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Hades 360

CoasterFanatic CoasterFanatic Profile

Posted:
11/13/12 at
5:45:32 PM

Looks like they are replacing the high turn around with a corkscrew and a new or new trains, The Video shows Timberliner but I don't know about that.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=481794388507361

Charles Nungester 323 coasters and holding for two years now LOL Last coaster ride. HWN 2011
Re: Hades 360 by drachen drachen Profile at 11/13/12 6:19:06 PM

Looks like a lot of fun. The one part of the ride I didn't like was the hill that is being replaced. It may turn out to be a better ride with the changes.

drachen
Coaster to Park Ratio: 4.90 / Steel to Wooden Ratio: 2.55 / Wooden Coaster Percentage: 28.2%
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Re: Hades 360 by alpengeistno3 at 11/13/12 7:52:36 PM
I was going to post this in the "New for 2013" thread in reply to Chris' response, but it seems to fit better here since it specifically about Hades. It's not often that a park can "sneak" an announcement like this past the "coaster papparazzi" of today. Quite a bombshell: not only that they are modifying a currently operating wooden coaster with an inversion, but it is Gravity Group that is doing it. Not Rocky Mountain!!

Wasn't it part of Gravity Group's initial plug for those Timberliners that the wheel assemblies could perform inversions? I seem to remember that, along with the other "ridiculous" claims (maybe a launched wooden coaster is not as far off as we thought).

It is either ironic or coincidence that all of these looping wooden-style coasters are coming the year that KI FINALLY decides to tear down SOB. It seems this has caught even more fire here in the US than the B&M Wing Riders. It remains to be seen how they will be received, but I wonder, if successful, could this really be the end of the traditional wooden coaster? How can CGA drum up any kind of national attention for Gold Striker with Outlaw Run, Iron Rattler, and new Hades 360 stealing their thunder?

Paul

Re: Hades 360 by drachen drachen Profile at 11/13/12 8:26:30 PM
alpengeistno3 said:

Wasn't it part of Gravity Group's initial plug for those Timberliners that the wheel assemblies could perform inversions? I seem to remember that, along with the other "ridiculous" claims (maybe a launched wooden coaster is not as far off as we thought).

Yes, it was. I didn't know they were ready to pull it off. Time will tell if they really did. These low stress, in-line twists seem to be the way to go, as opposed to the large loops. Less speed/force needed to pull it off.

alpengeistno3 said:

How can CGA drum up any kind of national attention for Gold Striker with Outlaw Run, Iron Rattler, and new Hades 360 stealing their thunder?

Easy, it's in a completely different market. The GP has no idea the other rides even exist.

I won't look at this as the end of the traditional wooden roller coaster. These rides have A LOT to prove.

If successful, I will look at this as the beginning of a wooden coaster renaissance - the rebirth of a style that I particularly enjoy a lot. More on that later...

drachen
Coaster to Park Ratio: 4.90 / Steel to Wooden Ratio: 2.55 / Wooden Coaster Percentage: 28.2%
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Re: Hades 360 by frontrow frontrow Profile at 11/13/12 9:48:55 PM
Most of you know I love Hades. I have El Toro, Hades, and The Voyage on a tier of the own when it comes to wooden coasters. With that said, in my perfect world, Hades would be left alone, and a whole new coaster would be built at Mount Olympus. Back to reality, I start off with the the negatives.

Hades runs extremely aggressive as of now. The Timberline trains have yet to run on such an aggressive coaster. Look at the troubles with The Voyage. Hades runs much like The Voyage in terms of keeping a high speed throughout the entire ride. Now they are going to try inversions with these trains. Wooden giants like Hades and the Voyage need a lot of track work done periodically. They tear through the track so aggressively that they can get rough if not taken care of. Can you imagine an inversion, constructed in wooden track fashion, getting rough in few years. Mount Olympus will have to take special care of this coaster to ensure that inversion never becomes rough. One of my favorite parts of Hades is floating air time right before you return back into the tunnel. One of the best floaters on a wooden coaster, and comparable to a B&M hypercoaster floater. I hope this air time hill will still provide that same type air time with the new layout.

Now for the positives. If someone is going to pull this off, Gravity Group is the best company to do so. I'm all for coaster innovation, as long as the coaster remains smooth. Gravity Group is probably the best at wooden coaster innovation. They found a way to make wooden coasters tall, fast, steep, and super smooth at the same time. Other companies, other than Intamin could not make these wooden giants smooth. Look at coasters like Meanstreak, Rattler, Hercules, Son Of Beast, The Boss. All these coasters got really rough, really fast. Gravity Group also made it possible for coasters to go 90 degrees. Gravity Group was the best choice for this project. Another positive is that the best of Hades current ride is still going to exist, which is the underground tunnel. With this new layout, I'm assuming the rest of track will receive some work to ensure a smooth ride. In 2011, the very last part of the ride was getting a little jerky. Hopefully they will address that and provide a smooth ride from start to finish. These new Timberlines will be running faster than the current trains, which will make the whole ride even better, if its smooth. All in all, I really excited and have a high level of curiosity. Hades 360 has jumped to #1 on my priority list. I have to get out there next summer and ride this coaster. I really hope every thing works out and the ride experience is better than it was. Hades 360 could be my new favorite wooden coaster, or ruin what was my second favorite wooden coaster. I'll have to ride it in order to see which happens.

* This post was modified at 11/13/12 10:00:47 PM *

Re: Hades 360 by drachen drachen Profile at 11/14/12 10:05:49 AM
frontrow said:

Most of you know I love Hades. I have El Toro, Hades, and The Voyage on a tier of the own when it comes to wooden coasters. With that said, in my perfect world, Hades would be left alone, and a whole new coaster would be built at Mount Olympus.

I was curious to hear what you thought of the news, knowing that Hades is/was one of your favorite coasters.

frontrow said:

Hades runs extremely aggressive as of now. The Timberline trains have yet to run on such an aggressive coaster... Can you imagine an inversion, constructed in wooden track fashion, getting rough in few years? Mount Olympus will have to take special care of this coaster to ensure that inversion never becomes rough.

This is the question on my mind too. Mount Olympus isn't really known for having the best-maintained wooden coasters. What happens to Hades 360 if it falls into "disrepair" again?

frontrow said:

One of my favorite parts of Hades is floating air time right before you return back into the tunnel. One of the best floaters on a wooden coaster, and comparable to a B&M hypercoaster floater. I hope this air time hill will still provide that same type air time with the new layout.

It looks as if that hill will still be there after the re-model. If you watch the video, you see a hill right after the overbanked turn, and just before the return through the tunnel.

frontrow said:

I really hope every thing works out and the ride experience is better than it was. Hades 360 could be my new favorite wooden coaster, or ruin what was my second favorite wooden coaster. I'll have to ride it in order to see which happens.

This is where I am too. I'm hopeful that this will be a great attraction. It very well could end up being one of the best experiences out there. But there is a chance that this could be the undoing of an already great ride.

drachen
Coaster to Park Ratio: 4.90 / Steel to Wooden Ratio: 2.55 / Wooden Coaster Percentage: 28.2%
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Re: Hades 360 by mugen828 mugen828 Profile at 11/14/12 2:38:52 PM
I have Hades as my 7th rankes coaster out of 127. IT is my #2 wood, only behind El Toro, with Shivering Timbers at the #3 spot. I have never ridden voyage, so calm down if you think I'm crazy.


I am saddened by the news of this announcement, as I know Hades to be a rough and....really the perfect word is, "hectic" coaster experience. I feel like changing the trains might make this beast a bit too tame. I love the idea of an inversion, but like someone else said, I would have loved to see this on a brand new coaster at Mt. Olympus, and have a new addition to an already great line up.

I understand that these economic times call for innovation in cheaper ways, so the park management may being doing what they can with the money they have though. I look forward to riding it again with the inversion but I hope it's still a very hectic ride.

- mugen828
157 Coasters -- Favorite Coaster -- Nitro (SFGAdv)
117 Steel -- 40 Wood -- Home Park: SFGADv
Re: Hades 360 by alpengeistno3 at 11/14/12 6:05:53 PM
alpengeistno3 said:

How can CGA drum up any kind of national attention for Gold Striker with Outlaw Run, Iron Rattler, and new Hades 360 stealing their thunder?

drachen said:

Easy, it's in a completely different market. The GP has no idea the other rides even exist.

I won't look at this as the end of the traditional wooden roller coaster. These rides have A LOT to prove.

If successful, I will look at this as the beginning of a wooden coaster renaissance - the rebirth of a style that I particularly enjoy a lot. More on that later...

I guess I didn't state that correctly. How does GCI continue to build traditional wooden coaster designs if these new inversion woodies take off? For example, Park A has two (or four, hint, hint for those of you who know which park I consider my home park :) wooden coasters. They decide to build another. Do you call GCI and ask for a wooden twister with limited marketing potential or call GG or Rocky Mountain and be "the first" in your market to have woodie with inversions?

You're right, Drachen. There is still a lot to prove, especially from GG. But if these coasters do prove to be the crowd pleasers that TNTG is, then GCI and the traditional wooden coaster layout could be in trouble as this is just the type of gimmick that could be on every parks' must-have list.

Paul

* This post was modified at 11/14/12 11:19:51 PM *

Re: Hades 360 by Franchise at 11/14/12 8:04:26 PM
I find it really intriguing that the Gravity Group is willing to design an inversion into one of their coasters. At the same time it's perplexing to see people apprehensive as to whether or not this will be successful.

If it has wheels and momentum, a train can maneuver whatever type of contortion you put into the track regardless of the material used in the structure. As for as the inversion being rough, keep in mind the roughest parts of any coaster are the highest speed/highest g-force areas. When a train traverses an inversion at the apex there's not much force exerted on the track and the train is traveling at a relatively low speed. The inversion should actually be one of the smoothest and lowest maintenance areas of the ride.

What we should be concerned with is whether or not the entire ride will be re tracked because as we know already that you can't simply put a new train on a busted track and have everything work itself out.

* This post was modified at 11/15/12 12:06:29 AM *

Re: Hades 360 by frontrow frontrow Profile at 11/14/12 10:09:37 PM
GCI wooden twisters will still be built, even with these New innovations by Gravity Group and Rocky Mountain. As an enthusiast, I love GCI wooden twisters. Gold Striker is as very appealing to me, probably just as appealing as Outlaw Run. Parks will build these GCI twisters because of their lower coast and small footprint. My only complaint about GCI twisters is their short length. I may be mistaken, but all the US models are less than 3,500 long. I believe Gwazi has the longest track at 3,500 feet. These are the type of coasters that put small parks on the map. Kentucky Rumbler and Thunderhead are prime examples. Some parks cannot afford a giant wooden coaster by Gravity Group, or may not have the space for one, although Gravity Group is producing a smaller model like Wooden Warrior. This is why Funspot went to GCI. I do look for GCI step up and incorporate some new features in their future coaster. GCI has been doing a good job with this already. Renegade's first S drop was the first of it's kind. Lighting Racer was the first dueling/ racing wooden coaster. Prowler was GCI's terrain coaster, and my favorite out of 9 that I've ridden. Other than the early GCI coasters, these coasters are reliable and tend to stay pretty smooth. Parks looking to build a new wooden coaster now have some options. These Gravity Group giants are more marketable, but so is a GCI wooden twister. I think the major theme parks like Six Flags and Cedar Fair will go with Gravity Group or Rocky Mountain, but the smaller to midsize parks will be more interested in GCI. I think the only reason Silver Dollar City didn't go with GCI is because of the defunct Ozark Wildcat standing on a few miles away. All in all, these innovations by Gravity Group and Rocky Mountain will benefit GCI. This is going to bring more interest in the wooden coaster. Competition is good for the companies, the parks, and enthusiasts. I have a feeling wooden coaster installations will increase, and all 3 companies will be building them.

* This post was modified at 11/14/12 10:51:38 PM *

Re: Hades 360 by CoasterFanatic CoasterFanatic Profile at 11/15/12 4:56:21 PM
What most don't get about this announcement that none of the other coaster company's can do.

Hades will be all wood track with the metal rails. The Two inch topper track is VERY EXPENSIVE and the overall cost of the RMC is quite high.

TGG can build coasters much longer for less, as less friction between steel on steel than the urethane wheels on steel. Outlaw Run is barely 3000ft whereas Hades is 4600 and Voyage is longer than that. Both have some to do with the use of terrain but the friction factor is much more (As in slowing it down on the Urethane. Also If steel coasters are any indication. The Urethane wheels run anywhere from 400-1800 dollars each and wear a lot more when its hot outside..

Another thing TGG can do that the others can't. Make very tight turns and stuff as the wheels steer to make slower areas very exciting. Not saying they each won't have their nitch.

One other thing, They can turn all the cars backward, have them face each other. Launch them :)

Now you don't need a 20+ million budget ride to be exciting or inverting as most steels are.

I said as early as 2007, GET READY FOR A HUGE WOOD COMEBACK!

Charles Nungester 323 coasters and holding for two years now LOL Last coaster ride. HWN 2011
Re: Hades 360 by Rollercoaster_freak220 Rollercoaster_freak220 Profile at 11/15/12 5:44:41 PM
Outlaw Run will be using steel wheels, so a difference in friction isn't an issue in that regard, but all your other arguments hold true. This video shows off Outlaw Run's trains.

* This post was modified at 11/15/12 5:45:21 PM *

Re: Hades 360 by drachen drachen Profile at 11/15/12 5:58:05 PM
CoasterFanatic said:

What most don't get about this announcement that none of the other coaster company's can do.

Hades will be all wood track with the metal rails.

Correct - which is why I'm more interested to see how Gravity Group pulls this off.

CoasterFanatic said:

...but the friction factor is much more (As in slowing it down on the Urethane. Also If steel coasters are any indication. The Urethane wheels run anywhere from 400-1800 dollars each and wear a lot more when its hot outside..

I agree here too, but Outlaw Run's trains are not like Texas Giant's. Rocky Mountain's trains DO run with metal wheels, to preserve the wooden coaster feel. I'm very happy to hear that - and I'm sure maintenance costs were also a factor.

CoasterFanatic said:

Now you don't need a 20+ million budget ride to be exciting or inverting as most steels are.

I said as early as 2007, GET READY FOR A HUGE WOOD COMEBACK!

According to RCDB, Outlaw Run costs $10 million. You're right, it is a shorter ride, and technically is Rocky Mountain's "first" coaster. So SDC isn't getting so much bang for their buck with this coaster.

Now that Gravity Group can also do inversions, competition will make Rocky Mountain drop their price.

But I agree. I think we'll see this type of ride at most large parks over the next few years. Wooden coasters are certainly back.

drachen
Coaster to Park Ratio: 4.90 / Steel to Wooden Ratio: 2.55 / Wooden Coaster Percentage: 28.2%
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Re: Hades 360 by CoasterFanatic CoasterFanatic Profile at 11/15/12 6:07:33 PM
Outlaw runs strains have Urethane wheels and having 6000ft of solid steel track is a huge factor in its price. Remember Voyage is twice as long, Has four big rebar reinforced concrete tunnels and still under 10 million. Of course I doubt it now with a price adjustment for today. :)

Chuck

Charles Nungester 323 coasters and holding for two years now LOL Last coaster ride. HWN 2011
Re: Hades 360 by CoasterFanatic CoasterFanatic Profile at 11/15/12 6:33:07 PM
Rollercoaster_freak220 said:

Outlaw Run will be using steel wheels, so a difference in friction isn't an issue in that regard, but all your other arguments hold true. This video shows off Outlaw Run's trains.


Whats funny about this vid is Shike was part of S&S when Powder keg was built.

Charles Nungester 323 coasters and holding for two years now LOL Last coaster ride. HWN 2011
Re: Hades 360 by Rollercoaster_freak220 Rollercoaster_freak220 Profile at 11/15/12 7:08:17 PM
Chuck, do you have some different definition of what urethane is than I do? Because I'm pretty sure the wheels used on Outlaw Run are not urethane wheels masquerading as steel wheels. They are steel. Just like the wheels used on GG's Timberliners, and nearly every other wooden coaster.
Re: Hades 360 by CoasterFanatic CoasterFanatic Profile at 11/16/12 6:23:23 AM
Rollercoaster_freak220 said:

Chuck, do you have some different definition of what urethane is than I do? Because I'm pretty sure the wheels used on Outlaw Run are not urethane wheels masquerading as steel wheels. They are steel. Just like the wheels used on GG's Timberliners, and nearly every other wooden coaster.

From the few pictures I've seen of the Outlaw Run Train it apeared the wheel had a urethane tire on it. Im probably wrong, If so, Thats a good thing.

I still think the twin ribbons of solid steel are going to be a huge detriment in the cost of RMC rides. It's also going to be a lot harder to replace wood under the track By all rights RMCs are steel coasters in either form. It will still be fun and RMC is going agressive like TGG.

:)

Charles Nungester 323 coasters and holding for two years now LOL Last coaster ride. HWN 2011
Re: Hades 360 by skc2000 at 11/17/12 6:25:06 PM
What i don,t like about hades is also about the other 3 woodies at Mount Olympus.All 4 woodies at mount olympus have only one train running.When i was at mount olympus i had to wait over an hour to ride hades because of the single train operation.
Generally it would be a good idea to have a 2nd train on all 4 woodies but at the very minimum at least have a 2nd train on hades.

Now as far as adding a loop to hades let,s just hope that the coaster does not meet the same fate as son of beast but my biggest complaint is this single train operation on all 4 woodies at mount olympus.

skc2000

Re: Hades 360 by frontrow frontrow Profile at 11/17/12 6:56:54 PM
skc2000 said:

What i don,t like about hades is also about the other 3 woodies at Mount Olympus.All 4 woodies at mount olympus have only one train running.When i was at mount olympus i had to wait over an hour to ride hades because of the single train operation.
Generally it would be a good idea to have a 2nd train on all 4 woodies but at the very minimum at least have a 2nd train on hades.

Now as far as adding a loop to hades let,s just hope that the coaster does not meet the same fate as son of beast but my biggest complaint is this single train operation on all 4 woodies at mount olympus.

skc2000

I was at Mount Olympus on a busy day also, but not quite as busy as the day you were there. In the morning it was dead, but a hoard of people came in at noon. I did grab 5 or 6 rides on Hades in the morning. I then went and rode all the other coasters. I got 3 rides on Cyclops. When I came back to Hades there was a 25-30 minute wait. I feel in love with the front seat so I waited the extra time for the front each time. I ended up with 10 rides on Hades that day. I was thinking the same thing about the single train operation. A ride op told me Hades had more that a hour wait the day before I was there. After looking at the brake run, I don't think it's possible to run 2 trains on Hades. The brake run is just too short, same goes for Zeus. These coasters seem like they were designed for single train operations.

Re: Hades 360 by CoasterFanatic CoasterFanatic Profile at 11/17/12 10:27:01 PM
frontrow said:

skc2000 said:

What i don,t like about hades is also about the other 3 woodies at Mount Olympus.All 4 woodies at mount olympus have only one train running.When i was at mount olympus i had to wait over an hour to ride hades because of the single train operation.
Generally it would be a good idea to have a 2nd train on all 4 woodies but at the very minimum at least have a 2nd train on hades.

Now as far as adding a loop to hades let,s just hope that the coaster does not meet the same fate as son of beast but my biggest complaint is this single train operation on all 4 woodies at mount olympus.

skc2000

I was at Mount Olympus on a busy day also, but not quite as busy as the day you were there. In the morning it was dead, but a hoard of people came in at noon. I did grab 5 or 6 rides on Hades in the morning. I then went and rode all the other coasters. I got 3 rides on Cyclops. When I came back to Hades there was a 25-30 minute wait. I feel in love with the front seat so I waited the extra time for the front each time. I ended up with 10 rides on Hades that day. I was thinking the same thing about the single train operation. A ride op told me Hades had more that a hour wait the day before I was there. After looking at the brake run, I don't think it's possible to run 2 trains on Hades. The brake run is just too short, same goes for Zeus. These coasters seem like they were designed for single train operations.

My only visit there about 5pm the mechanics had to go and do brake adjustments on the brake run of Hades (The upper one) There may be some Merit to this claim although Im sure some type of trim could be used prior to that approach
to reduce the wear on those brakes.

Charles Nungester 323 coasters and holding for two years now LOL Last coaster ride. HWN 2011