done?
Re: The great woodie debate!! by Overbanked Overbanked Profile at 9/4/13 11:44:34 PM
Hades 360 has continuous laminated wooden track through the inversion.

www.rcdb.com/2667.htm?p=45033

Outlaw Run has mostly wooden support throughout it's inversion.

www.rcdb.com/10582.htm?p=44532

IMO they are wooden coasters without a doubt.

* This post was modified at 9/4/13 11:47:59 PM *

Re: The great woodie debate!! by SirWillow SirWillow Profile at 9/5/13 9:28:17 AM
It's not the support system that matters. Doesn't matter if it's held up by wood, steel, or whatever.

it's the track that matters.

If the foundation of the track is stacks of wood, topped by steel, then it's a woodie. Every wood coaster out there has steel on top of the wood to prevent the train from destroying it. Usually it's a steel plate layer about 1/2 to 1 inch thick, but it may be the steel tube on top. Regardless, if it's on that wood foundation, it's wood. If the foundation of the track is steel, then it's steel.

Outlaw Run and the new Goliath have a foundation of stacked wood for the track, therefore they are wood. The rest of the structure is irrelevant.

Now a case could be made for Colossus at SFMM no longer being wood or being a hybrid as so much of it's track has been replaced with steel ibeam. Sadly, it's more of a steel coaster now than Outlaw Run is.

Re: The great woodie debate!! by drachen drachen Profile at 9/5/13 2:03:30 PM
Does Outlaw Run have steel wheels? Or are they of the -thane variety?
drachen
Coaster to Park Ratio: 4.90 / Steel to Wooden Ratio: 2.55 / Wooden Coaster Percentage: 28.2%
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Re: The great woodie debate!! by Rollercoaster_freak220 Rollercoaster_freak220 Profile at 9/5/13 3:07:34 PM
Outlaw Run does indeed have steel wheels. When I went to the media event for the announcement, one of the records they were advertising was 2nd fastest wooden coaster, but the fastest on steel wheels.
Re: The great woodie debate!! by chitlins73 chitlins73 Profile at 9/5/13 5:37:33 PM
Thanks for all this input. I think it is really interesting learning what makes a coaster wood or steel besides the obvious of course.
Re: The great woodie debate!! by drachen drachen Profile at 9/5/13 6:27:37 PM
Rollercoaster_freak220 said:

Outlaw Run does indeed have steel wheels. When I went to the media event for the announcement, one of the records they were advertising was 2nd fastest wooden coaster, but the fastest on steel wheels.

I thought so. I wonder what Goliath will have. I've heard it will not be steel.

drachen
Coaster to Park Ratio: 4.90 / Steel to Wooden Ratio: 2.55 / Wooden Coaster Percentage: 28.2%
Find me on Facebook... Search Park Connoisseur
Re: The great woodie debate!! by CoasterFanatic CoasterFanatic Profile at 9/5/13 8:25:26 PM
Overbanked said:

Hades 360 has continuous laminated wooden track through the inversion.


www.rcdb.com/2667.htm?p=45033

Outlaw Run has mostly wooden support throughout it's inversion.

www.rcdb.com/10582.htm?p=44532

IMO they are wooden coasters without a doubt.

IMHO the I-beam is steel coaster no doubt.

The topper can be used on Traditional Coasters with PTC or any train. However. RMC's Coasters use Urethane wheels. THIS IS QUESTIONABLE IMHO. as Wood coasters use steel wheels on Steel ribbon.

I also note Urethane wheels create more friction making the rides substantially shorter than they would be with steel on steel.

THERE IS NO FLEX to Topper unlike total wood laminate. Don't know why Goliath at SFGAm Don't excite me, But Mexican Medusa looks awesome.

Chuck

Charles Nungester 323 coasters and holding for two years now LOL Last coaster ride. HWN 2011
Re: The great woodie debate!! by SirWillow SirWillow Profile at 9/9/13 3:58:47 PM
CoasterFanatic said:

The topper can be used on Traditional Coasters with PTC or any train. However. RMC's Coasters use Urethane wheels. THIS IS QUESTIONABLE IMHO. as Wood coasters use steel wheels on Steel ribbon.

I also note Urethane wheels create more friction making the rides substantially shorter than they would be with steel on steel.

THERE IS NO FLEX to Topper unlike total wood laminate. Don't know why Goliath at SFGAm Don't excite me, But Mexican Medusa looks awesome.

Chuck

Wrong on two points here Chuck.

RMC used urethane on a couple of coasters, but Outlaw Run, as noted above and which is RMC, uses steel wheels.

And if you're again referencing Outlaw Run and it's topper track, there absolutely is flex in that track. I watch it move on a daily basis, and hear the comments from those not used to a wood coaster flexing and moving. It most certainly flexes.

Re: The great woodie debate!! by Absimilliard Absimilliard Profile at 9/9/13 7:01:53 PM
Chuck, I got this curve ball to throw at you regarding the urethane wheels too...

If a GCI that is built like every other ride from them run urethane wheels on its three trains, do you consider it a steel coaster?

Wodan at Europa Park in Germany was designed to take into account the urethane wheels on the trains. In order to figure that part out, GCI went on the Kentucky Rumbler and started swapping steel wheels on cars to calculate the energy loss the new wheels would cause. They stopped at 7 urethane wheels cars or else, the ride would have valleyed!

So, Wodan got a massive 141 feet tall lift hill, but limp back into the station after 3400 feet of track due to the wheels.

Re: The great woodie debate!! by CoasterFanatic CoasterFanatic Profile at 9/9/13 11:10:55 PM
Absimilliard said:

Chuck, I got this curve ball to throw at you regarding the urethane wheels too...


If a GCI that is built like every other ride from them run urethane wheels on its three trains, do you consider it a steel coaster?

Wodan at Europa Park in Germany was designed to take into account the urethane wheels on the trains. In order to figure that part out, GCI went on the Kentucky Rumbler and started swapping steel wheels on cars to calculate the energy loss the new wheels would cause. They stopped at 7 urethane wheels cars or else, the ride would have valleyed!

So, Wodan got a massive 141 feet tall lift hill, but limp back into the station after 3400 feet of track due to the wheels.

I don't know how this is a Curve to me, I just wouldn't consider a train running urethane wheels traditional wood coaster, No matter what the track was made of.

Didn't know Outlaw Run was Steel wheels. I thought considering Goliath was getting urethane that it was too.

Sorry, I've had no experience with these coasters. Only one I had a chance to ride was El Toro and I could get the bar, Not the belt. Brother said he'd say it was wood but it was just missing something. Still heck of a ride. But also short for its size.

Chuck

Charles Nungester 323 coasters and holding for two years now LOL Last coaster ride. HWN 2011
Re: The great woodie debate!! by Schrecken Schrecken Profile at 9/11/13 3:28:15 PM
The way I see it, any coaster that has the general appearance of a woodie should be considered to be a woodie, regardless of whether the framework is made out of steel (as in the case of the Voyage) or out of wood. I would consider any of the "new breed" of coaster like Iron Rattler, Outlaw Run and New Texas Giant, and the upcoming Goliath at SF Great America to also be woodies. But on the other hand, I'd be more likely to consider Gemini to be a steel coaster, simply because the track and trains are essentially what you have on all other Arrow coasters, and it rides like a non-inverting Arrow.

For me it boils down to the overall look of the coaster, and how the track and trains are set up. Even on NTG, OR and IR the width of the track rails and the look of the trains (even though they look nothing like a PTC train, IMO they look like they belong on a woodie and not a steel coaster) still say "wood coaster" to me, regardless of whether it is topper track or box track or whatever. Whereas, on Gemini, where the traditional woodie track and rails would be has been gutted (or rather, not even built in the first place in this case) and replaced with standard Arrow track.

So for me, if I ever get to ride any of these (I've been on Gemini and Excalibur at Valley fair and I'm putting those in my steel list) aforementioned coasters, they will be placed in my woodie list.

Re: The great woodie debate!! by HamptonRoadsRider HamptonRoadsRider Profile at 9/11/13 4:57:21 PM
^^^ Agree with above post. I've yet to ride any of the newer woodies with the newer design track and trains, but if it makes it smoother, that's fantastic. As long as it has the distinctive wooden frame and no OTSR, that's enough for me to call it a wooden coaster.

* This post was modified at 9/11/13 4:57:47 PM *

Re: The great woodie debate!! by chitlins73 chitlins73 Profile at 9/11/13 5:36:51 PM
I HIGHLY disagree with those last two posts. A traditional wooden coaster has a special feel to it. That dangerous, this could run off the track feel!! These new RMC coasters are baby ass smooth and feel nothing like a wooden coaster. They are even smoother than steel coasters. It is too smooth for me to really enjoy. There is no intensity to a coaster when it is that smooth.
Re: The great woodie debate!! by SirWillow SirWillow Profile at 9/12/13 10:29:23 PM
chitlins73 said:

I HIGHLY disagree with those last two posts. A traditional wooden coaster has a special feel to it. That dangerous, this could run off the track feel!! These new RMC coasters are baby ass smooth and feel nothing like a wooden coaster. They are even smoother than steel coasters. It is too smooth for me to really enjoy. There is no intensity to a coaster when it is that smooth.

Question- have you been on the coasters? If so, which ones?

I can't comment about the two in Texas, but I can tell you that Outlaw Run absolutely feels like a wood coaster. Smooth? Sure, but there are a number of wood coasters that are pretty smooth (Thunderhead, SCBB's Giant Dipper, and Phoenix come to mind right off the top of my head). Smoother than steel? Depends on the steel coaster.

And coasters are not classified by how they feel. They are classified by how their track is designed and what it's made of. I certainly understand calling the New Texas Giant a steel, or a hybrid. But that doesn't apply to Outlaw Run.

Re: The great woodie debate!! by chitlins73 chitlins73 Profile at 9/13/13 3:34:57 PM
I was in Texas this year to ride the New Texas Giant and the Iron Rattler. Now these are the two coasters that are now classified as steel. They were both very smooth!! I will be getting out to Silver Dollar City in May to ride Outlaw Run. I can't wait!! This is considered a wood coaster so I am sure I will enjoy it much better if it does not have the feel of the ones in Texas.
Re: The great woodie debate!! by Schrecken Schrecken Profile at 9/13/13 10:06:41 PM
El Toro is also very smooth compared to most woodies (smoothest woodie I've ever ridden), but I don't think too many people would consider it a steel coaster or not a woodie. Then again, there are some pretty rough non-inverting steelies out there (Magnum is the first that comes to mind) that can throw riders around, but clearly they are always considered to be steel coasters.

But I guess it boils down to each person's own personal count (if they are the kind of coaster enthusiast who keeps a ride count) and whether those coasters would be placed in the wood or steel category within that count.

Re: The great woodie debate!! by theRock-steel theRock-steel Profile at 9/14/13 7:03:52 AM
If the whole track is steel - it is a steel coaster. New Texas Giant is a steel coaster.

If there is just a thin layer of medal over several inches of wood the track is wood - the ride is a wood coaster. Outlaw Run is a wood coaster.