Members, Sign In. Not a member? Sign Up

Ultimate Rollercoaster

Ad
Ultimate Rollercoaster > Discussion Forums > Roller Coasters, Parks & Attractions > Designing a rotating track roller coaster

Designing a rotating track roller coaster

chrissyt

Posted:
12/2/12 at
8:43:54 AM

Hi everyone,
For my current University engineering project I am designing a rotating track roller coaster. Essentially it is a train that runs on a track in the inside of a rotating ferris wheel.
How feasible do you think this would be?
Also I believe a steel-track coaster would be most appropriate for this, but what is the mass per length of track (including supports) compared with that of a wooden track?
Would anyone be interested in me sharing developments in the project?
Many thanks

Re: Designing a rotating track roller coaster *NM* *NM* by CoasterFanatic CoasterFanatic Profile at 12/2/12 5:26:13 PM

Wonder Wheel Coney

* This post was modified at 12/2/12 5:27:00 PM *

Charles Nungester 323 coasters and holding for two years now LOL Last coaster ride. HWN 2011
Re: Designing a rotating track roller coaster *NM* *NM* Photo by SirWillow SirWillow Profile at 12/3/12 4:51:20 PM
I'm thinking it sounds more like a Ring of Fire stuck on the inside of a Ferris Wheel.

Do you mean something like this, but with a ferris wheel also operating on the outside of it?

edit- if the picture doesn't show up you can see it at: http://www.joyrides.com/pne_playland/photos/ring_of_fire.jpg

User Submitted Picture

* This post was modified at 12/4/12 4:31:59 PM *

Re: Designing a rotating track roller coaster *NM* *NM* by chrissyt at 12/4/12 12:54:01 PM
Hi, similar to that, but a rotating track with bumps, hills, possibly even loops. So as it rotates (maybe with the help of brakes), it would lift the train up hills.
But not including an actual ferris wheel, I just used that to portray roughly how it would look.
Re: Designing a rotating track roller coaster by SirWillow SirWillow Profile at 12/4/12 4:36:05 PM
Ok, so now I'm a bit confused as to what you mean by having the track rotate with bumps, hills, and loops. Lost me on that one.

I can think of other ways that some small parts of the track might move- such as with Round About at the old Hard Rock Park:
http://rcdb.com/3853.htm?p=21756

But otherwise I'm lost. You're wanting the whole entire track to be moving? And over a long course? So what's keeping it from collapsing, breaking, etc? How's it going to have the strength to hold the car or train? Can you come up with some sort of picture to show what you're meaning? Right now the only things I'm thinking defy the laws of physics a bit.

Re: Designing a rotating track roller coaster by beastmaster beastmaster Profile at 12/4/12 4:57:51 PM
I really wish I could have rode that. I visited HRP in '08.. on the trip when I met you and your kids at Busch Tampa...but Maximum RPM had yet to open.

Mike

The amusement park rises bold and stark
Kids are huddled on the beach in a mist...
Re: Designing a rotating track roller coaster by AndyShine at 12/4/12 6:55:02 PM
Hi.

This reminds me of the so called KIDNEY COASTER concept of 1907 (I believe). Except the trains ran on the outside of a kidney-shaped wheel. I'm sure you'll find a description onlione somewhere, and maybe a pic. NAPHA News carries an item about this very attraction in a recent issue.

Re: Designing a rotating track roller coaster by Overbanked Overbanked Profile at 12/5/12 5:19:01 AM
beastmaster said:

I really wish I could have rode that. I visited HRP in '08.. on the trip when I met you and your kids at Busch Tampa...but Maximum RPM had yet to open.


Mike

I understand one wanting to ride that thing for the unique factor alone, but Mike you didn't miss much. It's basically a short family coaster. To me the fun karaoke queue experience overshadowed the ride itself.

Re: Designing a rotating track roller coaster Photo by chrissyt at 12/5/12 6:03:01 AM
Hi, here's a simple drawing, just to portray the basic idea

edit: Not sure if the picture is showing up correctly, here's a link:
http://s1359.beta.photobucket.com/user/chrissyt1/media/photo.jpg.html

User Submitted Picture

basic drawing of concept

* This post was modified at 12/5/12 6:04:02 AM *

Re: Designing a rotating track roller coaster by beastmaster beastmaster Profile at 12/5/12 9:03:37 AM
Overbanked said:

beastmaster said:

I really wish I could have rode that. I visited HRP in '08.. on the trip when I met you and your kids at Busch Tampa...but Maximum RPM had yet to open.


Mike

I understand one wanting to ride that thing for the unique factor alone, but Mike you didn't miss much. It's basically a short family coaster. To me the fun karaoke queue experience overshadowed the ride itself.

Yeah, it was just the novelty of it. And a bit of nostalgia..it reminded me of my old Matchbox car garage, where you hand-cranked an elevator that carried the car up to the roof, the bell rang, the door opened, and the car rolled down a ramp. On a much larger scale, this wasn't a helluva lot different!

*EDIT*...Sorry to have hi-jacked your thread, chrissyt.

* This post was modified at 12/5/12 9:06:50 AM *

The amusement park rises bold and stark
Kids are huddled on the beach in a mist...
Re: Designing a rotating track roller coaster by CoasterFanatic CoasterFanatic Profile at 12/5/12 1:46:10 PM
chrissyt said:

Hi, here's a simple drawing, just to portray the basic idea


edit: Not sure if the picture is showing up correctly, here's a link:
http://s1359.beta.photobucket.com/user/chrissyt1/media/photo.jpg.html


If Wonder wheel had all cars together and had a continuous track vs a single track for each car, it could do this, The only problem is the car would never move from its possition, the track spinning would move it and the rotation would have to be fast enough for it to climb and complete the manuvers such as rising over a hill or very fast for the loop you propose.


but the train would always be near the bottom.

Charles Nungester 323 coasters and holding for two years now LOL Last coaster ride. HWN 2011
Re: Designing a rotating track roller coaster by chrissyt at 1/8/13 6:37:53 AM
CoasterFanatic said:

chrissyt said:

Hi, here's a simple drawing, just to portray the basic idea


edit: Not sure if the picture is showing up correctly, here's a link:
http://s1359.beta.photobucket.com/user/chrissyt1/media/photo.jpg.html


If Wonder wheel had all cars together and had a continuous track vs a single track for each car, it could do this, The only problem is the car would never move from its possition, the track spinning would move it and the rotation would have to be fast enough for it to climb and complete the manuvers such as rising over a hill or very fast for the loop you propose.


but the train would always be near the bottom.

The train could apply it's brakes for the track to lift it though

Re: Designing a rotating track roller coaster by SirWillow SirWillow Profile at 1/8/13 9:32:04 AM
chrissyt said:


The train could apply it's brakes for the track to lift it though

Except that the brakes are not on the trains. They are on the tracks. The trains will typically have a fin and then the brakes on the track will grip that fin to hold it in place, or slow the train down. Trying to use brakes like that on a moving track, and changing the direction of gravity from level to "down" is probably not going to work well.

Brakes are also put on the track, not the trains, because of the weight and automation issues. Coaster trains aren't computerized so there is nothing on the trains that could "apply" the brakes.

Re: Designing a rotating track roller coaster by chrissyt at 1/8/13 9:34:18 AM
If electromagnetic brakes were used, they could be switched on and off when desired though surely?
Re: Designing a rotating track roller coaster by SirWillow SirWillow Profile at 1/9/13 8:42:21 AM
There are some coasters that use electromagnetic brakes, but again, the actual brakes and systems are all on the tracks, not the trains. The trains (or cars) will have a magnetic plate on them that will respond to the brakes.

However, if that train has any momentum at all, you're going to need a series of electromagnetic brakes to stop it, not just one, because of the power needed to overcome that momentum. And that's not going to work on the design you're talking about. See the brake runs on Xcelerator, Kingda ka, Superman the Escape and other similar rides with magnetic brake systems.

Re: Designing a rotating track roller coaster by alpengeistno3 at 1/9/13 11:15:30 PM
chrissyt said:

If electromagnetic brakes were used, they could be switched on and off when desired though surely?

I could be wrong on this, but no coaster uses "electro"magnetic brakes. All the ones I have ridden use permanent magnets that are mounted on the trains and can only be released by retracting the fins into the track or, in the case of Supes and Volcano, the magnets are retracted from the train-mounted fins. None of these use electricity to "turn on/switch off" the magnets as that would be a HUGE problem in the event of a power failure during the ride.

Paul

Re: Designing a rotating track roller coaster by Eric_Gieszl Eric_Gieszl Profile at 1/10/13 12:11:29 AM
I believe that Superman The Escape uses the magnetic propulsion system to decelerate the train.

In general magnetic brakes only trim speed and don't stop trains. A secondary set of equipment brings the vehicle to a complete stop which is usually a tire drive. The Intamin roller coasters use tire drives and add retractable steel fins to pull the fin away from the magnets (Xcelerator, Kingda Ka) or they pull the magnetic brakes away from the fins mounted on the sides of the trains (Superman Ride of Steel).

However, if you look at Xcelerator under normal operation the final brake run includes magnetic brakes that trim the speed, but after nearly all of the speed is trimmed tires ultimately stop the vehicle and advance it through the blocks to the loading station. I believe a failed launch where the train doesn't crest the Top Hat is the only scenario where the magnetic brakes mounted on the train are used to bring the vehicle to a complete stop. In that scenario the steel fins are retracted back into the track the train rolls back into the station and is stopped by tires.

Magnetic brakes can be installed in two ways- either the magnetic brakes installed on the track and steel fins on the vehicle or the opposite, magnetic brake installed on the vehicle and steel fins on the track.

The installation varies but most scenarios mount the magnetic brake on the track and steel fin (cheaper piece) on the vehicles because it's less expensive.

* This post was modified at 1/10/13 12:12:42 AM *

--
Eric
Ultimate Rollercoaster Moderator
Re: Designing a rotating track roller coaster by SirWillow SirWillow Profile at 1/11/13 8:46:42 AM
Thanks for the further clarifications on the magnetic brakes. Been to long since I've had the opportunity to ride one of those and as the brain gets older it gets fuzzy on remembering the details. :)

A system error occurred. We apologize for the inconvenience.

A system error occurred. We apologize for the inconvenience.