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Ultimate Rollercoaster > Discussion Forums > Roller Coasters, Parks & Attractions > Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW?

Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW?

HamptonRoadsRider HamptonRoadsRider Profile

Posted:
7/15/13 at
1:19:19 PM

Hi folks, i'm new here. Been a coaster enthusiast for some years now and even moreso now that my daughter has been old enough to enjoy them with me...

So this has crossed my mind alot lately with the removal of the BBW and the age of the loch ness - what do you think will happen, if anything, to the Loch Ness at BGW. It's really a great centerpiece to the park and while not the most enjoyable ride these days, it is definitely a really beautiful coaster...BGW would not be the same without it

Here's my thinking....
1. Replace the trains with something more comfortable and maybe smoother if possible - definitely a lap bar instead of the harnesses.
2. Rework the train deployment/ride computer to have the interlocking loops used more often like the old days
3. Redo the tunnel!!! Get disneyesque with the tunnel. maybe even randomize it. They have a huge opportunity to make the ride great with this unique tunnel

I think with the three things above the ride could really become a hit again. A highly unlikely Plan B would be to replace the coaster with "Loch Ness 2" - a B&M sitdown with a similar layout much like verbolten replace the BBW - floorless!! That first drop floorless over the lake could be great.

whatcha think?

* This post was modified at 7/15/13 7:16:41 PM *

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by beastmaster beastmaster Profile at 7/15/13 1:41:27 PM
Leave my girl Nessie alone. :)
The amusement park rises bold and stark
Kids are huddled on the beach in a mist...
Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by HamptonRoadsRider HamptonRoadsRider Profile at 7/15/13 1:54:36 PM
beastmaster said:

Leave my girl Nessie alone. :)

:-) i share some sentiment with you. It was my first looping coaster as a kid. I even chickened out the first time i was in line and had to wait until next year! That said, have you ridden near the back lately? Sentiment has been replaced with headaches.

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by drachen drachen Profile at 7/15/13 2:04:20 PM
Send the trains through the loops at the same time? Absolutely!

But I have to think it has more now to do with operations than anything else. Timing the loops may have made sense with three-train operation. Do they ever run three trains anymore?

With two trains, perhaps it's not operationally "economical" to hold one for so long... Just a thought. I don't know for sure.

I actually like the simple tunnel. I would rather they leave it alone. I like the darkness.

Regarding the trains, I'm on the fence. Part of me would miss the old Arrow train, but another part of me says that if the new trains increase ridership, reduce wear, and prolong the life of the coaster, then it makes sense.

I had a similar thought last year...

Thoughts of Saving Arrow Loopers

drachen
Coaster to Park Ratio: 4.87 / Steel to Wooden Ratio: 2.57 / Wooden Coaster Percentage: 28%
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Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by HamptonRoadsRider HamptonRoadsRider Profile at 7/15/13 2:57:15 PM
Good stuff drachen - thanks for the long read (your old thread) on a slow work day!

I often wonder if it was always this rough - maybe i was just smaller back in the early 80's so it felt smoother. My early years the first drop was HUGE airtime in the back. My rear end was always flying off the seat!!

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by GoYanks34 GoYanks34 Profile at 7/15/13 5:53:41 PM
I think Nessie is the only Arrow looper of her generation that I would consider in FANTASTIC shape and very ride-able. I don't think they should do anything to her. She's an icon. If they could run the trains to loop simultaneously again that would be awesome but if not I understand why. If they want to change the trains I don't have a problem with it but leave the track and elements alone.

I can ride Nessie several times in a row consecutively with no pain, there's not one other Arrow Looper still alive that I can say that about. Most of them I can't ride more than once a day if that (I'm talking to you Anaconda!).

Jen

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by drachen drachen Profile at 7/15/13 6:50:27 PM
GoYanks34 said:

I can ride Nessie several times in a row consecutively with no pain, there's not one other Arrow Looper still alive that I can say that about.

Jen

I agree Jen. The only other Arrow I can say I rode 100% comfortably is Viper at Magic Mountain. Overall, I think that was Arrow's best big looper.

drachen
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Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by HamptonRoadsRider HamptonRoadsRider Profile at 7/15/13 7:15:39 PM
Jen I agree 100% that it's much easier on the body than Anaconda! Now theres a ride that could use some reworking.I tend to skip it altogether these days. Maybe ill try it front next time, the arrow coasters are typically smoother up front, nessie certainly is.
Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by leviathan leviathan Profile at 7/15/13 10:35:11 PM
It's a few years younger, but Viper at Darien Lake is also still a decent ride.

Is Nessie trimmed? Maybe at more than one point? I don't recall if it had always been that way, but I want to say it was based on my visit last year. Regardless, it did seem a bit rough, but she also hauls the mail...

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by Eric_Gieszl Eric_Gieszl Profile at 7/15/13 10:58:30 PM
I think many enthusiasts (especially younger ones) realize that Loch Ness Monster was never smooth. Arrow's track design never lent itself to being like a B&M.

I agree Loch Ness Monster is in perfect shape as-is.

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by Cyclone_Phil Cyclone_Phil Profile at 7/15/13 11:04:10 PM
I don't expect them changing much with lnm either. Trains, i guess they could always change those. I think the fact it only has loops and not corkscrews helps it make it less painful, how many pure arrow corckscrew coasters are left? Python was scrapped for jungala. Also what is the ideal running age for a coaster 40 years? Because as historic as this coaster is, nothing lasts forever, eventually this coaster will be replaced, it's all a matter of what things the replacement ride can do that not only preserves the history, but also makes the ride better.
Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by GoYanks34 GoYanks34 Profile at 7/15/13 11:20:08 PM
Cyclone_Phil said:

I don't expect them changing much with lnm either. Trains, i guess they could always change those. I think the fact it only has loops and not corkscrews helps it make it less painful, how many pure arrow corckscrew coasters are left? Python was scrapped for jungala. Also what is the ideal running age for a coaster 40 years? Because as historic as this coaster is, nothing lasts forever, eventually this coaster will be replaced, it's all a matter of what things the replacement ride can do that not only preserves the history, but also makes the ride better.

Great Phil - now I'm going to have nightmares tonight about demolishing Nessie! I don't do well with change - especially coasters I love and have a history with removal. Nessie was my first full circuit looper. Lightning Loops was my first shuttle looper and I'm still not over that. Don't even get me started on Free Fall or I might start to cry. I get very attached to inanimate objects - I'd never make it as a Buddhist. ;-)

Jen

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by antikythera antikythera Profile at 7/16/13 12:27:52 AM
HamptonRoadsRider said:

Jen I agree 100% that it's much easier on the body than Anaconda! Now theres a ride that could use some reworking.I tend to skip it altogether these days. Maybe ill try it front next time, the arrow coasters are typically smoother up front, nessie certainly is.

Riding the front of Anaconda is the only way to handle it nowadays. The sidewiner into the mid-course brake in the last four cars has been one of the most painful Arrow experiences I've had in recent years.

Like Phil said, these Arrows will eventually come down, despite all our well wishing -- Anaconda has gone from adequate to rough to painful in a matter of a few years.

She's definitely out the door soon, I can feel it.

Guess there is only room for one serpent in Virginia and Nessie looks like she's here to stay.

* This post was modified at 7/16/13 12:30:15 AM *

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by LoneStar LoneStar Profile at 7/16/13 7:20:32 AM
GoYanks34 said:

I think Nessie is the only Arrow looper of her generation that I would consider in FANTASTIC shape and very ride-able.

Jen

Objection! The defense calls on Vortex, CPs Corkscrew, and Ocean Park's Dragon as smooth, re-ridable, and dang fun Arrow loopers!

But Viper is sentenced for being way over-braked and way too painful.

- Pat-O

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by Cyclone_Phil Cyclone_Phil Profile at 7/16/13 7:51:05 AM
GoYanks34 said:

Great Phil - now I'm going to have nightmares tonight about demolishing Nessie! I don't do well with change - especially coasters I love and have a history with removal. Nessie was my first full circuit looper. Lightning Loops was my first shuttle looper and I'm still not over that. Don't even get me started on Free Fall or I might start to cry. I get very attached to inanimate objects - I'd never make it as a Buddhist. ;-)

Jen


Lol, i miss bbw, but sadly nothing lasts forever as they say. If nessie lasts 40yrs, i think that would be amazing. I'm sure we'll all be having emotional attachments to the b&m coasters when they become 30-40yrs.

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by GoYanks34 GoYanks34 Profile at 7/16/13 8:21:27 AM
Cyclone_Phil said:

GoYanks34 said:


Great Phil - now I'm going to have nightmares tonight about demolishing Nessie! I don't do well with change - especially coasters I love and have a history with removal. Nessie was my first full circuit looper. Lightning Loops was my first shuttle looper and I'm still not over that. Don't even get me started on Free Fall or I might start to cry. I get very attached to inanimate objects - I'd never make it as a Buddhist. ;-)

Jen


Lol, i miss bbw, but sadly nothing lasts forever as they say. If nessie lasts 40yrs, i think that would be amazing. I'm sure we'll all be having emotional attachments to the b&m coasters when they become 30-40yrs.

Great! Now I'm going to be crying and mourning Nitro all day - when will you learn! LOL!

Jen

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by GoYanks34 GoYanks34 Profile at 7/16/13 8:26:25 AM
LoneStar said:

GoYanks34 said:

I think Nessie is the only Arrow looper of her generation that I would consider in FANTASTIC shape and very ride-able.

Jen

Objection! The defense calls on Vortex, CPs Corkscrew, and Ocean Park's Dragon as smooth, re-ridable, and dang fun Arrow loopers!

But Viper is sentenced for being way over-braked and way too painful.

- Pat-O

Vortex is definitely one of the more rideable ones but I haven't ridden it in about 4 years so I can't comment on how it is today. Corkscrew - really? I haven't ridden it in a few years - when I go I don't bother but last I remember it wasn't too pleasant. Never rode Viper so can't comment there either. There's always the option of modifying the coasters like Kennywood did. I never rode Phantom as it was intended but its hybrid is wonderful.

Jen

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by LoneStar LoneStar Profile at 7/16/13 9:03:54 AM
[quote Never rode Viper so can't comment there either. There's always the option of modifying the coasters like Kennywood did. I never rode Phantom as it was intended but its hybrid is wonderful.

Jen

I rode Viper a while back in 2004. It was so over-braked it just crawled through the elements.

After the first loop, there were brakes on the curve leading into the back-to-back loops.

The mid-course brought the train to an almost complete stop, so the train was extremely slow through the boomerang.

Exiting the boomerang there was ANOTHER brake leading into the double corkscrew.

As a result, we got jarred around in the cars, and we literally fell into the OTSRs while inverted. It was painful and very boring.

I, too, wish I could have ridden Steel Phantom. I'm hoping I get to make it on Anaconda before it is demolished, just to say I did.

- Pat-O

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by drachen drachen Profile at 7/16/13 9:12:21 AM
LoneStar said:

I rode Viper a while back in 2004. It was so over-braked it just crawled through the elements.

After the first loop, there were brakes on the curve leading into the back-to-back loops.

The mid-course brought the train to an almost complete stop, so the train was extremely slow through the boomerang.

Exiting the boomerang there was ANOTHER brake leading into the double corkscrew.

As a result, we got jarred around in the cars, and we literally fell into the OTSRs while inverted. It was painful and very boring.

I, too, wish I could have ridden Steel Phantom. I'm hoping I get to make it on Anaconda before it is demolished, just to say I did.

- Pat-O

Viper is over-braked, and has been that way for quite some time. But for someone who loves Arrow coasters, I thought it was their best, smoothest effort when I rode it in 2002 and again in 2005.

Yes, make an effort to ride Anaconda before it's too late (if it ever becomes too late). It's got a great first drop into the underwater tunnel, and a fun first half. The double corkscrew over the water is pretty neat too.

The odd twisting portion before the last two inversions is the only part of the coaster that I found any issue with.

drachen
Coaster to Park Ratio: 4.87 / Steel to Wooden Ratio: 2.57 / Wooden Coaster Percentage: 28%
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Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by HamptonRoadsRider HamptonRoadsRider Profile at 7/16/13 9:25:30 AM
leviathan said:

It's a few years younger, but Viper at Darien Lake is also still a decent ride.

Is Nessie trimmed? Maybe at more than one point? I don't recall if it had always been that way, but I want to say it was based on my visit last year. Regardless, it did seem a bit rough, but she also hauls the mail...

Leviathan - I can tell you Nessie is trimmed on the small bunny hop before the first loop - IIRC that has always been there but at 8-9 yrs old i knew nothing of trim brakes! I thought i had even read it's now trimmed after the first drop before the steep hill going up to the turnaround, but i would never notice that myself.

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by alpengeistno3 at 7/16/13 11:17:18 AM
HamptonRoadsRider said:

Hi folks, i'm new here. Been a coaster enthusiast for some years now and even moreso now that my daughter has been old enough to enjoy them with me...

Welcome HRR, I am a Virginia Beach native, so it is great seeing another Tidewater native here on the boards. I used to work at BGW when I was in college. 1 year as a ride op on Drachen Fire and 2 years on Alpengeist back when it first opened. On slow days, I regularly got sent over to work LNM, so I may have some insight into the operational sides of the ride (although about 15 years old now, so a lot of things have changed since then.)

HamptonRoadsRider said:

So this has crossed my mind alot lately with the removal of the BBW and the age of the loch ness - what do you think will happen, if anything, to the Loch Ness at BGW. It's really a great centerpiece to the park and while not the most enjoyable ride these days, it is definitely a really beautiful coaster...BGW would not be the same without it

I think BG feels the same about Loch Ness as you do. The situation behind the removal of BBW extends beyond the age of the ride. The swinging nature of the ride put a lot more stress on the track supports. It was not unusual to see maintenance welding spots where the support connections had loosened back in the late 90's when I came in early to work (because I had to leave so early in the morning in order to guarantee I didn't get caught in traffic on the HRBT.)

Also, the limited number of suspended coasters made the parts harder to come by, especially for the trains. I'm sure if BBW was still around today, most of the parts would have to be custom made (since the removal of XLR-8, it had the sole distinction of being the oldest one in existence, predating Iron Dragon by 3 years.) I remember being sent to work Wolf and part of my training was to make sure to check the "diapers" under the wheel assemblies when the train returned. I asked, "what am I looking for?" and answer was a very matter-of-fact, "Parts!"

LNM is a traditional Arrow looper using the old "corkscrew-style" trains. Plenty of parks still use those trains and parts are still plentiful for maintaining them. (I should mention that the Arrows with the newer style trains like those used on Scream Machine and Anaconda seem to be the ones that are disappearing as more of those rides are being torn down/redesigned).

So, Loch Ness is probably not going anywhere for the same reasons that BBW left.

HamptonRoadsRider said:

Here's my thinking....
1. Replace the trains with something more comfortable and maybe smoother if possible - definitely a lap bar instead of the harnesses.
2. Rework the train deployment/ride computer to have the interlocking loops used more often like the old days
3. Redo the tunnel!!! Get disneyesque with the tunnel. maybe even randomize it. They have a huge opportunity to make the ride great with this unique tunnel

1. The only real problem with Loch Ness's trains is that they lack leg room in the rear seat of each unit. I suppose a new train could be designed, but unless there is another park that is interested in purchasing said train as well, there really isn't a market for it. Having a new train developed SOLELY for LNM would be extremely cost prohibitive.

2. I have always thought there was 2 sides to the reason the park has stopped the double looping on Loch Ness. 1st, operationally, in order achieve a double loop, it requires dispatching the train immediately after A block (the lift) is clear. I believe the time was 56 seconds. With a 4 person crew, this is very easy to achieve, but BGE prefers to use a 3 person crew now with the loader
walking the entire length of the platform. Still, often, it is not a problem, but when things go "wrong" (handicap, child swap, someone dropping something in the trough.) it can slow dispatches down a lot. Normally, that isn't an issue with most rides, but since Loch Ness lacks a safety brake to stack the 3rd train on, it requires the 3rd train to get stopped on the 2nd lift. When running 3 trains in close succession, the control op must manually stop the train on the 1st lift before it crests the top or they will have a block set up where the train stops on the block brake before the mountain. This is a HUGE problem on Loch Ness since the train does not park completely on the block brake and it requires maintenance to come out and wince the back car completely onto the brake run before they have to manually push it into the mountain.

To make things simpler, BGE slowed down the 1st lift to increase the dispatch time to around 70 seconds for A block to clear. (I have never timed it, but it seems to be around 15-20 seconds longer). By increasing the time, the ops have more time to prevent set-ups and the dreaded block set-up. The side effect is that the trains cannot get close enough to double loop :(

The 2nd part, I have heard recently is that double looping puts a lot of stress on the loop structure. Eliminating that feature is a measure towards preserving the ride. Makes sense, but I personally think the operational side has more to do with it.

3. In the early 90's, Busch used to employ several effect in the tunnel; strobe lights, fog, and a Loch Ness monster complete with the head just as you exit. Having ridden it before the effects were added, during them, and the various stages of their removal, I prefer the darkness. The only thing I wish they had kept was the head at the end.

HamptonRoadsRider said:

I think with the three things above the ride could really become a hit again. A highly unlikely Plan B would be to replace the coaster with "Loch Ness 2" - a B&M sitdown with a similar layout much like verbolten replace the BBW - floorless!! That first drop floorless over the lake could be great.

whatcha think?

Nice ideas about Loch Ness. In my observations from visiting the park yesterday and riding 8 times in a row, guests are still nostalgic for LNM. I was surprised that Busch was selling 35th anniversary drinking cups throughout the park, but there was no tribute to the ride visible at the ride site (no sign, the ops didn't add it to the spiel.) I guess 35 is an odd number to make a sign for, like they did for the 25th anniversary 10 years ago, but still, SOMETHING would have been a nice touch.

With that being said, most of the riders in the back were less than pleased with their ride experience, particularly the exit from the 1st loop. There is a huge spine compression spot pulling out of that loop. Other complaints were about the cramped knee space (taller riders, of course.) In the middle seats, cars 6 and 5, the complaints about the layout were a little less. While I didn't ride there, I know the front has a nasty jar after the 1st drop going into the turn above Land of the Dragons.

The biggest thing Loch Ness suffers from, like Drachen Fire did, is progress. BGE has shown little attachment to rides of its past with as many coasters having been removed as are currently operating at the park. While Loch Ness has developed a cult following from their extensive marketing of it over the years, the fact is, it is a dinosaur compared to the big, shiny B&M's that surround it and the sleek modern Verbolten. This will eventually catch up with LNM as GP continues to realize that the old girl is just not as good as they remember it to be relative to the other coasters in the park, however, the one thing that Drachen Fire, Wild Katze, Wild Izzy/Maus, Glissade, and even BBW didn't have going for them is 35 years of nostalgia.

Paul

* This post was modified at 7/16/13 11:32:42 AM *

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by HamptonRoadsRider HamptonRoadsRider Profile at 7/16/13 11:27:53 AM
Paul - thanks for the great post! Nice to hear some insider thoughts on this. With both loops having their own arch, it seems unlikely that running both trains in the loop at once would cause any more stress than a single train - but i'm no engineer. I do remember the effects in the tunnel, the strobe lights were probably the best, i seem to remember mist in there as well. It seems like it would be a pretty low cost way to freshen up the ride to add back some effects. Before i ever rode the ride, the mystery of the tunnel was a big deal! I imagine if they fixed it up i'd be curious once again.

Again thanks for the informative post about nessie!

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by alpengeistno3 at 7/16/13 11:46:25 AM
HamptonRoadsRider said:

Paul - thanks for the great post! Nice to hear some insider thoughts on this. With both loops having their own arch, it seems unlikely that running both trains in the loop at once would cause any more stress than a single train - but i'm no engineer. I do remember the effects in the tunnel, the strobe lights were probably the best, i seem to remember mist in there as well. It seems like it would be a pretty low cost way to freshen up the ride to add back some effects. Before i ever rode the ride, the mystery of the tunnel was a big deal! I imagine if they fixed it up i'd be curious once again.


Again thanks for the informative post about nessie!

Actually, the arches are part of the problem. All "modern" Arrow loopers use A-line poles to support the loops from the sides. With the arches, Loch Ness lacks the support there, which is probably the point that needs the support the most. I'm not going to say that what Loch Ness has is not sufficient since I don't know, but I suspect that it has more "wobble" than a modern vertical loop. Sending 2 trains through the structure doesn't add stress, it multiplies it, particularly at the base where all of the supports for both loops meet (I can't remember if the loop structures are built on individual footers or a single concrete pad, but I do remember they are built in a block less around a foot apart from each other.) 2 loops vibrating in opposite directions of each other at the same time (assuming a perfectly timed double loop) is not necessarily a good thing for the longevity of the ride.

Paul

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by HamptonRoadsRider HamptonRoadsRider Profile at 7/16/13 1:53:49 PM
^^^ sounds like they need to try "Flex Seal" on Nessie...that should take care of it....
Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by Cyclone_Phil Cyclone_Phil Profile at 7/16/13 2:36:33 PM
lol, sorry Jen just being a bit too honest :)
drachen said:

Yes, make an effort to ride Anaconda before it's too late (if it ever becomes too late). It's got a great first drop into the underwater tunnel, and a fun first half. The double corkscrew over the water is pretty neat too.

The odd twisting portion before the last two inversions is the only part of the coaster that I found any issue with.

As much as I slam Anaconda as being among my least favorite rides there, I will say the corkscrew isn't that bad and the tunnel is my favorite part of the ride. It's that mid transition at the mcbr that the ride shows it was put together wrong and there's just no way to avoid the banging into the otsr. It also would be nice if the mcbr didn't kill almost all the momentum of the train as well.

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by beastmaster beastmaster Profile at 7/16/13 3:33:48 PM
I remember reading, in my younger days, that Anaconda had an "underwater tunnel." As a developing coaster enthusiass, that intrigued me to no end. When I rode it the first time, imagine my disappointment to find out the tunnel was about a second-and-a-half long. And it's not like you really feel like you're "under water" for any reason during that extraordinary length of time.
The amusement park rises bold and stark
Kids are huddled on the beach in a mist...
Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by alpengeistno3 at 7/16/13 4:54:24 PM
So many things about Anaconda were soooo wrong. They originally marketed it as having 6 loops. I don't have confirmation on this, but I believe the reason it sat half completed up to the block brake for the entire 1990 season was they had to redesign the butterfly loop portion (into the bastardization that it is now.) I don't think there is another Arrow looper that took 2 seasons to complete and has a fully active block brake for 2 train operation.

Paul

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by Coaster316 at 7/16/13 5:42:42 PM
alpengeistno3 said:

I don't have confirmation on this, but I believe the reason it sat half completed up to the block brake for the entire 1990 season was they had to redesign the butterfly loop portion (into the bastardization that it is now.) I don't think there is another Arrow looper that took 2 seasons to complete and has a fully active block brake for 2 train operation.


Paul

Hmmm...this is the first I've heard of Anaconda taking two years to build. I don't recall if I went to the park in 1990 or not, but I don't remember seeing a half built coaster there ever. I see in news archives that the ride wasn't announced until September 23, 1990 and opened in spring 1991. Wikipedia (I know) says construction began near the end of the 1990 season.

What else can you recall about Anaconda's construction? Was the coaster half built and then not even announced until later?

- Jeff

ETA: Its not on the 1990 park map, so its not like it was supposed to open and didn't.

* This post was modified at 7/16/13 5:43:58 PM *

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by alpengeistno3 at 7/16/13 8:45:23 PM
I have my map saying "site of new attraction for 1991" and a picture from the top of Eiffel tower. We went to KD in May and everyone was wondering "what ride is that?" Can't say when the announcement was made since there was no internet then and Virginia Beach news didn't really cover anything going on amusement park-wise until it was set to open. I'll have to dig both of those up when I get back to MD. (I saved all of that stuff.)

Paul

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by HamptonRoadsRider HamptonRoadsRider Profile at 7/16/13 9:24:20 PM
Yup, I remember anaconda being built during the season. I want to say the lake was dry. But I remember vaguely seeing the track under construction, probably my second or third time there
Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by Coaster316 at 7/16/13 10:14:51 PM
Thanks to both. I either didn't go in 1990 or just don't remember seeing the ride under construction. I'll check with the family to see if anyone has any pictures/memories.

KD 1990 Map

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by drachen drachen Profile at 7/17/13 1:00:38 PM
beastmaster said:

I remember reading, in my younger days, that Anaconda had an "underwater tunnel." As a developing coaster enthusiass, that intrigued me to no end. When I rode it the first time, imagine my disappointment to find out the tunnel was about a second-and-a-half long. And it's not like you really feel like you're "under water" for any reason during that extraordinary length of time.

They did that, probably because many people just can't hold their breath very long.

drachen
Coaster to Park Ratio: 4.87 / Steel to Wooden Ratio: 2.57 / Wooden Coaster Percentage: 28%
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Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by drachen drachen Profile at 7/17/13 1:09:38 PM
alpengeistno3 said:

So many things about Anaconda were soooo wrong. They originally marketed it as having 6 loops. I don't have confirmation on this, but I believe the reason it sat half completed up to the block brake for the entire 1990 season was they had to redesign the butterfly loop portion (into the bastardization that it is now.) I don't think there is another Arrow looper that took 2 seasons to complete and has a fully active block brake for 2 train operation.


Paul

I had neve heard that, but it certainly makes sense. I'm now fascinated by the story. How can we find the truth?

And I think Anaconda would have been pretty sweet with the Arrow butterfly element...

drachen
Coaster to Park Ratio: 4.87 / Steel to Wooden Ratio: 2.57 / Wooden Coaster Percentage: 28%
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Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by alpengeistno3 at 7/17/13 2:07:40 PM
To quote the X-Files, "the truth is out there" :)
I'm always one to seek a good coaster conspiracy theory (couldn't get anything out of Toomer about Drachen Fire when I met him at Coastermania '99. Wish I had thought to try asking him about Anaconda.)

Paul

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by PkD4Life PkD4Life Profile at 7/17/13 3:28:46 PM
Anaconda will be long gone before Loch Ness is even thought about leaving. I could easily see Loch Ness being one of the last Arrows standing.

We did the backstage coaster tour last year and it features Loch Ness. They have one of the cars from Python sitting down below in peices to be used to extra parts. The maintenance guy said they could build a new train with all of the extra parts. Also within the past few years B&M has come in and redid the wiring for the ride board and helped with a few extra things on the ride. Nothing major or anything but did help...according to the tour guide it was part of the package in getting Griffon, so take that for whatever it is worth...lol

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by GoYanks34 GoYanks34 Profile at 7/17/13 9:21:37 PM
PkD4Life said:

Anaconda will be long gone before Loch Ness is even thought about leaving. I could easily see Loch Ness being one of the last Arrows standing.


We did the backstage coaster tour last year and it features Loch Ness. They have one of the cars from Python sitting down below in peices to be used to extra parts. The maintenance guy said they could build a new train with all of the extra parts. Also within the past few years B&M has come in and redid the wiring for the ride board and helped with a few extra things on the ride. Nothing major or anything but did help...according to the tour guide it was part of the package in getting Griffon, so take that for whatever it is worth...lol

"Like" button!!! :-)

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by Cyclone_Phil Cyclone_Phil Profile at 7/18/13 1:20:16 AM
Ditto, "the more you know".
Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by alpengeistno3 at 7/18/13 7:14:55 PM
Coaster316 said:

Thanks to both. I either didn't go in 1990 or just don't remember seeing the ride under construction. I'll check with the family to see if anyone has any pictures/memories.

Well, look what I found here in Virginia Beach.

101_0940

101_0942

101_0943

I am still going to have to wait until I get back to MD to look for my picture of the ride under construction, but I knew I had a map with Anaconda marked on it from my trip in May.

Paul

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by Coaster316 at 7/19/13 7:22:00 AM
That's awesome. I was wondering where the path was leading to in the 1990 map I linked to from KD's facebook page. They just cut off the New for 1991 part.

ETA: Still, it wasn't on the map as a 1990 attraction, which was my point.

Would love to know more about its construction. Wish my memory was better. :)

* This post was modified at 7/19/13 7:23:13 AM *

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by alpengeistno3 at 7/19/13 11:33:18 AM
Coaster316 said:

That's awesome. I was wondering where the path was leading to in the 1990 map I linked to from KD's facebook page. They just cut off the New for 1991 part.


ETA: Still, it wasn't on the map as a 1990 attraction, which was my point.

Would love to know more about its construction. Wish my memory was better. :)

I think I had commented that their '90 map was missing that. Guess the park didn't want to include it as it would totally give away their little "guess the map" game.

The only thing I remember is that it was completed up to the block brake by the time we went to the park in May. It appeared like all the of the footers were set as the lake was not drained at the time. There was not construction equipment on site, so it is not like they were in the process of completing the ride at the time.

My conspiracy theory is that the park had contracted Arrow to build Anaconda with 6 inversions, but realized somewhere in the process of erection that the new butterfly inversion would not have enough speed to invert the train. Somewhere during the rest of the season, they redesigned the track so the curves would not invert and changed the terminology to "6 loops" in the marketing campaign.

Paul

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by Overbanked Overbanked Profile at 7/19/13 3:00:44 PM
drachen said:

GoYanks34 said:

I can ride Nessie several times in a row consecutively with no pain, there's not one other Arrow Looper still alive that I can say that about.

Jen

I agree Jen. The only other Arrow I can say I rode 100% comfortably is Viper at Magic Mountain. Overall, I think that was Arrow's best big looper.

I agree with those two being comfortable. I'll add Carolina Cyclone to that list, and to a lesser extent Tenn Tornado wasn't too bad for a large looper.

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by drachen drachen Profile at 7/19/13 4:34:49 PM
Overbanked said:

I agree with those two being comfortable. I'll add Carolina Cyclone to that list, and to a lesser extent Tenn Tornado wasn't too bad for a large looper.

For some reason, I don't count Tennessee Tornado with the rest of them.

It is, hands down, the smoothest Arrow looper ever created. But, it's much newer, and was a post-Toomer design.

The opportunities for late-90's Arrow dried up because B&M had a vice grip on the market in those years. Intamin and Premier were more marketable options at that point too.

I would have loved to have seen what else Arrow could have done, 4-D coasters aside. I wish that design would have taken off as well.

drachen
Coaster to Park Ratio: 4.87 / Steel to Wooden Ratio: 2.57 / Wooden Coaster Percentage: 28%
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Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by Cyclone_Phil Cyclone_Phil Profile at 7/19/13 9:33:34 PM
I agree, I loved Tennessee Tornado. If only the walk to the station wasn't so long.. At least it never got too crowded and they allowed rerides (even allowing us to stand on the exit side to get on the next empty seat)* at least from my last time there in 2006.

As for Arrow, I wonder if things would have been different if they had just made x as a winged coaster and not have the seats spin? They could've gotten a foothold on this ride type years before intamin and B&M made theirs.

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by Aldo at 7/20/13 2:06:30 AM
My conspiracy theory is that the park had contracted Arrow to build Anaconda with 6 inversions, but realized somewhere in the process of erection that the new butterfly inversion would not have enough speed to invert the train. Somewhere during the rest of the season, they redesigned the track so the curves would not invert and changed the terminology to "6 loops" in the marketing campaign.

Paul

Paul, when you say the butterfly inversion do you mean the Kamikaze Curve/Batwing inversion found on SFMM Viper and KI Vortex; or was it going to be a new inversion?

When I think of the butterfly inversion I think of the first two inversions on SFOG's Ninja.

I do not know if this is accurate but I read on another website that Anaconda was originally intended to open in 1990. But when they encountered the problems with the theory you mentioned, it was pushed back to 1991. So that is why Anaconda sat there half built during the 1990 season. Please correct me if I am wrong though.

* This post was modified at 7/20/13 2:16:44 AM *

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by alpengeistno3 at 7/20/13 11:04:41 AM
Aldo said:

My conspiracy theory is that the park had contracted Arrow to build Anaconda with 6 inversions, but realized somewhere in the process of erection that the new butterfly inversion would not have enough speed to invert the train. Somewhere during the rest of the season, they redesigned the track so the curves would not invert and changed the terminology to "6 loops" in the marketing campaign.


Paul

Paul, when you say the butterfly inversion do you mean the Kamikaze Curve/Batwing inversion found on SFMM Viper and KI Vortex; or was it going to be a new inversion?

When I think of the butterfly inversion I think of the first two inversions on SFOG's Ninja.

I do not know if this is accurate but I read on another website that Anaconda was originally intended to open in 1990. But when they encountered the problems with the theory you mentioned, it was pushed back to 1991. So that is why Anaconda sat there half built during the 1990 season. Please correct me if I am wrong though.

Well, none of us really know what the original butterfly was supposed to be. That is the name that Kings Dominion and Arrow came up with for the current configuration (actually "butterfly loop", much like Magnum's "pretzel loop" in that neither are really inversions).

Besides Anaconda being half completed for the entire 1990 season, I found it curious that it has a block brake for 2 train operation. Can't think of another Arrow coaster that uses one and never ran 3 trains. I had long thought that Anaconda was supposed to open in 1990, but no one has confirmed that. I'd be curious what other website you heard that from.

Paul

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by Aldo at 7/20/13 4:05:09 PM
Besides Anaconda being half completed for the entire 1990 season, I found it curious that it has a block brake for 2 train operation. Can't think of another Arrow coaster that uses one and never ran 3 trains. I had long thought that Anaconda was supposed to open in 1990, but no one has confirmed that. I'd be curious what other website you heard that from.

Paul

Dragon Fire at Canada's Wonderland has a block brake after the corkscrews but I have only seen the train completely stop there when it was being tested before the season opened (this was back when I used to work there). Originally, when the ride first opened it did come with three trains but only two were ever used because its a short ride. The third train was eventually used on The Bat (Vekoma Boomerang) when it was added in 1987.

I heard the information from the Kings Dominion Discussion Forum on Theme Park Review (TPR). Knowing how most of the people on this forum think about TPR I do not know if I should take that information with a grain of salt or if there is any truth to it.

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by Stredain Stredain Profile at 7/21/13 5:14:28 PM
GoYanks34 said:

I can ride Nessie several times in a row consecutively with no pain, there's not one other Arrow Looper still alive that I can say that about. Most of them I can't ride more than once a day if that (I'm talking to you Anaconda!).

Jen


I have heard talk from reliable sources that Nessie
is to be left alone and remain untouched in the park as she is the park's Golden Girl. (source: partner works there). At a mature age of 30, Nessie is definitely a landmark at BGW.
I agree with Jen as Nessie is very easy on the body. If Nessie is removed, alot of fans will most likely launch a huge effort to keep her there.
And whenever I am at BGW, I notice a consistent
stream of people heading for Nessie. Her popularity
speaks for itself.
Stredain

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by leviathan leviathan Profile at 7/21/13 6:07:48 PM
Aldo said:

Besides Anaconda being half completed for the entire 1990 season, I found it curious that it has a block brake for 2 train operation. Can't think of another Arrow coaster that uses one and never ran 3 trains. I had long thought that Anaconda was supposed to open in 1990, but no one has confirmed that. I'd be curious what other website you heard that from.


Paul

Dragon Fire at Canada's Wonderland has a block brake after the corkscrews but I have only seen the train completely stop there when it was being tested before the season opened (this was back when I used to work there). Originally, when the ride first opened it did come with three trains but only two were ever used because its a short ride. The third train was eventually used on The Bat (Vekoma Boomerang) when it was added in 1987.

Hmmm, the Viper at Darien Lake has a block, but I can't think of a time they ever ran 3 trains, although I do think it is (or was) equipped originally with 3. Maybe my memory is failing me...lol. But in any case, they've always used the block as a mid-course to slow the train before the corkscrew. Can't remember if Dragon Fire does the same thing before the helix...I want to say no...

Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by beastmaster beastmaster Profile at 7/21/13 6:11:15 PM
Stredain said:

GoYanks34 said:

I can ride Nessie several times in a row consecutively with no pain, there's not one other Arrow Looper still alive that I can say that about. Most of them I can't ride more than once a day if that (I'm talking to you Anaconda!).

Jen



At a mature age of 30, Nessie is definitely a landmark at BGW.Stredain

35, actually. :)

The amusement park rises bold and stark
Kids are huddled on the beach in a mist...
Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by HamptonRoadsRider HamptonRoadsRider Profile at 7/21/13 9:20:49 PM
Thanks for that info about nessie strayden. I'd add that its always a walk on when I'm at the park. I think the idea and look of Jessie are more popular than the ride itself. Here's hoping Busch finds a way to keep it intact but make the ride experience better.
Re: Future of Loch Ness Monster at BGW? by GoYanks34 GoYanks34 Profile at 7/21/13 11:28:48 PM
HamptonRoadsRider said:

Thanks for that info about nessie strayden. I'd add that its always a walk on when I'm at the park. I think the idea and look of Jessie are more popular than the ride itself. Here's hoping Busch finds a way to keep it intact but make the ride experience better.

Who the hell is Jessie? Is that Nessie's boyfriend? LOL!

I don't think she's going anywhere soon.

Jen