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Ultimate Rollercoaster > Discussion Forums > Roller Coasters, Parks & Attractions > Is Behemoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers?

Is Behemoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers?

Tomes

Posted:
9/12/12 at
10:54:09 AM

The only 3 B&M Hypers I've ridden are Appollo's Chariot, Raging Bull and Nitro. I keep hearing that Behemoth has insane out-of-seat airtime over the hills. Is that right? Can anyone who has ridden Nitro, Raging Bull and Appollo's Chariot attest that Behemoth is in fact so much better?

I know we have discussed this previously, and some poeople mentioned that Goliath in SFoG was an exceptionally good 'beemer' and that Behemoth was excellent. But just from the pictures it looks like the hills on Behemoth are really high which means that the train slows down substantially at the top and doesn't provide such great airtime... But pictures can be deceiving. I know El Toro's 2nd and 3rd hills look high but the airtime on them is actually probably among the top 2-3 out-of-seat airtime I've ever experienced on any roller coaster (including Millennium Force and Intimidator 305).

Is this actually the case with Behemoth? Is it a class apart from other B&M Hypers? Also, (while we're on the topic) how do Intimidator and Diamondback stack up against Appolo's Chariot, Raging Bull and Nitro?

* This post was modified at 9/22/12 10:34:46 PM *

Re: Is Mammoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by beastmaster beastmaster Profile at 9/12/12 11:09:37 AM
Mammoth..an extinct elephant-like creature

Mammoth..a water coaster at Holiday World

Mammoth..a popular tourist cave in Kentucky

Mammoth...B&M Hyper? Syntax error..does not compute.

Perhaps you meant Leviathan? Or Behemoth? I'm certainly not familiar with a B&M Hyper called Mammoth..in North America, anyways.

Mike

* This post was modified at 9/12/12 11:27:58 AM *

The amusement park rises bold and stark
Kids are huddled on the beach in a mist...
Re: Is Mammoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by KevinReid KevinReid Profile at 9/12/12 11:14:53 AM
What and Where is Mammoth?
Re: Is Mammoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by beastmaster beastmaster Profile at 9/12/12 11:27:26 AM
To answer the last query, I'm not sure I could name all B&M hypers, or even all that I've been on. But of the ones I can think of off the top of my now 48-year-old head, I'd rank them thusly. Remember though, I don't really get into why I like one ride better than another..it's just the feel, the vibe I get:

1 Nitro
2 Intimidator
3 Diamondback
4 Apollo's Chariot
5 SFOG Goliath
6 Behemoth
7 Raging Bull

I THINK those are all the ones I've been on...if anyone here knows something I missed, let me know, please.

Nitro is the only one that delivers a complete ride, with excellent pacing start to finish. All of the others, while having assets, run out of gas around 2/3 of the way through or so.

Mike

The amusement park rises bold and stark
Kids are huddled on the beach in a mist...
Re: Is Mammoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by MABrider MABrider Profile at 9/12/12 12:50:10 PM
beastmaster said:

Nitro is the only one that delivers a complete ride, with excellent pacing start to finish. All of the others, while having assets, run out of gas around 2/3 of the way through or so.

Mike

The "only" one? To each his own, sounds a bit severe to me, tho.

Anyway, get thee to SFoG and ride Goliath.
It delivers right "into" the whoop-de-doo left-turn-onto-the-brake-run.
IMO
YMMV
AATBS ;-)

Mike B.

Mike B.
Re: Is Mammoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by beastmaster beastmaster Profile at 9/12/12 1:01:41 PM
MABrider said:

beastmaster said:

Nitro is the only one that delivers a complete ride, with excellent pacing start to finish. All of the others, while having assets, run out of gas around 2/3 of the way through or so.

Mike

The "only" one? To each his own, sounds a bit severe to me, tho.

Anyway, get thee to SFoG and ride Goliath.
It delivers right "into" the whoop-de-doo left-turn-onto-the-brake-run.
IMO
YMMV
AATBS ;-)

Mike B.

As noted above, I rode Goliath OG in 2008. Don't remember it as anything special, although I wasn't feeling well that day..so that could be considered extenuating circumstances. And yeah, only was probably a bad choice of word.

Please enlighten me on AATBS, Mike.

The Other Mike

The amusement park rises bold and stark
Kids are huddled on the beach in a mist...
Re: Is Mammoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by Tomes at 9/12/12 1:58:21 PM
Jesus, I'm idiot!!
I totally meant Behemoth!!! Hahahaha. I don't know why I kept calling it Mammoth.. Wow. Total brain fart.

Now that we all know that I'm officially an idiot, we can restart the topic.

Sorry everybody!
Tomes

So is Behemoth THAT much better? Doesn't sound like it from the list above..

* This post was modified at 9/12/12 2:00:31 PM *

Re: Is Mammoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by beastmaster beastmaster Profile at 9/12/12 2:27:42 PM
Tomes said:

Jesus, I'm idiot!!

Now that we all know that I'm officially an idiot

Tomes

Welcome to the club. Dues are payable on the 15th of every month.

Hey, being idiots worked for the Red Sox and the staff of MAD Magazine, so why not? :)

The amusement park rises bold and stark
Kids are huddled on the beach in a mist...
Re: Is Mammoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by mugen828 mugen828 Profile at 9/12/12 3:00:08 PM
I figured you meant Behemoth. It looks awesome!


I would have to say this is my current list (of the ones I have ridden)

1. Nitro - Sentimental/biased opinion
2. Appolo's Chariot
3. Raging Bull
4. Intimidator


I am going to ride Goliath at SFOG soon though! so I will add that to my list later.


I want to ride all of them as they are my favorite type of coaster (hands down), but I am most excited to ride one day, Behemoth, Leviathan, and Shambhala.

- mugen828
157 Coasters -- Favorite Coaster -- Nitro (SFGAdv)
117 Steel -- 40 Wood -- Home Park: SFGADv
Re: Is Mammoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by beastmaster beastmaster Profile at 9/12/12 3:12:50 PM
mugen828 said:


they are my favorite type of coaster (hands down.)

No. Hands *UP*.

The amusement park rises bold and stark
Kids are huddled on the beach in a mist...
Re: Is Mammoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by theRock-steel theRock-steel Profile at 9/12/12 8:08:48 PM
Having just been to Canada's Wonderland last month, I don't feel that Behemoth is even the best B&M in the park. If that's the case, it might be hard to convince me that it's the best hyper. Before I give you my list I should tell you that B&M hypers are the bumb. I would like to say that my top three are tied with each other, but I can't do that. Anyway here goes:
1. Apollo's Chariot
2. Goliath (Six Flags Over Georgia)
3. Intimidator (His car was #3 so that is where this belongs)
4. Leviathan (I know it's a giga, but it fits here)
5. Behemoth
6. Diamondback
7. Raging Bull
8. Nitro
Re: Is Mammoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by Tomes at 9/13/12 12:38:39 AM
So noteably out of 2 people who gave their list, one had Nitro at the top and the other at the bottom. Lol.

I love B&M hypers don't get me wrong, but I think they're more impressive looking than feeling. The first hill is usually awesome with a good drop but then the subsequent hills are so tall that the coaster loses all of its momentum. I wish they, just once, build intamin-style hills with out-of-seat airtime. Or even just incorporate a few hills like that into the mix. I feel like Leviathan has that so I'm very curious to ride it and compare to MF, I305 and B&M hypers.

PS I can't believe you put Leviathan after Apollo's Chariot! lol. I think Apollo's is OK but it's not in my top 20 steel coasters.

Re: Is Mammoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by chitlins73 chitlins73 Profile at 9/13/12 6:41:39 AM
Leviathan was just a taller and faster version of all the other B&M hypers.It had the same feel as being on Nitro or Apollo's Chariot.Not many forces like an Intamin ride has.I am so surprised they added that coaster at Canada's Wonderland.Now they have two coasters that are almost identical,lol.
Re: Is Mammoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by Overbanked Overbanked Profile at 9/13/12 11:50:10 AM
The first thing that I thought of was Mammoth, that waterslide at Holiday World, a Beemer vs a waterslide comparison? LOL. Hey Tomes, remember you have the power to edit the thread topic. I had to do that for one of my TR's (Beech Bend) that I accidentally put the wrong date on.

* This post was modified at 9/14/12 2:41:09 AM *

Re: Is Mammoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by MABrider MABrider Profile at 9/13/12 12:59:36 PM
beastmaster said:

MABrider said:

beastmaster said:

Nitro is the only one that delivers a complete ride, with excellent pacing start to finish. All of the others, while having assets, run out of gas around 2/3 of the way through or so.

Mike

The "only" one? To each his own, sounds a bit severe to me, tho.

Anyway, get thee to SFoG and ride Goliath.
It delivers right "into" the whoop-de-doo left-turn-onto-the-brake-run.
IMO
YMMV
AATBS ;-)

Mike B.

As noted above, I rode Goliath OG in 2008. Don't remember it as anything special, although I wasn't feeling well that day..so that could be considered extenuating circumstances. And yeah, only was probably a bad choice of word.

Please enlighten me on AATBS, Mike.

The Other Mike

I missed SFoG Goliath in your list.
So just another idiot, c'est moi.

AATBS?
Shorthand acronyms used everywhere these days get to me once in a while, and was thinking of addding "Yada yada yada" to complete my thought but instead I made one up.
I don't expect it to catch on.

"And All That B.S." is what I meant it to mean.
Winky optional.


As for the B&M hyper (giga) discussion, I am looking forward to CW on Saturday. I expect the two non-loopers that CW has will impress me like B&Ms always do.

Mike B.

Mike B.
Re: Is Mammoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by Absimilliard Absimilliard Profile at 9/13/12 1:02:05 PM
I had the chance to ride most of the B&M hypers around the world. Only missing Shambahla in Spain and Leviathan (riding it saturday). My ranking goes like this:

1- Goliath SFOG. Just an amazing layout filled with forces that are more powerful than the recent B&M efforts. Plus, you got that amazing setting.

2- Nitro SFGADV. The coaster that made me fell in love with B&M coasters back in 2002. Amazing airtime and that intense helix! Also, a people eater.

3- Goliath La Ronde. It is at my home park, but still a simple, efficient airtime machine. Awesome view on the first drop when it look like you will drop into the water of the river.

4- Behemoth: The lack of a good ending kills what is an amazing start for me. Two tame helix and one airtime hill and that's it?

5- Hollywood Dream: The Ride at Universal Studios Japan. The ride is the smallest of the bunch and is really tame. Why do I like it so much? Its location! Picture this: imagine that you're at USF and the current Terminator 2 theater is the entrance and stations for a B&M hyper. The lift hill run behind the facades and drops down 150 feet. You then turn and do an airtime hill OVER the park entrance. You do an overbanked turnaround where Hard Rock Cafe is and then do another hill back over the entrance. More hills behind the facades and then you ride into the block brake. You drop down into a nice upward helix over the lake and then go through a tunnel and get a pop of air and you're back at the station. Capacity is insane, since it runs 4 trains using Disney style dual loading stations.

6- Raging Bull: An amazing first drop save what would be an overbraked, but fun hypertwister.

7- Diamondback: an overbraked and shaky mess of a ride. Great layout, but it just doesn't work.

8- Apollo's Chariot: Ok Busch, I know you had to trim Alpengeist to death due to being too intense, but was it too much to make Apollo's Chariot something more than a 200 feet tall family coaster?

9- Silver Star at Europa Park: Again, a family park wanted an hyper coaster and completely messed it up. Layout is kinda similar to Nitro, but without the ending airtime hills, intense helix and to make sure you get no airtime, magnetic brakes on every airtime hill.

Re: Is Mammoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by beastmaster beastmaster Profile at 9/13/12 2:21:34 PM
Absimilliard, any thoughts on Intimidator Carowinds? It wasn't mentioned as one of the ones you're missing..but you also didn't mention it in your comments on the ones you DID ride.
The amusement park rises bold and stark
Kids are huddled on the beach in a mist...
Re: Is Mammoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by MABrider MABrider Profile at 9/13/12 6:58:50 PM
Absimilliard said:
and Leviathan (riding it saturday).

I'll be there, for the ACE event.
Is that why you are going?
If so, look for an old(er), white haired guy with Massachusetts on his name tag. No one from my "close circle" of enthusiast friends is attending, and it will be my first visit to CW.

Mike B. (who hits the big 6-OH (my God!) one week from today)

Mike B.
Re: Is Mammoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by GoYanks34 GoYanks34 Profile at 9/13/12 8:49:19 PM
MABrider said:

Absimilliard said:
and Leviathan (riding it saturday).

I'll be there, for the ACE event.
Is that why you are going?
If so, look for an old(er), white haired guy with Massachusetts on his name tag. No one from my "close circle" of enthusiast friends is attending, and it will be my first visit to CW.

Mike B. (who hits the big 6-OH (my God!) one week from today)

Happy early B-day Mike! Hope you have a blast at CW!

Jen

Re: Is Mammoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by beastmaster beastmaster Profile at 9/13/12 8:59:24 PM
Two Mikes on the board have birthdays within 10 days of each other. Cool! Have a blast in the Great White North! Ride Leviathan for me, because I don't expect to get there again anytime soon. Heck, it took me 40 years to make my SECOND journey north of the border in '10!

Mike G.

The amusement park rises bold and stark
Kids are huddled on the beach in a mist...
Re: Is Mammoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by Absimilliard Absimilliard Profile at 9/14/12 1:13:29 AM
Yeah, I did ride it... It would probably rank somewhere around Diamondback sadly. Great first drop and love that second S drop. Sadly, its overbraked after and the ending is pathetic!

Yes, I will be there saturday and I'll be one of the assistant Rep helping out. Look for a tall guy with a white Monstre or black Thrill Mountain t shirt. I'm Marc.

Re: Is Mammoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by Overbanked Overbanked Profile at 9/14/12 2:55:49 AM
It's funny to see the very differing and contrasting Beemer hyper rankings between URCers. So I've came to the conclusion that they all are basically the same coaster, but have dramatic daily mood swings. :)

FWIW, here are my B&M hyper rankings.

Intimidator
Nitro
Goliath
Apollo's Chariot

Re: Is Mammoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by theRock-steel theRock-steel Profile at 9/14/12 7:04:53 AM
Tomes said:

So noteably out of 2 people who gave their list, one had Nitro at the top and the other at the bottom. Lol.


I love B&M hypers don't get me wrong, but I think they're more impressive looking than feeling. The first hill is usually awesome with a good drop but then the subsequent hills are so tall that the coaster loses all of its momentum. I wish they, just once, build intamin-style hills with out-of-seat airtime. Or even just incorporate a few hills like that into the mix. I feel like Leviathan has that so I'm very curious to ride it and compare to MF, I305 and B&M hypers.

PS I can't believe you put Leviathan after Apollo's Chariot! lol. I think Apollo's is OK but it's not in my top 20 steel coasters.

I got bored with Nitro. Diamondback was a little rough for a B&M. I was much more impressed with Raging Bull than I thought that I would be. It didn't have the airtime, but a different layout with tall turnarounds and some small hops and twists was a welcome change.

I don't feel that the two B&M's at CW are that much a like. Leviathan has a couple big hills like MF and some of the smaller turns like 305. While it doesn't have the speed or forces of either Intamin, its length and layout makes it similar to a marriage of the two. I ranked it one below MF but haven't ridden 305 yet.

Apollo's Chariot is my favorite coaster because I love the Busch/SeaWorld parks so much. I have not ridden it since '07 so my memory is a little off. After a trip there next year, I would expect AC to drop down 3 spots and end up in the middle of the gigas.

Re: Is Behemoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by Tomes at 9/14/12 11:48:17 AM
I finally edited the title to say Behemoth instead of Mammoth.. In retrospect,maybe the wrong name drew more attention to the thread ;-)

As to my original question, it sounds like the answer is "NO". I haven't gotten even one "Yes, Behemoth is amazing and all the other ones pale in comparison".

Re: Is Behemoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by MABrider MABrider Profile at 9/14/12 12:14:12 PM
Tomes said:

As to my original question, it sounds like the answer is "NO". I haven't gotten even one "Yes, Behemoth is amazing and all the other ones pale in comparison".

That's more an indication that the B&M non-loopers are more consistent in the ride experiences they provide.
I like that consistency.

I personally don't think any one of them is "way better" than any other one, there are reasons to like them all (discounting any rough rolling stock...that's the park's fault).

I'm betting I will feel that way come end of day tomorrow, after my first ever visit to CW.

Now, will I like one of the CW B&Ms better than the other? Probably.
But I would never not ride either, that I already know!

Mike B.

Mike B.
Re: Is Behemoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by frontrow frontrow Profile at 9/14/12 12:27:34 PM
This is a topic that has been discussed here before. It seems everyone has a different ranking of the B&M hypers. Behemoth is my favorite out of the 7 that I've ridden. I have not ridden Leviathan. I think why this topic is so popular is because we are taking about a group of fantastic coasters that have the most comfortable restraints, large air time hills, and a super smooth ride. All 7, Behemoth, Goliath (SFOG), Nitro, Intimadator, Apollos Chariot, Raging Bull, and Diamondback make my top 20. The first 5 I mentioned make my top 10. The best thing to do is ride as many as these fantastic coasters as possible, then make your own assessment. I have yet to see 2 identical rankings of the B&M hypers.
Re: Is Behemoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by chitlins73 chitlins73 Profile at 9/14/12 10:47:42 PM
Hey Ken....after visiting CW again this summer,Behemoth dropped many spots.The first year it was great but on this last trip it got a bit rough and just seemed really lame compared to Leviathan.That is why it was kinda dumb to add Leviathan when they had Behemoth.Now it just seems like Behemoth is a kiddie coaster compared to the big boy they have now.That second half of Behemoth is just slow!! And I was a huge Behemoth fan the first go around.
Re: Is Behemoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by Cyclone_Phil Cyclone_Phil Profile at 9/14/12 11:10:57 PM
lol, wouldn't it be funny if CF were to relocate Behemoth and send it down to KD? I'd gladly take that and the loss of both Hurler and Anaconda or Grizzly (dunno what the layout is like).
Re: Is Behemoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by theRock-steel theRock-steel Profile at 9/17/12 8:33:10 AM
^ Behemoth is going to be Knotts Berry Farm's new big ride. (LOL) Anyway, Anaconda and Grizzly should stay at Kings Dominion.
Re: Is Behemoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by Cyclone_Phil Cyclone_Phil Profile at 9/17/12 2:00:21 PM
lol, maybe... Nah, Anaconda's time is over, they need to close it down. Had Anaconda been more like GASM or those 7 inversion coasters, then I'd love Anaconda more. After the mcbr, the ride becomes a train wreck and barely ridable. I don't think Grizzly would need to be torn down, depending on if they can expand past the park's boundaries. Hurler definitely has to go.*

*just to clarify, this is only my wish on IF Behemoth was to be moved and how I think KD would be a good fit with it. Not saying CW would actually move the coaster.

* This post was modified at 9/17/12 2:11:08 PM *

Re: Is Behemoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by MABrider MABrider Profile at 9/18/12 1:00:51 PM
Channeling back to the original thread title question:

Not necessarily, but it's better than its younger, bigger brother.

IMO
YMMV
AOLS*

Mike B.


* As Of Last Saturday

Mike B.
Re: Is Behemoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by theRock-steel theRock-steel Profile at 9/18/12 11:20:37 PM
Although there are some that don't offer enough to put up with the OTSR pain, I really don't want to see any of the classic Arrow loopers go unless they have to. Something should have been done to make Drachen Fire and Great American Scream Machine more ridable. This is why I would try to "fix" Anaconda rather than turn it into scrap medal. Bat, Big Bad Wolf, and XLR-8 are gone and I just found out that Eagle Fortress is listed as SBNO. Doesn't someone think that the suspendeds are worth trying to save? Hurler should go. I would start working on that yesterday.

So far Leviathan is one-of-a-kind. For now I would say that it is better than Behemoth and a couple of the other hypers.

* This post was modified at 9/18/12 11:24:01 PM *

Re: Is Behemoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by Tomes at 9/19/12 1:04:36 PM
I would agree that I certainly don't think CW was dumb by adding Leviathan. It's a one-of-a-kind at least for now and I only hear good things about it. Like I said before, they could have gone with an intamin giga to "differentiate" from Behemoth but why? The layout is totally different than behemoth. I mean, totally - it only has like 2 airtime hills, at least one of them is low-to-the-ground / out-of-your-seat kind of hill, some totally overbanked turns like on MF and it keeps its pace and doesn't slow down at the top of each hill like a B&M hyper. Even the train is totally different, it's 4-across like regular B&Ms whereas Behemoth is 2 'in the front' 2 'in the back' kind of. I think that besides the "shape of the track" (The B&M square with rails) there is nothing about Leviathan that's similar to Behemoth; it's like saying "Why did SFMM add Scream when they have the Riddler's revenge? Why did SFGAdv add Green lantern when there is Medusa? The train is different, the layout is different, the experience is different. Now, as to which one is better - that's obviously up to each person's opinion.

But one thing that I don't know is:
What's YMMV and AOLS? Anyone?

Re: Is Behemoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by beastmaster beastmaster Profile at 9/19/12 1:15:11 PM
Tomes said:

But one thing that I don't know is:
What's YMMV and AOLS? Anyone?

Even someone as internet-challenged as me can answer the first: Your Mileage May Vary..that is, everyone's experience is different.

As for AOLS, Mike B. identified that at the bottom of his post :)

The Other Mike

The amusement park rises bold and stark
Kids are huddled on the beach in a mist...
Re: Is Behemoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by MABrider MABrider Profile at 9/19/12 6:05:47 PM
^
Thanks, other Mike!
Mike B.
Re: Is Behemoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by Tomes at 9/21/12 2:18:53 PM
That's funny, because I'm far from internet-challenged... And yet I've never seen YMMV... Just about any other acronym though. lol.

About the AOLS - Yeah, I wasn't paying attention. Good call :-)

Re: Is Behemoth really that much better than other B&M Hypers? by chitlins73 chitlins73 Profile at 9/21/12 4:58:31 PM
That is the one thing I can't stand about this site.All the Acronyms we have to figure out drives me nuts,lol.