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Ultimate Rollercoaster > Discussion Forums > Roller Coasters, Parks & Attractions > Death on The New Texas Giant!

Death on The New Texas Giant!

chitlins73 chitlins73 Profile

Posted:
7/19/13 at
9:48:54 PM

Just got word that a woman was thrown off the Texas Giant and died.So crazy to hear this since I was just on that coaster a few weeks ago. I need to hear more about this.

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by drachen drachen Profile at 7/19/13 10:28:01 PM
chitlins73 said:

Just got word that a woman was thrown off the Texas Giant and died.So crazy to hear this since I was just on that coaster a few weeks ago. I need to hear more about this.

Link to the article below.

One woman said the woman's children were screaming when the train returned to the station that their mom was gone. Just awful. Thoughts and prayers to all involved.

Woman Killed on New Texas Giant

drachen
Coaster to Park Ratio: 4.87 / Steel to Wooden Ratio: 2.57 / Wooden Coaster Percentage: 28%
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Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by chitlins73 chitlins73 Profile at 7/19/13 10:34:52 PM
I just can't believe that this is not either rider or operator error.I have never heard of a restraint just popping up in the middle of a coaster ride. I just wanna know how this could happen!!
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by SirWillow SirWillow Profile at 7/19/13 10:48:13 PM
If you read the link above, it looks like her restraint wasn't secured. One click on them is not secure, and it may have popped open.

However, keep in mind that it is VERY early, and much is not going to be known yet. Early reports are often wrong- sometimes totally and completely. We can speculate, but it will be a while before we know for sure what happened.

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by drachen drachen Profile at 7/19/13 10:53:25 PM
SirWillow said:

If you read the link above, it looks like her restraint wasn't secured. One click on them is not secure, and it may have popped open.


However, keep in mind that it is VERY early, and much is not going to be known yet. Early reports are often wrong- sometimes totally and completely. We can speculate, but it will be a while before we know for sure what happened.

Yes, it's very early. Most often, the story that's not accurate is that of the first one to talk to the news camera.

drachen
Coaster to Park Ratio: 4.87 / Steel to Wooden Ratio: 2.57 / Wooden Coaster Percentage: 28%
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Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by chitlins73 chitlins73 Profile at 7/19/13 11:01:06 PM
Very true.....now I won't be able to sleep till I find out what really happened!!
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by SirWillow SirWillow Profile at 7/19/13 11:14:30 PM
chitlins73 said:

Very true.....now I won't be able to sleep till I find out what really happened!!

Then you probably won't be sleeping for a few weeks

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by LoneStar LoneStar Profile at 7/19/13 11:35:17 PM
I've probably gotten more rides in Rocky Mountain trains than most on this board, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the lap bars "click". I don't think they us a ratchet/gears. Aren't they pneumatic or air or hydraulic system or something?

I'll be on Iron Rattler next week (Gosh, I hope they don't shut that down) so I'll give yall an update. But don't Intamin lap bars, like on MF use a similar system?

- Pat-O

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by NotSo NotSo Profile at 7/20/13 12:16:19 AM
Bad day for rides, Shoot the Rapids at CP flipped and almost killed several people. Crazy.
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by Kumba2013 at 7/20/13 1:05:24 AM
To clear a few things up The New Texas Giant uses a hydraulic restraint system so there would be no "click". That woman was not correct.
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by Overbanked Overbanked Profile at 7/20/13 3:21:29 AM
Very sad. I can't imagine how distraught those children are.
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by JeffyJosephNCali at 7/20/13 4:51:00 AM
My thoughts & prayers go out to the family.
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by antikythera antikythera Profile at 7/20/13 12:04:55 PM
I have not had the chance to ride this thing, but many people are commenting on the ABC news story that they feel like the restraints on this ride are a bit too loose fitting.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/flags-texas-woman-dies-riding-texas-giant-rollercoaster/story?id=19720139

I'm pretty sure it's designed to feel insecure and many of us would probably pass it off as those individuals just feeling scared about their first time, but one has to wonder. I'd love to hear what other's impressions are on these Rocky Mountain creations and the restraints.

If it truly was a malfunction, I hope either RMC and/or Six Flags can figure out why it happened.

Nonetheless, condolences to the family.

* This post was modified at 7/20/13 12:16:22 PM *

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by Eric_Gieszl Eric_Gieszl Profile at 7/20/13 12:53:18 PM
LoneStar said:

I've probably gotten more rides in Rocky Mountain trains than most on this board, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the lap bars "click". I don't think they us a ratchet/gears. Aren't they pneumatic or air or hydraulic system or something?

If the trains are identical to the Iron Rattler ones then they don't click.

Yes, Intamin uses a similar system on some of their coasters like Xcelerator.

Basically, my understanding is that the restraint can lock in any position.

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by drachen drachen Profile at 7/20/13 1:00:44 PM
Eric_Gieszl said:

If the trains are identical to the Iron Rattler ones then they don't click.

Yes, Intamin uses a similar system on some of their coasters like Xcelerator.

Basically, my understanding is that the restraint can lock in any position.

Correct. Hydraulic restraints can keep pushing down, but cannot be raised until the train is in the station (or drop off point).

Either Gerstlauer has a serious design flaw, or the rider was never secured properly.

I just feel for those kids... What a nightmare.

drachen
Coaster to Park Ratio: 4.87 / Steel to Wooden Ratio: 2.57 / Wooden Coaster Percentage: 28%
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Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by CoasterFanatic CoasterFanatic Profile at 7/20/13 3:09:47 PM
chitlins73 said:

I just can't believe that this is not either rider or operator error.I have never heard of a restraint just popping up in the middle of a coaster ride. I just wanna know how this could happen!!

Dude, I've had restraints pop open dozens of times and 95 percent of them were PTC's Had a friend had it happen to him on T2 at SFKK seat belt saved him.

Im more than convinced the low sides have more to do with a failing or incorrectly placed lapbar. In both SFNE's and SFOT the rider was ejected sideways.

Charles Nungester 323 coasters and holding for two years now LOL Last coaster ride. HWN 2011
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by Eric_Gieszl Eric_Gieszl Profile at 7/20/13 3:27:51 PM
I have never had a restraint pop open ever. I've never even witnessed it either.
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by LoneStar LoneStar Profile at 7/20/13 3:30:53 PM
antikythera said:

I have not had the chance to ride this thing, but many people are commenting on the ABC news story that they feel like the restraints on this ride are a bit too loose fitting.


http://abcnews.go.com/US/flags-texas-woman-dies-riding-texas-giant-rollercoaster/story?id=19720139

I'm pretty sure it's designed to feel insecure and many of us would probably pass it off as those individuals just feeling scared about their first time, but one has to wonder. I'd love to hear what other's impressions are on these Rocky Mountain creations and the restraints.

If it truly was a malfunction, I hope either RMC and/or Six Flags can figure out why it happened.

Nonetheless, condolences to the family.

I've ridden NTG and IR probably a dozen times a piece. I'd like to comment on the restraints.

Let me begin that I have never felt insecure or "loose." As mentioned in previous posts, the restraints are hydraulic or pneumatic. People commenting now in the restraints in response to this strategy are probably just blindly commenting after-the-fact. On both coasters, sometimes the ride-ops have stapled me, and the restraints staple down a little during the ride.

That being said, RM probably will examine their restraints. They are the most minimalist restraints I've ever experienced. They are T-bars, similar to Intamin's T bars on MF. The have hardly anything to hold on to. Just a little saddle horn right in your lap. The cars are open air, and there's no bar in front to hold on to.

I've always felt safe, but they are truly minimal.

A seatbelt may be a good and unobtrusive addition. I don't understand why more trains don't have them. Could a seatbelt have protected the lady from this tragedy?

- Pat-O

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by Eric_Gieszl Eric_Gieszl Profile at 7/20/13 3:32:07 PM
Unconfirmed, but I believe Six Flags has closed Iron Rattler for the time being.
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by Eric_Gieszl Eric_Gieszl Profile at 7/20/13 3:37:28 PM
Pat, they're not Rocky Mountain's design. Both Iron Rattler and New Texas Giant use trains designed and built by Gerstlauer.
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by CoasterFanatic CoasterFanatic Profile at 7/20/13 4:53:36 PM
Eric_Gieszl said:

I have never had a restraint pop open ever. I've never even witnessed it either.

Im glad for you, Just about every enthusiast I know has had it happen on PTC's. One very well respected Park PR person told me about the T2 incident that happened to him.

It was so bad on Kings Island that lets just say the innards of a Snap on Half Inch ratchet wrench replaced PTC's crap.

Now I've never heard of the Hydrolic restraints failing, Left up, yes, but failing no. In fact most of them have not one, but two cylinders. Both more than capable of holding you in.

Charles Nungester 323 coasters and holding for two years now LOL Last coaster ride. HWN 2011
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by CoasterFanatic CoasterFanatic Profile at 7/20/13 4:59:12 PM
LoneStar said:

antikythera said:

I have not had the chance to ride this thing, but many people are commenting on the ABC news story that they feel like the restraints on this ride are a bit too loose fitting.


http://abcnews.go.com/US/flags-texas-woman-dies-riding-texas-giant-rollercoaster/story?id=19720139

I'm pretty sure it's designed to feel insecure and many of us would probably pass it off as those individuals just feeling scared about their first time, but one has to wonder. I'd love to hear what other's impressions are on these Rocky Mountain creations and the restraints.

If it truly was a malfunction, I hope either RMC and/or Six Flags can figure out why it happened.

Nonetheless, condolences to the family.

I've ridden NTG and IR probably a dozen times a piece. I'd like to comment on the restraints.

Let me begin that I have never felt insecure or "loose." As mentioned in previous posts, the restraints are hydraulic or pneumatic. People commenting now in the restraints in response to this strategy are probably just blindly commenting after-the-fact. On both coasters, sometimes the ride-ops have stapled me, and the restraints staple down a little during the ride.

That being said, RM probably will examine their restraints. They are the most minimalist restraints I've ever experienced. They are T-bars, similar to Intamin's T bars on MF. The have hardly anything to hold on to. Just a little saddle horn right in your lap. The cars are open air, and there's no bar in front to hold on to.

I've always felt safe, but they are truly minimal.

A seatbelt may be a good and unobtrusive addition. I don't understand why more trains don't have them. Could a seatbelt have protected the lady from this tragedy?

- Pat-O

Back in 2001 when the guy was thrown from S:ROS at NE his bar was left up. It did have seat belts but they did nothing to keep him from being thrown over the side. I myself while riding it noticed the bar being high off my waist but only once I got on the lift and I settled back against the seat. OF COURSE I PULLED THE BAR DOWN FURTHER. Rode safely 45 times after the rain fell and park cleared.

I don't know what caused this, Those bars just don't come up. Intamin and GravityKraft have backups.

Charles Nungester 323 coasters and holding for two years now LOL Last coaster ride. HWN 2011
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by chitlins73 chitlins73 Profile at 7/20/13 5:28:27 PM
Coasterfanatic-Restraints just don't pop up for no reason or there would have been many more deaths on coasters....lol.It is usually the fault of the rider or operator when these accidents happen.
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by CoasterFanatic CoasterFanatic Profile at 7/20/13 5:41:51 PM
chitlins73 said:

Coasterfanatic-Restraints just don't pop up for no reason or there would have been many more deaths on coasters....lol.It is usually the fault of the rider or operator when these accidents happen.

FYI, Most woodies don't have enough air to eject anyone and Yes, I think its time for a new thread. Im sure Im not the only one. As I said, all but once its been on PTC trains and that was five different coasters. Silver Comet, Blue Streak CP both me and my brother. Cornball Express (The only Full Bench Bar one) and Hershey Comet. Twice on Worlds of Fun Mamba they came out to check both me and my brothers restraint on the lift hill as some sensor said the bars weren't far enough down on separate rides..

Im told that TNTG had such sensors.

Charles Nungester 323 coasters and holding for two years now LOL Last coaster ride. HWN 2011
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by NotSo NotSo Profile at 7/20/13 5:48:16 PM
chitlins73 said:

Coasterfanatic-Restraints just don't pop up for no reason or there would have been many more deaths on coasters....lol.It is usually the fault of the rider or operator when these accidents happen.

My dad's restraint never locked at all on the old Demon at KI. Good thing he had strong legs. Don't think these things can't happen, they can.

* This post was modified at 7/20/13 5:48:40 PM *

No Question she was a big gal by CoasterFanatic CoasterFanatic Profile at 7/20/13 6:32:12 PM
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/metro/20130719-breaking-woman-dies-on-six-flags-texas-giant-roller-coaster.ece

Very sad. I still don't know what happened, if the restraint was in a green possition which most have to be for the lifthill to run. I don't know,

Rememerber, Gerstlauer had a restraint break on one woodie about seven years ago. Rider was fine, Handed the op the restraint and said, I think somethings wrong here.

Charles Nungester 323 coasters and holding for two years now LOL Last coaster ride. HWN 2011
Re: No Question she was a big gal by GoYanks34 GoYanks34 Profile at 7/20/13 7:11:08 PM
CoasterFanatic said:

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/metro/20130719-breaking-woman-dies-on-six-flags-texas-giant-roller-coaster.ece


Very sad. I still don't know what happened, if the restraint was in a green possition which most have to be for the lifthill to run. I don't know,

Rememerber, Gerstlauer had a restraint break on one woodie about seven years ago. Rider was fine, Handed the op the restraint and said, I think somethings wrong here.

She was a big lady - her weight will surely play a factor as far as could she even be properly secured. Do the hydraulic restraints have weight limits as to how much weight they can sustain?

No matter the reason my heart goes out to her family - can't even imagine what that poor kid is going through watching his mom fall out of a coaster to her death. :-(

Jen

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by chitlins73 chitlins73 Profile at 7/20/13 8:16:31 PM
Just speculation here but from all the info I am hearing,the restraint did not pop up. Seems like the restraint was resting on the belly of the victim and after the forces of the ride jiggled the restraint off of her belly,there was nothing to hold her in. It seems like weight really has nothing to do with the accident but more so how a body is proportioned. I guess being top heavy is not the ideal body shape to ride on certain coasters. So very sad to hear of this tragedy. I still believe coasters are very safe and this will not keep me from riding in the future.
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by Eric_Gieszl Eric_Gieszl Profile at 7/20/13 9:48:42 PM
The outcome of the investigation is going to be interesting, but dare I say almost predictable. I've already drawn my own conclusions based on what I've read.

Ride manufacturers are constantly challenged with coming up with restraint designs that work with all body sizes and types.

It's a tragic accident, but so avoidable at the same time. I feel especially sorry for the ride operators. I know how I'd feel if I'd have been working the ride.

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by GoYanks34 GoYanks34 Profile at 7/20/13 10:43:54 PM
chitlins73 said:

Just speculation here but from all the info I am hearing,the restraint did not pop up. Seems like the restraint was resting on the belly of the victim and after the forces of the ride jiggled the restraint off of her belly,there was nothing to hold her in. It seems like weight really has nothing to do with the accident but more so how a body is proportioned. I guess being top heavy is not the ideal body shape to ride on certain coasters. So very sad to hear of this tragedy. I still believe coasters are very safe and this will not keep me from riding in the future.

That's what I also meant to imply by saying her "weight". You're right - it's the proportions that create the problems more than simply being overweight.

Jen

Re: No Question she was a big gal by CoasterFanatic CoasterFanatic Profile at 7/20/13 10:52:28 PM
GoYanks34 said:

CoasterFanatic said:

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/metro/20130719-breaking-woman-dies-on-six-flags-texas-giant-roller-coaster.ece


Very sad. I still don't know what happened, if the restraint was in a green possition which most have to be for the lifthill to run. I don't know,

Rememerber, Gerstlauer had a restraint break on one woodie about seven years ago. Rider was fine, Handed the op the restraint and said, I think somethings wrong here.

She was a big lady - her weight will surely play a factor as far as could she even be properly secured. Do the hydraulic restraints have weight limits as to how much weight they can sustain?

No matter the reason my heart goes out to her family - can't even imagine what that poor kid is going through watching his mom fall out of a coaster to her death. :-(

Jen

Jen, I was told by a competitor who uses the same system that the cylinders can support ten thousand pounds of weight and there is two on each lapbar of their version. One is a backup.

Im a big guy and I rode S:ROS over 40 times back in 2001 prior to the accident. My brother is about the same size. I believe we were both bigger than the guy who perished later in the year.

Here is two things I noticed about the T Bar Pnuematic Restraint. One, It didn't come down into the lap but sat on stomach, If they physically didn't push down, It never touched my lap until I was going up the lift and I pulled it down myself. Don't know why, Just guessing I settled against the backrest. This happened a couple times and of course I pulled it down further.

Two. If for some reason the restraints were released in the station, (To let another person on, To move someone etc) The bars popped up from the resistance the body put on them. This required a full recheck of the train. In fact in the 2001 incident of S:ROS the rider was moved from the back seat of the car to the front seat of the car and the bar was never re-checked. They did put his belt on but it was worthless on lateral forces. That guy was also physically and mentally handicapped and was unable to pull it down himself. Of special note, The first gen hyper trains by Intamin for some reason the belts were longer on the front seat because the seats sat closer together, This is why they moved him. The bar would have locked in any position but they didn't push it into him. The witnesses said the bar was a foot off his lap. that full report is in PDF somewhere and is very gruesome.

The woman on TNTG was thrown the very first turn after the first drop telling me one of two things happened, 1 she was not secured properly or 2 restraint failure.

Charles Nungester 323 coasters and holding for two years now LOL Last coaster ride. HWN 2011
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! Photo by drachen drachen Profile at 7/21/13 10:26:59 PM
Some thoughts...

1) I think we all agree that this woman was too big to ride Texas Giant, and should not have been permitted to ride.

2) What I THINK happened is the restraint was down as far as the woman's body would allow and far enough that the ride's sensors registered a "down" lap bar. So the train was dispatched.

3) As you can see in the attached photo, the trains are pretty open. Simply put, if the restraint was only minimally down, then there is room for a rider to fall out to the side, on a ride that has its fair share of lateral and negative G's.

4) At fault? I suppose Gerstlauer can improve their design (how far the lap restraint must go down to allow a dispatch) and Six Flags can improve their operations (who can ride), which means they will likely share liability. I would imagine that RMC will escape relatively unscathed.

5) The solution? Seat belts. Seat belts aren't just a backup restraint, but they also limit the size of person who can ride. After the Intamin ejections, Cedar Fair shortened the seat belts on each of their Intamin coasters. The logic is simple: if the seat belt keeps larger guests off the coaster, the restraint can properly do its job.

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drachen
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Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by antikythera antikythera Profile at 7/21/13 10:44:21 PM
drachen said:

Some thoughts...

4) At fault? I suppose Gerstlauer can improve their design (how far the lap restraint must go down to allow a dispatch) and Six Flags can improve their operations (who can ride), which means they will likely share liability. I would imagine that RMC will escape relatively unscathed.

While RMC might go unscathed, do you think they will rethink who they use for their trains?

I'm not hating on Gerstlauer but I've never been a fan of any train that doesn't have a backup restraint. To me, it feels like laziness.

No matter how technically advanced we are, machines are built my man and man is not perfect.

* This post was modified at 7/21/13 10:44:45 PM *

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by Rollercoaster_freak220 Rollercoaster_freak220 Profile at 7/21/13 11:04:49 PM
There are many coasters without seatbelts. While it seems to us laymen that a seatbelt is always necessary, we aren't the engineers, and don't know what redundancies there are that aren't visible. In this case, it does appear that a seatbelt is necessary, but I don't think a blanket "every coaster must have a seatbelt" rule is really the answer.
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by antikythera antikythera Profile at 7/21/13 11:14:01 PM
Also, on a semi-related note, it looks like The Smiler had problems today too -- Gerstlauer is not having a good week, train or track wise.

"More bad news for Gerstlauer today as TowerTimes in the UK reports a new problem has come up with The Smiler today. According to the report guests waiting to ride heard a loud metal banging noise followed by a bolt from the ride’s track falling from the sky. The Smiler was immediately closed, the queue cleared and upon inspection a serious “gap” in one of the track sections was discovered... you can follow the link to see a great picture of it. While The Smiler is one of the most twisted and complex track configurations we’ve ever seen, I’ve got to wonder if perhaps they had to “force” the track sections here together during the assembly process a little too much, perhaps creating enough pressure to sheer a bolt from the ride. Expect The Smiler to remain closed while engineers inspect the ride from top to bottom and try to repair any problems."

http://screamscape.com/html/alton_towers.htm

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by Eric_Gieszl Eric_Gieszl Profile at 7/22/13 2:05:07 AM
antikythera said:

While RMC might go unscathed, do you think they will rethink who they use for their trains?

The park decides who they want to purchase the rolling stock from. Until this year RMC did not offer trains. Outlaw Run is the first to have a RMC designed and built train.

We will see who Six Flags decides to go with next year when they redesign Medusa at Six Flags Mexico with the Iron Horse Track.

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by CoasterFanatic CoasterFanatic Profile at 7/22/13 3:02:46 PM
Eric_Gieszl said:

antikythera said:

While RMC might go unscathed, do you think they will rethink who they use for their trains?

The park decides who they want to purchase the rolling stock from. Until this year RMC did not offer trains. Outlaw Run is the first to have a RMC designed and built train.

We will see who Six Flags decides to go with next year when they redesign Medusa at Six Flags Mexico with the Iron Horse Track.

Not sure if that's true Eric. RMC could either approve or not the use of Gerstlauer on their product. I know for a fact that GCII will only allow their trains on coasters they approve them to run on..

We'll see.

On further review, I think your right in the fact that SF has the final say of what can operate in its park, so that covers that. IM sure RMC and Gerstlauer had all kinds of correspondence.

* This post was modified at 7/22/13 4:42:50 PM *

Charles Nungester 323 coasters and holding for two years now LOL Last coaster ride. HWN 2011
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by Eric_Gieszl Eric_Gieszl Profile at 7/22/13 5:09:08 PM
Clearly there was collaboration early on to make sure that the Gerstlauer rolling stock would work on the RMC Iron Horse Track.

Ride projects of this size are rare in the industry. If Six Flags wants an RMC designed track and they don't want to use their trains I doubt that RMC is going to turn down the project, but it is within their right to do so.

GCI as well can decide who they wish to sell their products to. They can turn down a potential buyer if they don't want their trains running on a particular coaster.

However, I still firmly believe it's a buyers market and the buyers call the shots. Amusement Equipment suppliers aren't likely to be turning down projects because the buyer wants one piece and not the other.

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by frontrow frontrow Profile at 7/22/13 8:22:23 PM
Even though I've been very busy at work I've trying to follow this tragic incident. My thoughts are prayers go out to the family, especially those kids that were in the seat in front of that women. As a big guy, I naturally try to lift my stomach and get the restraint on my lap, then drape my stomach over top the restraint. I ride like that in order to be more comfortable. I never thought of the safety factor or that someone could be ejected if the restraint wasn't on your lap. It does make sense, and brings awareness to myself. I really hated my walk of shame on El Toro this spring, but at least I walked away. This is just a very sad, unfortunate incident. Hopefully the correct measures are taken so this doesn't happen again.
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by chitlins73 chitlins73 Profile at 7/22/13 8:43:02 PM
Hey Ken....been thinking about you and what you thought about all this. I can't believe this happened not too long after I got to ride it. I believe the restraint was probably resting uncomfortably on her stomach and the forces caused the restraint to go down past her belly and left a huge gap there for her to fly out. The sign on the ride clearly states that the restraint should be on your lap around the thigh area to hold you in. This is unfortunate and very sad but I still feel these coasters are really safe if all the ride guidelines are followed correctly. I am surprised she still let the ride go on if she did not feel safe and secure.I guess we will never know what she was thinking. I am not blaming her. I think there is plenty of blame to go around. I believe in the end,they will end up using restraints like El Toro has most likely.
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by CoasterFanatic CoasterFanatic Profile at 7/22/13 9:09:18 PM
frontrow said:

Even though I've been very busy at work I've trying to follow this tragic incident. My thoughts are prayers go out to the family, especially those kids that were in the seat in front of that women. As a big guy, I naturally try to lift my stomach and get the restraint on my lap, then drape my stomach over top the restraint. I ride like that in order to be more comfortable. I never thought of the safety factor or that someone could be ejected if the restraint wasn't on your lap. It does make sense, and brings awareness to myself. I really hated my walk of shame on El Toro this spring, but at least I walked away. This is just a very sad, unfortunate incident. Hopefully the correct measures are taken so this doesn't happen again.

In 2008 I lost a ton of weight, Went to Gradv and could get the test seat light green for El Toro pretty easy, Could never get the belt though. I didn't ride. Batman was a joker as far as seat size. Medusa and Superman and Nitro I fit easily as well as Kingda Ka. I was also pleased with the mine train that had new restraints since my 2001 visit when I couldn't ride it at less weight than I was then.

Its just weird how some rides you can ride perfectly safe and others area pain in the neck.

Chuck

Charles Nungester 323 coasters and holding for two years now LOL Last coaster ride. HWN 2011
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by antikythera antikythera Profile at 7/22/13 10:53:38 PM
CoasterFanatic said:

frontrow said:

Even though I've been very busy at work I've trying to follow this tragic incident. My thoughts are prayers go out to the family, especially those kids that were in the seat in front of that women. As a big guy, I naturally try to lift my stomach and get the restraint on my lap, then drape my stomach over top the restraint. I ride like that in order to be more comfortable. I never thought of the safety factor or that someone could be ejected if the restraint wasn't on your lap. It does make sense, and brings awareness to myself. I really hated my walk of shame on El Toro this spring, but at least I walked away. This is just a very sad, unfortunate incident. Hopefully the correct measures are taken so this doesn't happen again.

In 2008 I lost a ton of weight, Went to Gradv and could get the test seat light green for El Toro pretty easy, Could never get the belt though. I didn't ride. Batman was a joker as far as seat size. Medusa and Superman and Nitro I fit easily as well as Kingda Ka. I was also pleased with the mine train that had new restraints since my 2001 visit when I couldn't ride it at less weight than I was then.

Its just weird how some rides you can ride perfectly safe and others area pain in the neck.

Chuck

Truth.

I'm kind of starting to believe that original comment I read here or somewhere else that said the body proportions of a person tend to play a bigger role than weight itself.

I've been on rides where my big butt has caused me to sit higher than normal resulting in the harness not quite sitting right -- like wearing a size 32 waist just so I can squeeze it over my bottom when I'm a obviously a size 30 waist. I can pull off the size 32 waist, but it's not ideal nor does it look right.

Same thing with the coaster. I'm for the most part perfectly safe, but I'd be more comfortable and feel a smidgen better if it sat correctly on me, god forbid something like this were to happen again.

* This post was modified at 7/22/13 10:54:10 PM *

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by frontrow frontrow Profile at 7/23/13 5:49:01 PM
With coasters being built that exert so many negative and lateral g forces, maybe a lap bar is no longer enough. I've been researching the tragic accident on Superman ROS/ Bizarro at Six Flags New England, and the 2 incidents are very simular. Look at the restraints on coasters like Kingda Ka, Storm Runner, Maverick, and Intimadator 305. The lower bar sits on your lap, you have a restraint on your shoulders, it buckles with a belt, and larger people can safely ride. So.I like those restraints? Not really, but maybe that is what is needed. The clam shell on the B&M hypers are another good restraint, but the angle of the seat is what makes those work so well. The B&M wing rider is another good restraint that sits on your lap, shoulders, and has a safety belt. Now on your traditional, conventional wooden coasters you can get away with a lap bar. Even if your incorporated the lap with ankle restraints like the ones on Sky Rocket and Ride of Steel at Darien Lake that could work. The point I'm getting at is that I think the solution is changing the restraints on all steel coasters that have these forces. I love the lap bars on Millennium Force, TTD, Superman ROS, and El Toro, but I think It's time to alter them for safety reasons. If they don't, I'm afraid something simular will happen again.
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by alpengeistno3 at 7/23/13 6:07:44 PM
Hmmm, I just posted on this on the other restraint thread. B&M clearly has the idea correct with their hyper restraints because of the way they canted the seats back. Intamin and other companies could benefit from looking at that next time they develop a new lap bar designed ride.

I really have to wonder (maybe it is still to soon). If you are truly fearful of being tossed from a ride, wouldn't you hold on? Not just put your hands on the grab handle, but claw the thing as if your life depended on it? Even the most extreme coasters only produce a second or 2 of extreme forces, so if you really felt like you were flying out, a person of sound mind should be able to keep themselves in the car by either holding on or yanking down on the restraint.

Paul

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by frontrow frontrow Profile at 7/23/13 6:54:11 PM
alpengeistno3 said:

Hmmm, I just posted on this on the other restraint thread. B&M clearly has the idea correct with their hyper restraints because of the way they canted the seats back. Intamin and other companies could benefit from looking at that next time they develop a new lap bar designed ride.


I really have to wonder (maybe it is still to soon). If you are truly fearful of being tossed from a ride, wouldn't you hold on? Not just put your hands on the grab handle, but claw the thing as if your life depended on it? Even the most extreme coasters only produce a second or 2 of extreme forces, so if you really felt like you were flying out, a person of sound mind should be able to keep themselves in the car by either holding on or yanking down on the restraint.

Paul

We must have been typing at the same time Paul. Great minds think a like, LOL. I really have been giving this a lot of thought. I know people complain about the restraints on Skyrush, but those restraints really cover your thighs. With the intensity of that coaster you need something like that to hold you in. With technology today there are some many options in restraint devices, there shouldn't be any ejections.

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by Eric_Gieszl Eric_Gieszl Profile at 7/23/13 7:12:43 PM
alpengeistno3 said:

I really have to wonder (maybe it is still to soon). If you are truly fearful of being tossed from a ride, wouldn't you hold on?

There is no way you could hold on. The majority of a person's weight is above their waist. When the negative G-forces kick in and you weigh say 250+ pounds you've got to have a lot of strength to keep yourself in the car.

OTSRs are not the answer. The restraint systems are fine. It's time for parks to deny rides to those who are not in good shape and pose a danger to themselves because of their own unhealthy choices.

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by HamptonRoadsRider HamptonRoadsRider Profile at 7/23/13 7:23:04 PM
ABC news reports the iron rattler closed as well now
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by Eric_Gieszl Eric_Gieszl Profile at 7/23/13 7:29:36 PM
Iron Rattler has been closed since Saturday.
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by antikythera antikythera Profile at 7/23/13 7:56:52 PM
Eric_Gieszl said:

alpengeistno3 said:

I really have to wonder (maybe it is still to soon). If you are truly fearful of being tossed from a ride, wouldn't you hold on?

There is no way you could hold on. The majority of a person's weight is above their waist. When the negative G-forces kick in and you weigh say 250+ pounds you've got to have a lot of strength to keep yourself in the car.

OTSRs are not the answer. The restraint systems are fine. It's time for parks to deny rides to those who are not in good shape and pose a danger to themselves because of their own unhealthy choices.

Yes, OTSR may not be the answer, but frontrow has a valid point as well.

As we build them bigger and faster, at what point do we go beyond safe?

At the end of the day, physics dictates what we can do with amusement park rides, as well as how well we can engineer them. But as we have seen with everything going wrong this week (Texas Giant, Shoot the Rapids, Smiler, I305), these new rides that demand exceptional craftsmanship are obviously not being built equal nor are we anticipating the maintenance on them.

Unless we truly understand how all body types will react to a ride, then I feel like we fail as a society -- you can say that it's up to the park to deny a person entry to a ride if they are physically not able to ride and, while I agree, I feel like that only mitigates the problem because we will begin alienating riders in a quest to go bigger, instead of crafting our machines better.

My belief is that if you are going to build something that both goes against and embraces physics, it should be done right the first time. Otherwise, it's like playing with fire and fire hurts eventually.

I look forward to the next thrill machine as much as the next, but no company (save B&M) has shown me with confidence that they could build higher and faster without compromising safety for all guests, big and small.

My $.02.

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by HamptonRoadsRider HamptonRoadsRider Profile at 7/23/13 8:35:59 PM
Eric_Gieszl said:

Iron Rattler has been closed since Saturday.

D'oh! Apparently abc news is not exactly on cutting edge of this story.

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by frontrow frontrow Profile at 7/23/13 8:54:59 PM
Eric_Gieszl said:

alpengeistno3 said:

I really have to wonder (maybe it is still to soon). If you are truly fearful of being tossed from a ride, wouldn't you hold on?

There is no way you could hold on. The majority of a person's weight is above their waist. When the negative G-forces kick in and you weigh say 250+ pounds you've got to have a lot of strength to keep yourself in the car.

OTSRs are not the answer. The restraint systems are fine. It's time for parks to deny rides to those who are not in good shape and pose a danger to themselves because of their own unhealthy choices.

You're maybe right OTSR's may not be the answer. The restraints might be safe just how they are are as long as the person's body type fits the restraint. Bottom line is people with all body shapes are going to try and ride, including myself. Do you really want to leave a decision like this up to a 18 or 19 year ride op? I as unaware of the danger, therefore most of the gp would be also. I can almost guarantee that restraints on The New Texas Giant will be altered, if anything just for public perception reasons. If the restraints are not altered, even the fit, healthy people will be pessimistic on riding it. This is just what happens when there is an accident.

* This post was modified at 7/23/13 8:56:44 PM *

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by frontrow frontrow Profile at 7/23/13 9:00:08 PM
Eric_Gieszl said:

alpengeistno3 said:

I really have to wonder (maybe it is still to soon). If you are truly fearful of being tossed from a ride, wouldn't you hold on?

There is no way you could hold on. The majority of a person's weight is above their waist. When the negative G-forces kick in and you weigh say 250+ pounds you've got to have a lot of strength to keep yourself in the car.

OTSRs are not the answer. The restraint systems are fine. It's time for parks to deny rides to those who are not in good shape and pose a danger to themselves because of their own unhealthy choices.

You're maybe right OTSR's may not be the answer. The restraints might be safe just how they are are as long as the person's body type fits the restraint. Bottom line is people with all body shapes are going to try and ride, including myself. Do you really want to leave a decision like this up to a 18 or 19 year ride op? I was unaware of the danger, therefore most of the gp would be also. I can almost guarantee that restraints on The New Texas Giant will be altered, if anything just for public perception reasons. If the restraints are not altered, even the fit, healthy people will with be pessimistic on riding it. This is just what happens when there is an accident.

* This post was modified at 7/23/13 9:16:59 PM *

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by alpengeistno3 at 7/23/13 9:18:49 PM
I'll use Drachen's post to reiterate my point. *Look at the car. There are side wall that go up beyond the shoulders. The bar is curved to ensure that it is forced in on the rider. There is also room at the base of the bar for a person's toes to sit underneath it.

Since the ride has sensors detecting a minimum position for the bar to be down, I would presume it is so the bar is even with the side wall. Reports say the rider was ejected from the side of the ride. In order to be ejected that way, she would have to pushed completely over the top of the seat and sidewalls (presumable forcibly since she has not been ruled mentally impaired or physical handicapped like the SROS ejections.) Even the most negative G filled coaster should not be able to completely eject a properly seated rider from the seat, especially if the lap bar was properly engaged (as reports claim).

Paul

*darn, it didn't include his picture of the Texas Giant car and restraints. Well, scroll up and look at it.

* This post was modified at 7/23/13 9:21:23 PM *

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by RodeTheBatatKI at 7/23/13 11:10:46 PM
Eric_Gieszl said:

alpengeistno3 said:

I really have to wonder (maybe it is still to soon). If you are truly fearful of being tossed from a ride, wouldn't you hold on?

There is no way you could hold on. The majority of a person's weight is above their waist. When the negative G-forces kick in and you weigh say 250+ pounds you've got to have a lot of strength to keep yourself in the car.

OTSRs are not the answer. The restraint systems are fine. It's time for parks to deny rides to those who are not in good shape and pose a danger to themselves because of their own unhealthy choices.

Not that it matters, but not everyone who is "not in good shape" is in that condition because of "their own unhealthy choices." Have a heart and don't be so judgemental. It doesn't matter why a person is overweight. If they don't fit safely then they should be denied to ride. But some people have medical issues that are responsible for their size and not necessarily through their own choice.

* This post was modified at 7/23/13 11:13:10 PM *

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by Eric_Gieszl Eric_Gieszl Profile at 7/24/13 12:13:27 AM
antikythera said:

I look forward to the next thrill machine as much as the next, but no company (save B&M) has shown me with confidence that they could build higher and faster without compromising safety for all guests, big and small.

Riding roller coasters is one of the safest things you can do in this world.

All of the companies have proven that they can build taller and faster and yet still be safe.

This is incident involves ONE person!

More than 30,000 people will die in car accidents this year in the US. In 2008, 54,500 people died as a result of some incident in their own home.

Amusement park rides are like miracle machines. What other activity delivers the same kind of thrills and yet has almost no risk of you becoming seriously injured or killed during the activity?

There is nothing.

* This post was modified at 7/24/13 12:27:25 AM *

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by Eric_Gieszl Eric_Gieszl Profile at 7/24/13 12:26:07 AM
Yes, not everyone is overweight because of their actions, but for the majority who are it is a choice.

Stating a fact only makes me heartless or judgmental to those who don't want to hear the truth.

* This post was modified at 7/24/13 12:28:47 AM *

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by Overbanked Overbanked Profile at 7/24/13 2:16:29 AM
Eric_Gieszl said:

More than 30,000 people will die in car accidents this year in the US. In 2008, 54,500 people died as a result of some incident in their own home.

IMO roller coaster deaths reactions are very similar to plane crash deaths. They are both very high profile throughout the media. Many people become all freaked out, saying that they aren't safe. As you pointed out with the car crashes which are very common; I'm more afraid with some of these idiots on the road, then I'll ever will be of a coaster or passenger plane.

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by Bluestreakaddictt at 7/24/13 2:28:44 AM
Just a correction..nt that it really matters. If hoi remember you probably did an experiment of some sort in scbool that demonstrated the most of the males weight is above the waist while most of the females weight is below the waist. Unimportant. Just a terrible accident. The only time i ever had a restraint give on me was the Cedar Poi.t Blue Streak when they still had the single.position lap bars, bench seats, and no seat belts. But you really have a snowballs chance in hell of that coaster flinging you out.
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by mugen828 mugen828 Profile at 7/24/13 12:33:57 PM
Just read the article mentioned, took a look at the train picture, and also read a bunch of comments here.

I'm surprised that she was allowed on the ride, judging by the photo of her (not a complete body shot). Although, I have seen plenty of people get on with that "one click", and I always wonder if that's even safe.

As people have mentioned, roller coasters are completely safe compared to everyday activites we do, such as driving a car. So in my opinion, to be scared to ride a roller coaster after this incident (if you weren't there) is illogical. Condoloences to the family, I can't believe the pain they must be going through.

Now, with all that said, and reading that article and the one person's (who saw the victim board) testimony about one of the ride ops saying "your clicked in you should be good" (not sure exact words) I think that they did their job, obviously, if the train can go, but at the same time, would have checking her restaint twice, three times, 4 times, done anything? Sometimes ride ops just pull up on the restraint, meaning they don't push it down and click it any further. Also on this person specifically, maybe they could have only clicked it once and that was it?

I find it hard to believe anyone could actually be guilty in this case ride operator wise, if the train was able to depart. I'm not a ride operator, but, I've read in the comments here that a ride cannot depart the station with a restraint not locked and in the "green".

So...was it a freak occurance of the bar releasing? Was it a combination of body type, weight, clothes (slippery?), wind, ect. ect.

I think everyone should be given a chance to experience roller coasters. I love them dearly, but I think that saftey is first and foremost. I think it sucks some people can't ride rides, but situations like this (where the rider's appearance raises questions) it further affirms my stance on having strict restrictions on who can fit on a ride. I don't think it should EVER be a judgement call by an op. As in they decide is someone is too wide, tall, ect. I think like others have said, the restraint requirement to go down further, is a great solution, and also seat belts that only go so far, thus limiting the ride to certain body sizes as well.

I'm really puzzled as to what actually happened. We may never know. But I think that seatbelts should be added to those minimalistic designed restrains on TG, as well as Iron Rattler (I've been on IR). Also maybe even the restaint having to go down a bit more.

- mugen828
157 Coasters -- Favorite Coaster -- Nitro (SFGAdv)
117 Steel -- 40 Wood -- Home Park: SFGADv
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by Eric_Gieszl Eric_Gieszl Profile at 7/24/13 1:40:42 PM
mugen828 said:

I don't think it should EVER be a judgement call by an op.

Then who should decide and monitor the ride? Should Senator Markey from Massachusetts do it? He seems anxious to do so.

If seat belts are so safe then why not just eliminate the lap bar and replace them with seat belts?

Read through the thread and you'll see that the witness you mention (the click girl) has zero credibility and I'd be willing to bet she wasn't even there.

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by Rollercoaster_freak220 Rollercoaster_freak220 Profile at 7/24/13 1:59:25 PM
For the billionth time, Texas Giant's bars do not click. The "witness" is just talking to talk.
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by chitlins73 chitlins73 Profile at 7/24/13 2:36:45 PM
There is a sign outside of the ride that clearly states that the restraint should be resting on the waist and not the belly. I think it is pretty clear what happened.The restraint was not on properly for this woman's body shape. she was very top heavy and not able to get the restraint over her belly and onto her lap. Once the coaster gained some speed and g forces started getting more insane,that restraint slipped past her belly area and there was too big of a gap to hold the rest of her body inside the train. These ride attendants will most likely be trained better to make sure the restraints are on people's bodies the way they are intended to be for maximum safety.
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by RodeTheBatatKI at 7/24/13 3:03:37 PM
Eric_Gieszl said:

Yes, not everyone is overweight because of their actions, but for the majority who are it is a choice.


Stating a fact only makes me heartless or judgmental to those who don't want to hear the truth.

That's the problem - you aren't "stating a fact." You are stating your own personal belief. There are very few people in this world whose goal is to be fat. Now, there are people out there who do make unhealthy choices when it comes to food, but stating that the majority are that way is your opinion, not fact. As a matter of "fact", there was an article published in the NY Times regarding the scientific study linking obesity to metabolism. See below.

So again, have a heart and don't be so judgmental. There are a lot of possible reasons why a person is overweight - bad food choices is one, but so is certain medicine, metabolism, genetics and other medical conditions. And yes, those other causes are actually quite more frequent occurrences than a lot of people know. They automatically assume that because someone is overweight it's because they don't know how to put down the fork, which isn't always the case. And THAT'S the truth.

* This post was modified at 7/24/13 3:08:51 PM *

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by Eric_Gieszl Eric_Gieszl Profile at 7/24/13 3:30:44 PM
No, it is a fact. Any doctor will tell you that most people are overweight by choice. Choice meaning what and how much they put in their mouth.

That's a FACT and not a personal belief.

Blaming obesity on medical conditions is an excuse, which the public seems to be full of these days. If you're overweight there is a 99% chance that the problem is with choices you've made regarding your diet, lifestyle and exercise.

Metabolism has a direct correlation between how much food your body can consume. It varies by person, but once again it's a choice you make. You either eat less than you need and loose weight, eat what you need and maintain weight or eat more than you need and get fat.

If you have medical conditions that reduce your caloric burn then once again you have a choice - eat less or gain weight.

It's also a FACT that most Americans don't exercise as much as they should. Once again, not my personal belief, but a FACT and a contributing factor in why so many gain weight.

You obviously don't want to listen to the truth and you're clearly offering up excuses which it seems is the trend in our society right now. Instead of taking responsibility for ones actions they blame it on someone or something else!

If that makes me heartless or judgmental then so be it!

BTW- Please post a link to that scientific study. Why anyone needed a study to draw that conclusion boggles my mind. Metabolism linked to obesity - what a genius conclusion that was discovered decades ago!

* This post was modified at 7/24/13 3:46:07 PM *

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by drachen drachen Profile at 7/24/13 5:08:18 PM
Eric_Gieszl said:

No, it is a fact. Any doctor will tell you that most people are overweight by choice. Choice meaning what and how much they put in their mouth.


That's a FACT and not a personal belief.

Blaming obesity on medical conditions is an excuse, which the public seems to be full of these days. If you're overweight there is a 99% chance that the problem is with choices you've made regarding your diet, lifestyle and exercise.

Metabolism has a direct correlation between how much food your body can consume. It varies by person, but once again it's a choice you make. You either eat less than you need and loose weight, eat what you need and maintain weight or eat more than you need and get fat.

If you have medical conditions that reduce your caloric burn then once again you have a choice - eat less or gain weight.

It's also a FACT that most Americans don't exercise as much as they should. Once again, not my personal belief, but a FACT and a contributing factor in why so many gain weight.

You obviously don't want to listen to the truth and you're clearly offering up excuses which it seems is the trend in our society right now. Instead of taking responsibility for ones actions they blame it on someone or something else!

If that makes me heartless or judgmental then so be it!

BTW- Please post a link to that scientific study. Why anyone needed a study to draw that conclusion boggles my mind. Metabolism linked to obesity - what a genius conclusion that was discovered decades ago!

This is all George Bush's fault...

drachen
Coaster to Park Ratio: 4.87 / Steel to Wooden Ratio: 2.57 / Wooden Coaster Percentage: 28%
Friend me on Facebook... Search Park Connoisseur
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by RobLec RobLec Profile at 7/24/13 5:39:48 PM
RodeTheBatatKI said:
They automatically assume that because someone is overweight it's because they don't know how to put down the fork, which isn't always the case.

Maybe they don't know when to put down the Fritos, which is before they start.

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by RodeTheBatatKI at 7/24/13 8:57:11 PM
Eric_Gieszl said:

No, it is a fact. Any doctor will tell you that most people are overweight by choice. Choice meaning what and how much they put in their mouth.


That's a FACT and not a personal belief.

Blaming obesity on medical conditions is an excuse, which the public seems to be full of these days. If you're overweight there is a 99% chance that the problem is with choices you've made regarding your diet, lifestyle and exercise.

Metabolism has a direct correlation between how much food your body can consume. It varies by person, but once again it's a choice you make. You either eat less than you need and loose weight, eat what you need and maintain weight or eat more than you need and get fat.

If you have medical conditions that reduce your caloric burn then once again you have a choice - eat less or gain weight.

It's also a FACT that most Americans don't exercise as much as they should. Once again, not my personal belief, but a FACT and a contributing factor in why so many gain weight.

You obviously don't want to listen to the truth and you're clearly offering up excuses which it seems is the trend in our society right now. Instead of taking responsibility for ones actions they blame it on someone or something else!

If that makes me heartless or judgmental then so be it!

BTW- Please post a link to that scientific study. Why anyone needed a study to draw that conclusion boggles my mind. Metabolism linked to obesity - what a genius conclusion that was discovered decades ago!

I tried posting the link before but for some reason it didn't show. I'll try again.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/19/health/overweight-maybe-you-really-can-blame-your-metabolism.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

And your remark about doctors? Back in the 50's doctors used to extoll the benefits of smoking but that has certainly changed, huh?

* This post was modified at 7/24/13 9:02:25 PM *

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by Kdunn at 7/24/13 9:09:51 PM
She supposedly was a bigger woman. Most likely they didn't push the lap bar down far enough. That or there was a mechanical failure but the first one is more likely.
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by RodeTheBatatKI at 7/24/13 9:25:11 PM
And another:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/27/health/biological-changes-thwart-weight-loss-efforts-study-finds.html

And you can google Prader-Willi Syndrome, Cushings Syndrome, Polysystic Ovary Syndrome

I'm just saying, don't be so harsh and automatically assume someone who is overweight is a lazy slob.

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by antikythera antikythera Profile at 7/24/13 9:39:29 PM
I'm shocked by some of the ignorant comments thus far about people's weight. Having had families members go through bouts of depression, medical issues, etc. weight is not decided upon soley by shoving food in your mouth. Tell that to my girlfriend's sister who had to take steroids for her colitis and it caused her to balloon up. She didn't choose it, but I guess some people's ignorance will never let them see the truth.

On an another note, I've been reading more comments on various forums and news reports. One thing that caught my attention was the idea as to why companies don't develop more seats that can accommodate larger individuals.

A lot of the inverts have seats in the middle of the train to accommodate larger guests who may be hefty, big, or tall (not necessarily overweight). Why can't other manufacturers do the same?

I take it probably comes down to a cost issue but I reiterate my original point a few posts above in asking why we haven't modified our current machines to be as perfect as possible at accommodating all guests, no matter their size (within reason, I understand a four year old isn't going to go on a hyper coaster)?

* This post was modified at 7/24/13 9:40:12 PM *

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by GoYanks34 GoYanks34 Profile at 7/24/13 11:14:48 PM
Eric_Gieszl said:

No, it is a fact. Any doctor will tell you that most people are overweight by choice. Choice meaning what and how much they put in their mouth.


That's a FACT and not a personal belief.

Blaming obesity on medical conditions is an excuse, which the public seems to be full of these days. If you're overweight there is a 99% chance that the problem is with choices you've made regarding your diet, lifestyle and exercise.

Metabolism has a direct correlation between how much food your body can consume. It varies by person, but once again it's a choice you make. You either eat less than you need and loose weight, eat what you need and maintain weight or eat more than you need and get fat.

If you have medical conditions that reduce your caloric burn then once again you have a choice - eat less or gain weight.

It's also a FACT that most Americans don't exercise as much as they should. Once again, not my personal belief, but a FACT and a contributing factor in why so many gain weight.

You obviously don't want to listen to the truth and you're clearly offering up excuses which it seems is the trend in our society right now. Instead of taking responsibility for ones actions they blame it on someone or something else!

If that makes me heartless or judgmental then so be it!

BTW- Please post a link to that scientific study. Why anyone needed a study to draw that conclusion boggles my mind. Metabolism linked to obesity - what a genius conclusion that was discovered decades ago!

While I agree that there are definitely people who are obese due to their choices and can do something about it should they choose to I am currently in a situation out of my control that made me gain 25 lbs. I was non-weight bearing for almost 6 months after my ankle surgery and could not exercise. I kept my calories to below 1200 cal/day most of the time but I'm also hypothyroid. I'm supposed to take my thyroid meds 2x day but I can only take them once a day because taking them 2x a day causes me to have an irregular heartbeat. In order for me to simply maintain my weight I have to exercise tremendously which I have still not been able to do since my surgical recovery has been horrible and extended. I've been going to Hurricane Harbor (since I can't afford a gym or pool membership right now) a few times a week just so I can go in the wave pool and tread water for exercise but I haven't noticed any difference.

Luckily I can still fit on coasters but those with thyroid conditions (I was a size 7/8 before my body decided to attack it's own thyroid gland) have a very hard time losing weight. I used to think it was an excuse, that if you are on medication you shouldn't gain weight or be able to lose it. Absolutely not true. The meds just help you function without feeling like you're in a coma so there are a lot of people with this disease that have a very hard time. Now that I've gained all this weight it's going to take me forever to lose it. Working out 3-4 x/week, eating pretty healthy and being on my feet all day at work for a year only enabled me to lose 15 lbs of the what I call the 45 lbs of vet school fat I gained and now I'm way worse off than where I started. It's very upsetting and frustrating, especially when I used to be thin doing the same thing except I just exercised - didn't really have to watch my diet like I do now.

Jen

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by RobLec RobLec Profile at 7/25/13 8:27:41 AM
Jen - there's a difference between putting on 25 lbs and weighing over 300.
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by RobLec RobLec Profile at 7/25/13 8:39:59 AM
When a third of the population is morbidly obese it can hardly be blamed on some obscure diseases that may affect one in 10000 individuals.

So far, most of the posters here have been more than polite by referring to her "unusual proportions". My guess is what most likely happened is the lap bar was pressed down on top of her copious flab. Eventually her bulge of flab popped up over the top of the lap bar, leaving a sizable gap between the lap bar and her legs... enough of a gap for her massive weight to follow the laws of inertia.

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by mugen828 mugen828 Profile at 7/25/13 9:53:52 AM
Eric_Gieszl said:

mugen828 said:

I don't think it should EVER be a judgement call by an op.

Then who should decide and monitor the ride? Should Senator Markey from Massachusetts do it? He seems anxious to do so.

If seat belts are so safe then why not just eliminate the lap bar and replace them with seat belts?

Read through the thread and you'll see that the witness you mention (the click girl) has zero credibility and I'd be willing to bet she wasn't even there.


I knew someone was gonna say that.

What I mean is, it should be up to the restraints clicking in that it sets for. Also the height bar they use is not a judgement call, it's a set height.

These are SET things, that judgements made by the ride op. They are unchanging and the same for everyone. It'd be unfair if a ride op could place their judgement on others and who can ride and not ride. That's what I meant.

As far as the witness, yeah, I take that with a grain of salt. She could have been saying that just to say it. I wish we could know what happened, but we weren't there :/

- mugen828
157 Coasters -- Favorite Coaster -- Nitro (SFGAdv)
117 Steel -- 40 Wood -- Home Park: SFGADv
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by antikythera antikythera Profile at 7/25/13 10:11:12 AM
This thread is going downhill fast... who would have thought a woman's weight would bring out such a polarized discussion. I feel like I need to abstain from this discussion before I get the wrong impression about people on this forum. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, including myself, but that same opinion can make or break comradery and I don't want that.

Before I do, RideAccidents.com via ABCNews is reporting that she fell 100 feet onto a metal support beam before falling onto a metal tunnel. An autopsy by The Medical Examiner's Office in Tarrant County said most of the traumatic injury was to her torso area, although the cause of death is still unknown, i.e. if she survived the fall for a few minutes or died instantaneously.

Still very sad. When you recreate the scene in your head and feel what it would be like to be thrown like that onto a hard surface, it kind of breaks your heart. Those kids (and some riders) will have to relive that moment in their mind until the day they die themselves.

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by RobLec RobLec Profile at 7/25/13 11:37:23 AM
antikythera said:
This thread is going downhill fast...

The point is that it is that her weight must have been a contributing factor to the cause of the accident. Whether or not she had any control over her own physical condition, what this accident did to those children is the most tragic outcome of whatever factors may have caused it to occur.

I too had refrained from participating in this discussion for some time. I have not made mention of my own experiences or those of my friends and family regarding "body proportions". But I am glad that the particular photo of the woman was published. Most - and I repeat most - ordinary people of normal weight will recognize her tonnage as having more to do with what those children experienced than did any safety features of the hardware involved.

* This post was modified at 7/25/13 11:42:36 AM *

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by frontrow frontrow Profile at 7/25/13 11:39:49 AM
It doesn't matter if she weighed 500 pounds. Here is what we know. This woman wanted to ride a rollercoaster with her kids. She boarded the ride and pulled down the lap bar. She asked if she was secure. Now I've done the same thing. I have asked the ops if I'm properly secured on certain rides that I've ridden. When the op told she was secure, she put her faith in that restraint as I do. This is not her fault in any way. It doesn't matter how much she weighed or her body type. This is not her fault, period. She did what every other rider on that train did. The ride op got the green light that the restraint was secure. He did his job and this is not his fault. His job is to make sure she got that green light and apparently she did. It is not his place to do anything else. The coaster started it's circuit and the woman fell out, with her kids witnessing it. Why can't some of you accept the reason she fell out was due to the design of the restraint. Instead some of you want to make rude comments about her weight. It was a flaw in the design of the restraint, period. The restraint gave the green light, the computer deemed her safe to ride. The solution is to alter the restraints, period. The restraints didn't do the job . They didn't keep her in. If this lady was to big to ride, she should have never gotten the green light. I don't understand why some people can't come to terms with this. Insulting fat people is not the solution. Altering the restraints is, period.

On a side note I'm a fat guy who loves rollercoasters. I enjoy doing this with my kids, my friends, my family, and even members here at URC. I know why I'm fat and I know it's not healthy. After my walk of shame on El Toro, I've been trying to lose weight, but that doesn't matter. What I will say is that I am very fit. I work at job were 99.9% of the population can not or will not do my job. We get young, healthy, thin men that hire in. My job consists of long hours and extreme physical labor. My fat ass is somehow able to work longer, harder, and faster than these so called young fit people. In fact 90% of them will quit before they have a year in. I have been doing this for 17 years. I'm not trying to toot my own horn. Look at NFL offensive lineman. Those guys are fat, but they are very fit. In fact they try to stay heavy on purpose. The point I'm trying to make is don't stereotype people who are over weight. Just because they're fat doesn't mean they are lazy or unfit. I'm actually appalled at the direction that this thread has taken.

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by HamptonRoadsRider HamptonRoadsRider Profile at 7/25/13 1:14:55 PM
^^^ Totally agree, it is not the public's responsibility to know weight limits and ride specs of thrill rides. The fact that she called attention to herself first (although the son said he didn't hear it) especially clears her. It will be interesting to hear what the actual cause turns out to be, and if we can even trust what six flags reports considering the insider nature of the investihation.
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by frontrow frontrow Profile at 7/25/13 2:29:48 PM
I was just looking through some of my photos. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the restraints on the Texas Giant very similar to the ones Gerstlauer uses on their spinning coasters? To me they look very similar; even the floor looks the same. The reason I'm bringing this up is because we did a midwest coaster trip last year. That trip included Six Flags St. Louis, Worlds of Fun, Nickelodeon Universe, along with other parks. The 3 parks I mentioned have Gerstlauer spinning coasters. I can clearly remember boarding Pandemonium at Six Flags St. Louis. When I pulled the lap bar down, I had my oldest son push it down harder. I asked the ride op if I was good to go. Now I felt safe, but I wasn't sure if I would get the green light. The op said I was good to go. I remember saying going up the lift hill that at least I know I'll fit on the other spinning coasters on that trip. Now if the restraints on The Texas Giant are much different then this whole post means nothing. If they are similar and they restrain you in the same way, I can understand this situation a little better.
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by chitlins73 chitlins73 Profile at 7/25/13 7:19:27 PM
I think what most people don't realize about these restraints are that they are perfectly safe if they are put on properly. It clearly states on a sign outside of the ride that these restraints are meant to be resting on your waist and not your belly. If they are gonna keep using this kind of restraint,I think the only solution would be to train the workers better to make sure that the restraints are being used properly.It's either that or they are gonna have to install seatbelts on all the coasters and this will lead to longer dispatch times. I think these restraints are fine as long as people make sure they are resting on the proper area of the body.
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by Eric_Gieszl Eric_Gieszl Profile at 7/25/13 7:36:04 PM
If you haven't seen this opinion article then you should check it out.

Don’t condemn theme parks after freak accidents Register Pajaronian

* This post was modified at 7/25/13 7:37:20 PM *

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by frontrow frontrow Profile at 7/26/13 11:12:18 AM
Eric_Gieszl said:

If you haven't seen this opinion article then you should check it out.


Don’t condemn theme parks after freak accidents Register Pajaronian

I googled the article and read it. I'm not condemning Six Flags Over Texas. In fact, other than the legal liability of this happening on their property, I don't see this being much their fault. I personally think Gerstlauer is the cause of this. Not the victim, not the ride op, not the park, Gerstlauer is to blame. They are the ones who designed the trains and the restraints. I do agree that this was a freak accident, but I still believe measures should be taken so this doesn't happen again.

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by chitlins73 chitlins73 Profile at 7/26/13 12:12:48 PM
How are they at fault when it clearly states how to properly restrain yourself for the ride??
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by frontrow frontrow Profile at 7/26/13 5:25:17 PM
There seems to be 2 different opinions about the tragic incident. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but some of you think it was because of this woman's body that this happened. There's nothing wrong with the restraints, they shouldn't be altered, and the coaster should open back up with no alterations. There are signs throughout stating that the restraint must be on the lap, so this is solely this woman's fault. I might be able to buy into that if this was the first accident of it's kind, but It's not. This is very similar to the accident at Six Flags New England. So basically the same thing has happened twice. My opinion, which some people doe agree with me, is that the design in the restraint was flawed. If the woman was too big, she should have never got the green light. My opinion is it's the restraints fault and the need altered. The restraints will be altered. If there not and this happens again on The Texas Giant can you imagine the public's opinion. I don't think this will ever happen on The Texas Giant, Six Flags will make sure of it by altering the restraints. I do fear that this will happen again on another coaster with lap bars, if those restraints are not altered. All in all I feel we are just going to continue to disagree on this subject.
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by RobLec RobLec Profile at 7/27/13 3:15:21 AM
IMO this was a system failure. The engineers designed the restraints to function in a certain manner. The rider and the ride operator make certain the lap bar is in the proper position. Every part of the system has a function. I never said it was the woman's fault... merely that her weight contributed to the accident. Perhaps she may have mentioned her concern to the ride op and her concern was dismissed. This is still under investigation.

Most likely there is no one point of failure - no individual blame to point to... though personally I am not familiar with this ride and its restraint system. But I do know that it is all supposed to work together as a system. I do know that when manufacturers and park owners make restraints that are too restrictive, then riders complain. And most restraints are effective for 99.9999% of the population. The few failures typically seem to involve individuals with some physical abnormality.

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by SirWillow SirWillow Profile at 7/28/13 11:04:15 PM
With my only partially informed and not-so-expert opinion, I'm there with Rob. I think it was a failure in a number of areas- but I would disagree with frontrow and say the restraint was very likely the least of these. The restraint is fine, has a function and, when used properly, works exactly as it's designed to.

In this case it doesn't look like it was used properly.

The ride operator should have been able to observe that the lap bar was not in the proper position to work effectively. If they had done so, then this would not have happened. They could have repositioned the lap bar to work properly, or, if this wasn't possible, removed the lady from the ride. I don't know if this is due to fault with training, procedures, or other factors.

At the same time, it's pretty apparent that this woman should not have been on the ride due to her size and girth. That should have been apparent from signs. I don't know if there was a test seat outside or not, but that would be another way. Like it or not, her girth was absolutely a contributing factor in this.

The simple fact is you can not design something that is going to hold everyone in. There are going to be some body types that are just not going to be safe and have to be excluded. They trick is to try to design something that can hold the biggest range of people and sizes, but some are just not going to make it. You change it to fit some others and you will end up removing others at the other end of the range (seat is to big to hold a smaller person) or you make the ride completely unridable (e.g Perilous Plunge)

I understand that this becomes personal for some, especially when they are ones that would be excluded by that. But at some point there is going to have to be some acceptance of that, desired or not. Trying to force devices to fit people who should not be on them rather than making the difficult but necessary personal decisions instead is the wrong route to take. I'm sorry if that's unacceptable to some, but the truth isn't always a gentle or easy thing to take, and passing the blame onto others (e.g. doctors, medicines, or Gerstlauer instead of personal choices) isn't the route to take. Nor is using the very small percent of exceptions an excuse for the large majority that could do something about their condition but refuse to do so.

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by frontrow frontrow Profile at 7/29/13 8:47:29 AM
SirWillow said:

With my only partially informed and not-so-expert opinion, I'm there with Rob. I think it was a failure in a number of areas- but I would disagree with frontrow and say the restraint was very likely the least of these. The restraint is fine, has a function and, when used properly, works exactly as it's designed to.


In this case it doesn't look like it was used properly.

The ride operator should have been able to observe that the lap bar was not in the proper position to work effectively. If they had done so, then this would not have happened. They could have repositioned the lap bar to work properly, or, if this wasn't possible, removed the lady from the ride. I don't know if this is due to fault with training, procedures, or other factors.

At the same time, it's pretty apparent that this woman should not have been on the ride due to her size and girth. That should have been apparent from signs. I don't know if there was a test seat outside or not, but that would be another way. Like it or not, her girth was absolutely a contributing factor in this.

The simple fact is you can not design something that is going to hold everyone in. There are going to be some body types that are just not going to be safe and have to be excluded. They trick is to try to design something that can hold the biggest range of people and sizes, but some are just not going to make it. You change it to fit some others and you will end up removing others at the other end of the range (seat is to big to hold a smaller person) or you make the ride completely unridable (e.g Perilous Plunge)

I understand that this becomes personal for some, especially when they are ones that would be excluded by that. But at some point there is going to have to be some acceptance of that, desired or not. Trying to force devices to fit people who should not be on them rather than making the difficult but necessary personal decisions instead is the wrong route to take. I'm sorry if that's unacceptable to some, but the truth isn't always a gentle or easy thing to take, and passing the blame onto others (e.g. doctors, medicines, or Gerstlauer instead of personal choices) isn't the route to take. Nor is using the very small percent of exceptions an excuse for the large majority that could do something about their condition but refuse to do so.

I'm not saying that seats or restraints should be designed for larger riders. That is a completely different topic. Maybe I'm not making myself clear. I try explaining it a different way. We are going to Cedar Point next week. I'm giving myself a 50/50 chance of fitting on Millennium Force. I did fit on Ride of Steel at Darien Lake this year and Superman RoS at SF America last year. Even so, I know there is a goog chance that I won't fit on Millennium Force and I'll be amazed if I fit on Top Thrill Dragster. I'm going to try and ride Millennium Force. If I get the seat belt buckled, the restraint down far enough to get the green light, and if the ride op says I'm good, I except to be safely secured. If those 3 things happen then I should be in no danger. If one of those things don't happen, then it is best to make a walk of shame. I have no problem with the fact that I'm too big toh safely ride. In fact make all coasters with lap bars so only the thin, fit, healthy people can ride. That's fine. I'll just avoid those parks and spend my money at parks that do have coasters that I can ride. The point I was trying to make is that if I do fit on a ride, then I should return safely. The woman on The Texas Giant and the guy on Bizarro at SF New England did the same thing. They were deemed safe to ride by the ride op and by the restraint's safety mechanism. Both people should have returned to the station safely. If they were too big to ride, the restraint should have never got the green light, and they shouldn't been permitted to ride.
On side note, I believe it is wrong to judge or stereotype someone due to their gender, race, religion, sexuality, or even their body type. I tell my children that there are 2 types of people in this world; good people and bad people, and both types of people come in all different shapes, sizes, colors, etc. I believe anything less that is called prejudice. It's something for all for you to think about who are judging or stereotyping people who are over weight. None of you knew that woman, so don't judge her, or anyone else who you know nothing about. I was never subconscious about my weight, I just figured people would see what kind of person I was and formed an opinion based on that alone, because that is what I do. I guess I was wrong.

* This post was modified at 7/29/13 8:53:12 AM *

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by Stredain Stredain Profile at 7/29/13 11:16:44 AM
I am pretty heavyset (198 packed onto 5'2", down from a peak weight of 245lbs) but i have never had a problem with the restraints on any of the coasters I have ridden. If anything, sometimes I feel like I am caged in by the restraints (Most notably on Apollo, Nessie and Verbolten) since they are so tight!
However, I have had the crew at AC tell me, one more click please! and I have pulled down on the restraint bar one good tug.
Having ridden the NTG several times while I was once at my peak weight of 245 lbs, I wonder if the woman had the bar not securely against her waist? I am not saying her weight had an issue, but perhaps the bar was not securely against her body.
What a tragedy this has happened.. especially on the NTG. My heart goes out to the family.
Stredain

* This post was modified at 7/29/13 11:19:26 AM *

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by frontrow frontrow Profile at 7/29/13 11:48:21 AM
Stredain said:

I am pretty heavyset (198 packed onto 5'2", down from a peak weight of 245lbs) but i have never had a problem with the restraints on any of the coasters I have ridden. If anything, sometimes I feel like I am caged in by the restraints (Most notably on Apollo, Nessie and Verbolten) since they are so tight!
However, I have had the crew at AC tell me, one more click please! and I have pulled down on the restraint bar one good tug.
Having ridden the NTG several times while I was once at my peak weight of 245 lbs, I wonder if the woman had the bar not securely against her waist? I am not saying her weight had an issue, but perhaps the bar was not securely against her body.
What a tragedy this has happened.. especially on the NTG. My heart goes out to the family.
Stredain

They think that was the case. Apparently the restraint was not secure on her lap, it was a little higher onto her stomach.

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by GoYanks34 GoYanks34 Profile at 7/29/13 3:43:35 PM
Great article:

http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/07/28/5035788.html

Jen

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by frontrow frontrow Profile at 7/29/13 7:49:41 PM
GoYanks34 said:

Great article:


http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/07/28/5035788.html

Jen

Great article Jen. I've been trying to read as much as possible about this incident. One thing the article did mention was the woman that rode Outlaw Run at Silver Dollar City and how she felt unsafe. Another thing that was mentioned about Outlaw Run was that it has ankle restraints. When I ride Sky Rocket at Kennywood, the lap restraint doesn't have much contact with my lap. It sits mostly on my stomach. When the coaster goes through the inversions, I really come out of my seat. Sky Rocket does have ankle restraints, which makes it possible for people my size and larger to safely ride. The article you posted really covers a lot of what has been posted on this thread.

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by GoYanks34 GoYanks34 Profile at 7/29/13 9:25:41 PM
frontrow said:

GoYanks34 said:

Great article:


http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/07/28/5035788.html

Jen

Great article Jen. I've been trying to read as much as possible about this incident. One thing the article did mention was the woman that rode Outlaw Run at Silver Dollar City and how she felt unsafe. Another thing that was mentioned about Outlaw Run was that it has ankle restraints. When I ride Sky Rocket at Kennywood, the lap restraint doesn't have much contact with my lap. It sits mostly on my stomach. When the coaster goes through the inversions, I really come out of my seat. Sky Rocket does have ankle restraints, which makes it possible for people my size and larger to safely ride. The article you posted really covers a lot of what has been posted on this thread.

I thought it was pretty good to and covered all bases. I also like that they mentioned there would be no "click" - it's driving me crazy that the media keeps reporting that woman's quote. Hopefully we'll know soon what they're conclusion is.

Your comments about the ankle restrains are very interesting. I barely noticed them when we rode Sky Rocket (even with my ankle issues) but if they are truly another mechanism that can help hold you in your seat that's a pretty easy fix IMO. That and a seat belt and they'd be good to go. Only problem I could see is tall people that normally have to put their feet under the car in front - I wonder if that would impact them in any way. Another thing I was thinking is couldn't they have a middle car that's designed for heavier/odd proportioned people with different restraints/deeper seats like they do on the B&M inverts?

On a side note while I was at Gadv on Friday I overheard people talking while I was in a smoking ara telling all sorts of fictitious stories about people dying on coasters. Once I heard them talking about someone falling out of Nitro I had to step in and put a stop to that, LOL!

Jen

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by antikythera antikythera Profile at 7/29/13 9:38:17 PM
GoYanks34 said:

frontrow said:

GoYanks34 said:

Great article:


http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/07/28/5035788.html

Jen

Great article Jen. I've been trying to read as much as possible about this incident. One thing the article did mention was the woman that rode Outlaw Run at Silver Dollar City and how she felt unsafe. Another thing that was mentioned about Outlaw Run was that it has ankle restraints. When I ride Sky Rocket at Kennywood, the lap restraint doesn't have much contact with my lap. It sits mostly on my stomach. When the coaster goes through the inversions, I really come out of my seat. Sky Rocket does have ankle restraints, which makes it possible for people my size and larger to safely ride. The article you posted really covers a lot of what has been posted on this thread.

I thought it was pretty good to and covered all bases. I also like that they mentioned there would be no "click" - it's driving me crazy that the media keeps reporting that woman's quote. Hopefully we'll know soon what they're conclusion is.

Your comments about the ankle restrains are very interesting. I barely noticed them when we rode Sky Rocket (even with my ankle issues) but if they are truly another mechanism that can help hold you in your seat that's a pretty easy fix IMO. That and a seat belt and they'd be good to go. Only problem I could see is tall people that normally have to put their feet under the car in front - I wonder if that would impact them in any way. Another thing I was thinking is couldn't they have a middle car that's designed for heavier/odd proportioned people with different restraints/deeper seats like they do on the B&M inverts?

On a side note while I was at Gadv on Friday I overheard people talking while I was in a smoking ara telling all sorts of fictitious stories about people dying on coasters. Once I heard them talking about someone falling out of Nitro I had to step in and put a stop to that, LOL!

Jen

I was wondering the same thing Jen. I had asked the same question in a post earlier in this thread.

It probably comes down to a coat issue but if B&M can do it, what is stopping these other manufacturers? It doesn't make sense to me.

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by frontrow frontrow Profile at 7/29/13 11:17:46 PM
Ride of Steel at Darien Lake now has ankle restraints also. I'm assuming this was the post accident alteration, but it was 13 years between visits, so I could be wrong. I was able to get the seat belt buckled, but I couldn't get the green light with the lap bar. The ride ops said that they weren't permitted to push on my lap bar. Haley had to push my bar down, and I was able to get the green light. We got a front seat ride and a back seat ride, so I was able to fit in different seats. I was actually surprised that I was able to ride. I went to the park, thinking I wouldn't fit, so those 2 rides were an added bonus. I do agree ankle restraints would make a difference on those lap bar coasters.I felt completely safe on Ride of Steel, because of that extra safety restraint.
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by GoYanks34 GoYanks34 Profile at 7/29/13 11:31:59 PM
antikythera said:

I was wondering the same thing Jen. I had asked the same question in a post earlier in this thread.

It probably comes down to a coat issue but if B&M can do it, what is stopping these other manufacturers? It doesn't make sense to me.

I don't think it's cost as much as copyright infringement. I bet B&M has a copyright on that design.

While I was at the park with Jon on Friday I was studying the seats while we were on Nitro - never really did before. The seats are so deep that you fall back into them and then that permits the clamshell to come forward more rendering virtually no open space on the sides yet you still feel very free, comfortable and unrestricted. I never realized how close the ends of the clamshell are to the sides of the seat. It really was a genius design. I was thinking if these restraints would work on more intense coasters (with no inversions) than the B&M hypers/gigas and I don't see why not - I can't really see a scenario you could fall out when you're essentially boxed into the seat.

Jen

* This post was modified at 7/29/13 11:32:53 PM *

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by Eric_Gieszl Eric_Gieszl Profile at 7/30/13 1:05:36 AM
It wouldn't be copyright anything. You copyright your artistic work- art, photos, logos.

For an invention it is called a patent. You could apply and earn a patent for a restraint design.

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by Overbanked Overbanked Profile at 8/1/13 3:17:21 AM
I don't know if yall saw this old vid already, but a recreation was done of the Superman (Ride of Steel) at Darien Lake accident. I'm aware that the Texas accident happened on a curve, and different coaster companies, but the gist of the DL accident (the correlation of obesity, and the similar restraints) more than likely was very similar to the SFOT accident.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0KmTMf0VVQ

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by HamptonRoadsRider HamptonRoadsRider Profile at 8/6/13 11:39:09 PM
Think we will hear any follow up on this? Maybe im crazy but i was expecting an "ok here's what actually happened and went wrong" news article/release at some point. Maybe showing my noob status by thinking so. Guess no news is good news for the park.
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by antikythera antikythera Profile at 8/6/13 11:45:29 PM
Local news may report on it, and the park will most likely release a statement but I suspect Six Flags will keep it mute after that for the most part since they will want the GP to forget about it which most have, unless you're local to the park.

Legally, they have to get it cleared so I'm pretty sure a letter saying the ride is safe and that they have "modified" the ride will suffice.

Regardless of the differing views in this thread, it's still sad to think that it'll only remain as an ambiguous bookmark in online textbooks on roller coaster history like all the deaths before it.

Only those interested in learning about our hobby's past will probably dig deeper.

My $.02.

* This post was modified at 8/7/13 12:06:03 AM *

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by GoYanks34 GoYanks34 Profile at 8/6/13 11:48:44 PM
HamptonRoadsRider said:

Think we will hear any follow up on this? Maybe im crazy but i was expecting an "ok here's what actually happened and went wrong" news article/release at some point. Maybe showing my noob status by thinking so. Guess no news is good news for the park.

Of course. There's no way they would get away without revealing what they believe was the cause. It was too big a news story. It's still closed so I assume either the investigation is still pending or they know what happened and are trying to figure out how to spin it/what steps need to be implemented/how to fix the trains etc (depending on what they find) to prevent any additional fear of the public.

Jen

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by RobLec RobLec Profile at 8/7/13 8:28:54 AM
HamptonRoadsRider said:

Maybe i'm crazy but i was expecting an "ok here's what actually happened and went wrong" news article/release at some point.

Like Benghazi

GoYanks34 said:

Of course. There's no way they would get away without revealing what they believe was the cause. It was too big a news story. It's still closed so I assume either the investigation is still pending or they know what happened and are trying to figure out how to spin it

like Benghazi

antikythera said:

and will keep it mute after that for the most part since they will want the GP to forget about it which most have...

Just like Benghazi.

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by HamptonRoadsRider HamptonRoadsRider Profile at 8/7/13 9:28:57 AM
Thanks! I figure you guys and gals have seen this before so should know the drill. Makes sense that if and when they open it again they better explain a few things to the public.

Benhgazi? guess i better UTMFSE

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by RobLec RobLec Profile at 8/7/13 12:13:21 PM
HamptonRoadsRider said:
Benhgazi? guess i better UTMFSE


Isn't that the new coaster at BGT? ;)


(Sorry if I went off the deep end earlier this morning.

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by Overbanked Overbanked Profile at 8/7/13 3:35:01 PM
^^^Whoa, the normally composed Rob getting political. That's okay, I definitely spoke my share of off base commentary. ;)

Ironically, I literally had to UTMFSE just to know what 'UTMFSE' stood for. LOL

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by beastmaster beastmaster Profile at 8/7/13 3:46:05 PM
I just did as well.
The amusement park rises bold and stark
Kids are huddled on the beach in a mist...
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by HamptonRoadsRider HamptonRoadsRider Profile at 8/7/13 4:39:11 PM
Overbanked said:

Ironically, I literally had to UTMFSE just to know what 'UTMFSE' stood for. LOL

Lol i think we all had to the first time. Honestly, im not the biggest fan of the term as it often defeats the purpose of a forum. You could apply it just about any question...then what would we talk about?

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by GoYanks34 GoYanks34 Profile at 8/16/13 7:55:38 PM
Looks like IR is back open in San Antonio. I'm surprised they had it closed this long and that there have not been any reports on the Texas Giant yet.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/business/local/article/Fiesta-Texas-reopens-Iron-Rattler-adds-seatbelts-4736045.php

Jen

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by alpengeistno3 at 8/17/13 1:54:54 AM
Well, as the picture shows, it was closed this long to HASTILY add seat belts to a ride that wasn't designed for them. I think they did that pretty quick, considering. Now, the question is whether is was a big a hack job as the leg shackles and ankle clamps they added to the three SROS coasters after the SFNE incident.

Paul

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by Overbanked Overbanked Profile at 9/11/13 9:42:09 AM
The New TX Giant is expected to reopen this weekend. SFOT sent out this press release below.

www.sixflags.com/overtexas/info/texasupdate.aspx

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by GoYanks34 GoYanks34 Profile at 9/11/13 12:11:44 PM
http://www.bnd.com/2013/09/10/2791074/suit-filed-against-six-flags-in.html

Jen

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by frontrow frontrow Profile at 9/11/13 3:52:57 PM
I hope the family get every penny that they are asking for. This way those children will have some financial security. I think they deserve that after losing their mother. I also think Six Flags should settle this as quickly and quietly as possible. If Six Flags disputes it, that will only create more public criticism.

* This post was modified at 9/11/13 3:58:03 PM *

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by GoYanks34 GoYanks34 Profile at 9/11/13 5:18:27 PM
frontrow said:

I hope the family get every penny that they are asking for. This way those children will have some financial security. I think they deserve that after losing their mother. I also think Six Flags should settle this as quickly and quietly as possible. If Six Flags disputes it, that will only create more public criticism.

I'm sure they will settle. That way there's a gag order on all parties involved as a contingency to the payout. That's the way corporations like to do things.

Jen

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by depotrat at 9/11/13 10:01:53 PM
^ It won't be SFI deciding to settle. The insurance company will be running the show here and there almost always is a settlement because it is cheaper for the insurance company and faster than years of litigation for the family.
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by SirWillow SirWillow Profile at 9/12/13 10:25:30 PM
A few notes that I think some are missing in this suit-

Comments such as "The suit says Esparza was upside down in her seat and holding on for “dear life” before she was thrown to her death. " do not lend credibility to the suit.

neither does comments such as "The lawsuit alleges Six Flags was negligent because the amusement park had known for decades the risks and extreme dangers posed by such rides, yet failed to make the rides safer until after after a serious injury or death has occurred."

I agree that Six Flags is at fault as she never should have been allowed to ride. She was much to large and the restraint did not fit. But there are a number of spurious claims and comments that have no credibility in this suit as well.

Additionally, those "poor children" are adults, as seen in the comment that says, "According to the lawsuit, Esparza, who has also gone by the last name of Ayala-Gaona, had been riding by herself in the front left seat of the train’s second car behind her daughter and son-in-law when the incident happened." so they aren't being left as young parentless kids.

Should Six Flags pay up some for this? yes, as it's fairly obviously due to operator error. But there are also limits and some common sense that needs to be used before people get sucked into something that isn't legitimate, as I see starting to happen from a couple of the previous comments.

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by GoYanks34 GoYanks34 Profile at 9/14/13 9:02:58 PM
To anyone who has ridden this coaster before:

Are these restraints similar to the old ones or completely different? They look "El Toro" like. Just curious.

http://www.dallasnews.com/photos/20130914-texas-giant-roller-coaster-reopens-at-six-flags.ece?ssimg=1195510#ssTop1195522

Jen

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by chitlins73 chitlins73 Profile at 9/15/13 7:26:17 AM
There is suppose to be a new safety feature to the new seats and it is a weight sensor. I am curious what this means??
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by beastmaster beastmaster Profile at 9/15/13 9:23:19 AM
chitlins73 said:

There is suppose to be a new safety feature to the new seats and it is a weight sensor. I am curious what this means??

It means I'm in trouble if I go to Texas ;)

The amusement park rises bold and stark
Kids are huddled on the beach in a mist...
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by blaughlin at 9/19/13 8:21:09 AM
Oh man that's very sad. Makes me feel kind of bad...
Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by GoYanks34 GoYanks34 Profile at 9/19/13 9:49:21 AM
chitlins73 said:

There is suppose to be a new safety feature to the new seats and it is a weight sensor. I am curious what this means??

I just checked and the Dallas news is the only paper reporting there is a weight sensor. We need someone down there (ERIC!!) to go and check it out. What would a weight sensor really do anyway? It's the body shape that makes a lot more difference than the weight. All it may really do if it's there is alert the ride op to double check the restraint. There's no weight limit restriction - that we would have heard about.

Jen

Re: Death on The New Texas Giant! by Eric_Gieszl Eric_Gieszl Profile at 9/21/13 10:06:05 PM
Six Flags Over Texas isn't exactly next door. It's 3.5 hours from Austin.

I'm going to try to get there sometime next month though so I'll let you know.