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CP Fast Lane is up

NotSo NotSo Profile

Posted:
4/4/12 at
6:31:01 PM

They finally put it on thier web site. Its only $50 a person and has 16 rides.

Its about time, this is great news. Even if it cuts the line down 1/2 the wait its worth it. I am surprised they didnt charge closer to $100.

Looking forward to a great summer with less wait time!

Re: CP Fast Lane is up by JetMech JetMech Profile at 4/4/12 6:57:32 PM
I'm intrigued to know what limited wait times actually is? I'm assuming it's going to mimic a SF's gold flash pass in wait times..
Re: CP Fast Lane is up by drachen drachen Profile at 4/4/12 7:56:39 PM
I've been pretty open about my dislike for such programs, but there are better ways to manage it.

The best way is to have limited number of passes available per day, and to have one specific row set aside for the program, somewhere in the middle of the train. I feel like the best seats should be reserved for those that waited in the line.

If there are no Fast Pass riders, than you fill the row with guests from a different queue.

Cedar Point is not the only park to add such a program this year. Kings Island has the same program and price structure, and I'm sure there are more Cedar Fair parks as well.

Hersheypark is adding one this year as well - 100 passes per day for $50. But Skyrush is excluded.

I plan to finally get to Kings Island this year. While there, I will likely purchase their fast pass to make sure that I can ride everything in one day.

It looks to me that the Cedar Fair parks and Hersheypark are doing this the right way, if there is such a thing...

drachen
Coaster to Park Ratio: 4.90 / Steel to Wooden Ratio: 2.55 / Wooden Coaster Percentage: 28.2%
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Re: CP Fast Lane is up by NotSo NotSo Profile at 4/4/12 8:46:39 PM
I dont think there will be fast lane "rows", i think the fst lane line will just merge with the main line at some point.
They did say there will be a limited number of passes per day, as to not annoy the average guest too much.
Re: CP Fast Lane is up by Eric_Gieszl Eric_Gieszl Profile at 4/5/12 12:05:09 AM
drachen said:

The best way is to have limited number of passes available per day, and to have one specific row set aside for the program, somewhere in the middle of the train. I feel like the best seats should be reserved for those that waited in the line.

No, you couldn't be more wrong. That is the WORST way to implement one of these programs.

First, all FastPass, FastLane, FlashPass, Universal Express programs have limited availability or else they don't work, so that is a mute point.

However, reserving a single row is the worst implementation. One, it doesn't allow those who use the system to select a row of their choice. Two, it kills capacity because frequently that row(s) go empty when no program participants are there to use it. Unless there is a grouper in the station closely monitoring the whole thing blocking a row does not work.

The best way to implement a line program is to have two separate entrances (regular and program entrance) to the attraction and to merge the two lines with an employee controlling this somewhere before the loading station. This is how Disney and Universal manage their programs. Disney's FastPass is the best, but Universal comes a close second for best implementation.

As far as I know and based on what I read somewhere a limited number of Fast Lane passes will be sold at Cedar Point. They have to impose a limit.

I really hope that Cedar Fair leads the way with implementing a modern, queue management system in the future like Disney's FastPass, but for now I welcome this addition.

Re: CP Fast Lane is up by RobLec RobLec Profile at 4/5/12 4:17:59 AM
Eric_Gieszl said:

As far as I know and based on what I read somewhere a limited number of Fast Lane passes will be sold at Cedar Point. They have to impose a limit.

That is correct. KI implemented the Fast Lane late last year and there is a limit to the number they sell each day, however I believe that on most weekdays they never reach that limit. Also the price per person decreases based on the number in your group purchasing passes (up to 6). They are wristbands that are only valid the day of purchase. CP's program will most likely be identical to KI's. From what I understand, management has been very pleased with the results of the program. It was particularly successful reducing wait times during the Halloween Haunt.

Re: CP Fast Lane is up by Great_Ump Great_Ump Profile at 4/5/12 4:19:07 AM
U have to agree with Eric.

That's how the SF Fast Pass (or whatever it is called) started out at SFA and it was a terrible idea.

Big time capacity killer and there always seems to be an argument between the park employee and another guest who wants to ride in "that" row but isn't educated enough to know why that row is roped off. This delays the dispatching and capacity as well.

Joe
Great_Ump

Re: CP Fast Lane is up by drachen drachen Profile at 4/5/12 10:44:45 AM
Eric_Gieszl said:

No, you couldn't be more wrong. That is the WORST way to implement one of these programs.

However, reserving a single row is the worst implementation. One, it doesn't allow those who use the system to select a row of their choice. Two, it kills capacity because frequently that row(s) go empty when no program participants are there to use it. Unless there is a grouper in the station closely monitoring the whole thing blocking a row does not work.

I disagree with being able to select the row of your choice if you skip the line. That's just not right in my opinion.

I've seen this work well at a few Six Flags operations. Maybe that wouldn't be the case at some other parks.

This type of system, I feel, has minimal impact on those waiting in the full line. They simply queue up for the rest of the train. And in the occasion that there are not fast pass riders, it always seems to be a bonus for those who get an earlier-than-expected ride.

But you're right, this type of system needs attentive and proactive ride operators, which is a harder thing to find these days.

Eric_Gieszl said:

The best way to implement a line program is to have two separate entrances (regular and program entrance) to the attraction and to merge the two lines with an employee controlling this somewhere before the loading station. This is how Disney and Universal manage their programs. Disney's FastPass is the best, but Universal comes a close second for best implementation.

I really hope that Cedar Fair leads the way with implementing a modern, queue management system in the future like Disney's FastPass, but for now I welcome this addition.

That type of line management is ok, and I understand that well-run parks use it. But the problem is that a lot of existing attractions at other parks are not set up for such a line, or even the real estate to add one.

All roller coasters currently have a way to access the station directly - the exit. Using the exit as your fast pass line eliminates the need to construct a new one. So, in that sense, reserving a row for fast pass users makes sense to the parks.

If you're a rider waiting in line, especially a long line, there are two things that will piss you off.

1) Waiting in line for the seat you want, especially if it's the front or the back row, and then being told that you have to wait one more train because these other guests paid extra to skip the line.

2) Waiting in a long line, only to find that a group of others paid to not do what you just did. They merge ahead of you before you get to the station.

Granted, situation #1 is worse than #2, but both frustrations are compounded if you know you simply can't afford to pay the extra money. You feel like a second class citizen.

If you get to the station, and row 4 is blocked off. You accept that much easier, I believe, and queue up for another row.

I feel that is the best way to minimize the number of unhappy guests.

drachen
Coaster to Park Ratio: 4.90 / Steel to Wooden Ratio: 2.55 / Wooden Coaster Percentage: 28.2%
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Re: CP Fast Lane is up by Eric_Gieszl Eric_Gieszl Profile at 4/5/12 11:51:40 AM
How is selecting any row unfair? You made the choice not to pay for the Fast Lane program. That's your choice, but the fact is these people have paid a premium and they should be given a better experience than you.

My problem with these programs is the half ass implementation. Disney and Universal spend the money to rebuild or reorganize their queues, so the programs have a minimal impact on the rest. They staff plenty of people to manage their FastPass and Express programs. Therefore, Six Flags and Cedar Fair should do the same. If a ride doesn't have a reconfigured queue then it shouldn't be included on the program.

Disneyland doesn't have FastPass for PeterPan because they haven't rebuilt the queue. Disney will rebuild the queue first then implement the program on a ride. They know that walking people up the exit is a bad idea and pre-loading a roller coaster train from the exit slows down operations, reduces capacity and makes the regular line longer. Exit ramps also aren't designed to queue up riders so when people are standing on the exit it impedes the flow of the exit traffic.

Blocking off rows never works well. I've never seen one instance of it working well and as a regular guest the inefficiency of it angers me very much.

Also, I should note that I've argued my way out of those reserved rows nearly every time I use FlashPass. If I'm going to pay $100 for a Platinum FlashPass I'm going to ride where I want to.

Re: CP Fast Lane is up by Eric_Gieszl Eric_Gieszl Profile at 4/5/12 12:03:24 PM
Great_Ump said:

Big time capacity killer and there always seems to be an argument between the park employee and another guest who wants to ride in "that" row but isn't educated enough to know why that row is roped off. This delays the dispatching and capacity as well.

Joe I got into an argument with an operator on Wild One at Six Flags America. I was visiting and I don't think there was a single person in the park using FlashPass because total attendance in the park was in the hundreds.

One operator, didn't care if you rode in the "reserved" rows, but this other jerk made a huge deal out of it, so I went to bat for another couple who were accosted by the operator for taking the empty row. I believe it was single train operation, but I know it was the only ride I took the entire day with a full train. The station rows were entirely empty. Not only did this jerk delay the dispatch he went on and on about how they couldn't ride in the reserved row and needed to get out of the train and back into the station.

What happened was that they were a group of four came into the station and boarded the two empty rows (reserved and one not reserved). They took them and this operator couldn't handle that. It was a complete teenage worker meltdown.

Re: CP Fast Lane is up by JetMech JetMech Profile at 4/5/12 12:03:43 PM
RobLec said:

Eric_Gieszl said:

As far as I know and based on what I read somewhere a limited number of Fast Lane passes will be sold at Cedar Point. They have to impose a limit.

That is correct. KI implemented the Fast Lane late last year and there is a limit to the number they sell each day, however I believe that on most weekdays they never reach that limit. Also the price per person decreases based on the number in your group purchasing passes (up to 6). They are wristbands that are only valid the day of purchase. CP's program will most likely be identical to KI's. From what I understand, management has been very pleased with the results of the program. It was particularly successful reducing wait times during the Halloween Haunt.

Do you recall what the wait times were using the fast lane?

Re: CP Fast Lane is up by RobLec RobLec Profile at 4/5/12 12:31:44 PM
JetMech said:
Do you recall what the wait times were using the fast lane?

I've never used CF's Fast Lane pass, but I heard someone say during the Haunt that Fast Lane wait times for attractions were 30 minutes as opposed to the typical two hour wait. I'm guessing that would translate to typical wait time being about one fourth of the standby line (e.g, 15 minutes vs one hour).

Re: CP Fast Lane is up by drachen drachen Profile at 4/5/12 1:27:57 PM
Eric_Gieszl said:

How is selecting any row unfair? You made the choice not to pay for the Fast Lane program. That's your choice, but the fact is these people have paid a premium and they should be given a better experience than you.

But that's exactly my point. Fast pass systems create unfairness, mostly on the side of those guests that don't purchase the pass. That's the problem with such a system - there's no fair way to implement it for all parties.

The only winner is the park who profits on it with very minimal cost associated with it.

Those that don't purchase the pass either don't care to purchase one, can't afford to purchase one, or were unable to purchase one before they sold out.

If there is to be any unfairness in such a system, it should be on the side of those that skipped the line. Riding in the middle of the train is a fair trade-off for skipping a two hour wait.

Eric_Gieszl said:

My problem with these programs is the half ass implementation.

Agreed.

Eric_Gieszl said:

Disneyland doesn't have FastPass for PeterPan because they haven't rebuilt the queue. Disney will rebuild the queue first then implement the program on a ride. They know that walking people up the exit is a bad idea and pre-loading a roller coaster train from the exit slows down operations, reduces capacity and makes the regular line longer. Exit ramps also aren't designed to queue up riders so when people are standing on the exit it impedes the flow of the exit traffic.

I agree here too. But like I said before, many parks can't or don't want to redesign the queue to accommodate such a program. They have to use the exit, and if that's the case, you're really going to piss people off who waited for the front or back row, if you give a "line cutter" their seats.

Eric_Gieszl said:

Blocking off rows never works well. I've never seen one instance of it working well and as a regular guest the inefficiency of it angers me very much.

Also, I should note that I've argued my way out of those reserved rows nearly every time I use FlashPass. If I'm going to pay $100 for a Platinum FlashPass I'm going to ride where I want to.

I understand your point here - that you paid so much for the pass, and can't sit where you want. But again, I would argue that the value you pay for is to cut the line and ride the ride more quickly. That's why I like the $50 price point, as opposed to $100 or more. There's less of a sense of entitlement.

Plus, if a guest knows before purchasing such a pass that they will not get the best seats on the coaster, it will either discourage him from purchasing it, or he'll understand when they enter the station.

I like the way Hersheypark and Cedar Fair have set their systems up to this point. We'll see how it goes as it is implemented.

drachen
Coaster to Park Ratio: 4.90 / Steel to Wooden Ratio: 2.55 / Wooden Coaster Percentage: 28.2%
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Re: CP Fast Lane is up by Eric_Gieszl Eric_Gieszl Profile at 4/5/12 2:30:32 PM
Wait a second your entire argument is about "entitlement". You feel the guests who pay the least should be entitled to the most.

No park that I'm aware of has ever guaranteed that 100% of the capacity of a ride is allocated to the general admission.

So despite the fact that I can't afford a Ferrari, based on your argument I should be entitled to one. Isn't that correct?

Line cutting is something that is against the rules. Paying for a premium experience is not breaking rules and I have a major problem with people associating the two. Equality is boring!

Parks like Six Flags, for example, have seen extreme downward pressure on their gate prices. A season pass today basically costs the same as it did 20 years ago, but yet the price of gas has more than tripled and a candy bar has quadrupled. At the current prices I don't think you can expect much. That's why parks are significantly increasing concession and merchandise prices and introducing premium experiences to make up for what they're having a hard time getting at the gate.

Re: CP Fast Lane is up by JetMech JetMech Profile at 4/5/12 2:47:14 PM
RobLec said:

JetMech said:
Do you recall what the wait times were using the fast lane?


I've never used CF's Fast Lane pass, but I heard someone say during the Haunt that Fast Lane wait times for attractions were 30 minutes as opposed to the typical two hour wait. I'm guessing that would translate to typical wait time being about one fourth of the standby line (e.g, 15 minutes vs one hour).

Thanks, if thats the case it isn't similar to a SF's gold bot as I assumed. Although a 30 minute wait isn't bad against the price tag..

Re: CP Fast Lane is up by NotSo NotSo Profile at 5/11/12 7:28:57 PM
Completely amped up for Fast Lane tomorrow at CP! If it sucks, i'll post about it. If its great you may never hear from me again, goodbye troll lol. Damn i'm gonna spend a lot of money this year, already $2000 at CP in passes+hotel bookings and i havent even gone yet, add fast lane to it and wow, but its my biggest summertime hobby so here we go!
Re: CP Fast Lane is up by frontrow frontrow Profile at 5/11/12 8:41:45 PM
NotSo said:

Completely amped up for Fast Lane tomorrow at CP! If it sucks, i'll post about it. If its great you may never hear from me again, goodbye troll lol. Damn i'm gonna spend a lot of money this year, already $2000 at CP in passes+hotel bookings and i havent even gone yet, add fast lane to it and wow, but its my biggest summertime hobby so here we go!

How many days are going for? Our June coaster trip has a budget of $2,000. We are planning a Midwest trip that includes 2 days at SF St. Louis, 1 day at Worlds Of Fun, 2 days at Six Flags Great America, and 1 day at Michigans Adventure. I have 3 kids and live in southwest PA. I just can't understand how Cedar Point would coat $2,000, unless you have to pay for airline tickets. Just curious.

Re: CP Fast Lane is up by NotSo NotSo Profile at 5/11/12 9:19:08 PM
frontrow said:

NotSo said:

Completely amped up for Fast Lane tomorrow at CP! If it sucks, i'll post about it. If its great you may never hear from me again, goodbye troll lol. Damn i'm gonna spend a lot of money this year, already $2000 at CP in passes+hotel bookings and i havent even gone yet, add fast lane to it and wow, but its my biggest summertime hobby so here we go!

How many days are going for? Our June coaster trip has a budget of $2,000. We are planning a Midwest trip that includes 2 days at SF St. Louis, 1 day at Worlds Of Fun, 2 days at Six Flags Great America, and 1 day at Michigans Adventure. I have 3 kids and live in southwest PA. I just can't understand how Cedar Point would coat $2,000, unless you have to pay for airline tickets. Just curious.


Well, its Breakers opening day, then Lighthouse Point for a couple days next week, and also mid-summer we got a room at Breakers that i always wanted (at $260 +tax per night for a whole week). It seems like a ton of money, and people look at me funny, but we really enjoy the park and relax, enjoy staying there and taking it slow. So relaxing.

So yeah, not all at once. But add KI, Kennywood, Waldameer, and maybe a Six Flags in there this summer and.. i better start working some overtime! :)

Seriously, if this fast lane thing works like i think it will, i cant imagine not using it. But ive earned it, i sacrifice other things, like ive never had a cell phone, dont splurge on clothes, etc. 36, no house or car payment, lovin life.. hard work pays off trust me!

* This post was modified at 5/11/12 9:54:45 PM *

Re: CP Fast Lane is up by NotSo NotSo Profile at 5/25/12 8:06:11 AM
Well that didnt take long! They raised the price already for Fast Lane at CP. Probably a good thing. Guess they noticed people just grouping up to buy the $30 fast lane tickets. Wasnt hard to turn around to the people behind you at the gate and say "hey lets say we are a group and get a cheaper price". I wonder if they will keep raising it. I thought it should be closer to $100.
Re: CP Fast Lane is up by squirrels at 5/30/12 1:58:52 PM
Yeah, this is a great idea! Force poor schmucks to sit in line for an extra 30-45 minutes while rich people pay money to line-jump and screw over those people who don't make enough.

I've got an even better idea. Bid for seats! Every time a train gets ready to leave the station, each seat should be auctioned off to the highest bidder. It could be done electronically to speed it up. If you've got enough money, you get the seat you want whenever you want it. After all, coaster-riding should be a privilege exclusive to the wealthy.

If you're just a middle-class family wanting to enjoy themselves at the theme park for the day, you should have to wait until the upper crust have a chance to ride before you crust up the seats with your squalor. Yeah, your ticket is just as good as theirs...for getting INTO the park. But that doesn't mean you have the right to ride anything when there are people better than you waiting to pay more.

While we're at it, why don't we have separate "white" and "colored" lines at amusement parks? As long as theme parks are going to engage in class-warfare to increase their profits, they may as well take it one step further.

As far as I'm concerned, any park that does this loses my respect as a "friendly" place. It's all about the almighty dollar. If you have enough money, you don't HAVE to obey the rules. You can pretty much sh*t on everyone else who paid to get into the park because you can afford to pay more.

If that's the way it's going to be, then fine, I guess.

And this is coming from someone who CAN afford the "Fast Pass" or "Fast Lane" or whatever the free pass to jump the line and screw over the poor schmucks is called at the respective park.

I feel very passionately about this, and I think it's crooked to sell people tickets to get into the park and then tell them, "you can ride any ride you want, as long as no rich people want to jump in front of you".

Re: CP Fast Lane is up by NotSo NotSo Profile at 5/30/12 10:56:12 PM
Its only $55, dont exactly need to be rich to enjoy Fast Lane.
Re: CP Fast Lane is up by d-lo775 d-lo775 Profile at 5/31/12 12:36:56 AM
NotSo said:

Its only $55, dont exactly need to be rich to enjoy Fast Lane.

You don't exactly need money, fast pass or theme parks to enjoy life either. They are all material things that can never replace the truly important things.

Funny thing about life is that you can think you have it figured out all you want, but you don't.

All people can be replaced at their job. If they couldn't companies would go out of business once their workforce started to retired or quit. Companies do outsource and relocate, no matter how much you think it can't happen to you, it can. Someone or something, somewhere, can and will always do what you do for less money.

Natural disasters,fires, accidents and terminal diseases could care less how successful you are or what you own. Insurance companies don't just hand over money the next day with no questions asked when things do go wrong. It is often a long process that can take months, if not years to get things back to normal, if that is even possible.

Putting yourself and your needs before others will often come back to haunt you. As the Tesla song goes....It's not what you got, It's what you give.

In all the years and jobs that I've ever worked, I've never met a hard worker that needed to self promote and brag on themselves. I've noticed that is reserved for those that need to convince themselves or others of how great they are.

Re: CP Fast Lane is up by NotSo NotSo Profile at 5/31/12 1:11:47 AM
^ Great post! Exactly, live life to the fullest cause who knows what might happen. Live a little, get Fast Lane while its cheap!
Re: CP Fast Lane is up by Coaster316 at 5/31/12 7:17:42 AM
squirrels said:


I feel very passionately about this, and I think it's crooked to sell people tickets to get into the park and then tell them, "you can ride any ride you want, as long as no rich people want to jump in front of you".

Come on. That's not what is happening. These systems are promoted outside the park. Its not like its some secret only the rich know about. And they certainly aren't preventing "non-rich" people from riding. You're being dramatic.

Besides, what about the people that can't afford to go to the parks at all? How do you think they feel when people like you can go ride these multi-million dollar coasters but they can only go to their local playgrounds? Is it crooked for you to pay a price for general admission tickets to a park that is outside of their abilities? "You can come ride these rides we built for the community...but only if you can afford general admission."

Financial lines are drawn everywhere.

Re: CP Fast Lane is up by squirrels at 5/31/12 11:34:46 AM
Coaster316 said:

squirrels said:



I feel very passionately about this, and I think it's crooked to sell people tickets to get into the park and then tell them, "you can ride any ride you want, as long as no rich people want to jump in front of you".

Come on. That's not what is happening. These systems are promoted outside the park. Its not like its some secret only the rich know about. And they certainly aren't preventing "non-rich" people from riding. You're being dramatic.

Besides, what about the people that can't afford to go to the parks at all? How do you think they feel when people like you can go ride these multi-million dollar coasters but they can only go to their local playgrounds? Is it crooked for you to pay a price for general admission tickets to a park that is outside of their abilities? "You can come ride these rides we built for the community...but only if you can afford general admission."

Financial lines are drawn everywhere.

People buy general admission tickets with the idea that they're going to be able to ride the rides present within the park.

In a park like CP on a busy day, that is BARELY true. The central attractions in the park have waits in excess of 2 hours and they are fickle in terms of reliability. You could very easily take a road trip to CP and end up barely getting a ride in on the coasters you came for.

Introduce a "pay to line-jump" system and you could very well come to CP, pay your $40 or $50 entry fee, and end up actually missing out on rides because the lines at the park are too long.

I've stood in line for Kingda Ka at 6F for a half-hour, while they continually filled ENTIRE trains full of "FastPass" riders. MY line didn't move this entire time. When the Fast-Passers finally slowed down, I got loaded into the car...and the ride faulted and was shut down.

All of the "privileged" people got to ride in front of me. Why?

On a light-day, it's not a problem. On a weekend in summer, when big-name parks are CRAMMED full of people, FastLane/FastPass could mean that if you don't pay double, you don't GET to ride. If you bought a general admission without the "I'm better than you pass", you pretty much p!ssed your money away. You're welcome to pay $41.99 to stand in line, but if you actually want to RIDE anything, you'd better pay an extra $60 to stand in the "whites only" line.

I would RATHER they raise general admission. If your park is over-crowded, charge more. That's supply-and-demand. But if you pay to get in, you should be equal to the rest of the people who paid to get in. Their money goes to keeping the park running just as much as yours. Why should they be sh*t on?

Like I said, it's not a big deal for me...I'll pop the extra $60 to actually be able to ride rides. But for a family of 4, that's $240 in addition to the price of admission, about $160. It gets prohibitive. You can say, "just pay it". I can "just pay it". You can't tell someone who's just barely making ends meet who wants to take his kids on a fun outing to "just pay it".

Is this the direction amusement parks are going? A playground for yuppie jet-setters instead of children and family outings? If so, then I guess that's how it is...but raise general admission then. Don't make people pay one rate to stand in line and another rate to jump into another, faster line. Don't tell people they have to pay twice as much if they actually want to RIDE anything. People don't come to amusement parks to stand in line and places like Cedar Point and 6f GAdv aren't about scenery and cotton candy stalls.

Make EVERYONE pay more, give EVERYONE equal standing in line.

Or expand the park/open new parks.

FastLane/FastPass aren't solutions to line issues. The lines still exist. No one came up with FastPass by asking themselves, "how can we solve the problems of long lines at our rides?", they came up with it by saying, "how can we profit from the suffering of our customers?".

In the process of making things BETTER for those with money, they make them WORSE for those WITHOUT extra disposable income. You essentially paid another $50-$60 to make someone else stand in line longer. What makes you better than them?

* This post was modified at 5/31/12 11:36:16 AM *

Re: CP Fast Lane is up by NotSo NotSo Profile at 5/31/12 12:51:54 PM
Hahahahahaha!!! What!!??
Re: CP Fast Lane is up by Runvs1691 at 5/31/12 3:20:47 PM
Interesting point Squirrels, but I think we need to look at this another way. First off I am not sure where you come off brining race into this whole thing as CP does not discriminate against who can and cannot buy the passes so lets get that out of the argument right away. Second lets look at it mathematically if you will indulge me for a moment. Let's say TTD will hold 40 riders per 2 cars (which is what the station loads) and before the fast lane all 40 were loaded from the regular line. Now with the implementation of fast lane the front car is loaded with fast pass so 20 riders are in that car, and the back car is loaded with regular line riders also 20 riders. Seems unfair for the regular line noting now only 20 riders are going to make it on per ride right? WRONG!! Those 20 riders that are in the fast lane would have normally been waiting in the regular line thus making your normal ride a much longer wait and without them there the line is technically the same amount of wait time as it would have been had all of the riders been in the same line. While it may not be apparent on the surface and may seem that paying for the pass is leading to longer wait times, Cedar Point I am sure did a lot of research and process improvement to ensure wait times didn't increase incrementally from previous years. I feel confident in saying that while it may look like the regular line has a longer wait because of the fast pass(which compared to the short fast pass lines it will be a "longer wait) if all people were placed in the normal line the wait would be just as long if not longer. Not all can afford the fast lane I hear you on that but this program is most likely not adding an insane wait time based on the evidence provided above.

* This post was modified at 5/31/12 3:22:09 PM *

Re: CP Fast Lane is up by Coaster316 at 5/31/12 3:30:30 PM
Quotes from squirrels are italicized below. My response follow between the sets of **.

People buy general admission tickets with the idea that they're going to be able to ride the rides present within the park.

**I can say with full honesty that I have never paid for general admission tickets expecting to ride all of the rides within a park. Never.**


All of the "privileged" people got to ride in front of me. Why?

**Because they paid more.**

On a light-day, it's not a problem. On a weekend in summer, when big-name parks are CRAMMED full of people, FastLane/FastPass could mean that if you don't pay double, you don't GET to ride. If you bought a general admission without the "I'm better than you pass", you pretty much p!ssed your money away. You're welcome to pay $41.99 to stand in line, but if you actually want to RIDE anything, you'd better pay an extra $60 to stand in the "whites only" line.

**You’re exaggerating. $41.99 will get you plenty of rides even on a crowded day. Also, the racial comparison is insulting.**

I would RATHER they raise general admission. If your park is over-crowded, charge more. That's supply-and-demand. But if you pay to get in, you should be equal to the rest of the people who paid to get in. Their money goes to keeping the park running just as much as yours. Why should they be sh*t on?

**And this is where I get frustrated personally. What about the people who can’t pay the raised admission? I’d much rather be able to pay and go and ride SOME rides than not be able to go at all and miss out on the atmosphere, rides, shows, etc. And no, their money doesn’t got to keeping the park running just as much as yours because they paid more. **

You can't tell someone who's just barely making ends meet who wants to take his kids on a fun outing to "just pay it".

** See above. You’re telling the next level down in the class system to just pay it or not go at all. You’re just drawing a different line. To me, that is considerably worse than telling middle class to just pay it and wait in line an extra half hour. Way worse.**

Is this the direction amusement parks are going? A playground for yuppie jet-setters
instead of children and family outings?

**We have had completely different experiences with fast pass systems. Besides, you just priced out a lot of families in the paragraphs above this anyway.**


Make EVERYONE pay more, give EVERYONE equal standing in line.

**Not EVERYONE can pay more. You can’t eliminate an entire class of people and then say, “there, everyone is equal now”. That makes no sense. If anything, fast passes have found a way to keep more people in the ballgame. Otherwise, less people would be able to participate at all. **

FastLane/FastPass aren't solutions to line issues. The lines still exist. No one came up with FastPass by asking themselves, "how can we solve the problems of long lines at our rides?", they came up with it by saying, "how can we profit from the suffering of our customers?".

**Absolutely untrue. Absolutely, absolutely untrue. Nobody ever implemented a fast pass with the idea of profit from suffering of customers. They are profiting from the people that benefit from the system, not those that suffer from it. You’re demonizing people who are trying to make money and provide an additional service.**

In the process of making things BETTER for those with money, they make them WORSE for those WITHOUT extra disposable income. You essentially paid another $50-$60 to make someone else stand in line longer. What makes you better than them?

**The same thing that makes those people standing in longer lines better than those who can’t afford to go at all, I guess.**

Re: CP Fast Lane is up by Eric_Gieszl Eric_Gieszl Profile at 5/31/12 4:43:17 PM
Parks measure all sorts of financial stats, but they also measure ride stats like:

- Downtime
- Average waits
- Average ride/attractions experienced per guest

The latter is very important since if the number of rides and attractions experienced falls below a certain number guest satisfaction significantly decreases.

Disney apparently says the goal is 10. If it falls below 10 then survey scores drop significantly. If it stays at 10 or higher survey scores are good. Disney also bases a parks' maximum capacity on the number of attractions open and the capacity of those that are open. If many are down for refurbishment the "sell out" number is much lower with the ultimate goal of reaching that specific ride/attraction per cap.

My point is- This stuff isn't new to Cedar Point or Cedar Fair either. Fast Lane pricing and availability will be adjusted accordingly so the guest who simply uses the general admission still has a good experience.

And finally equality sucks. It's boring. I like all of the new up-charge options and many of them are coming to be because some of the guests attending parks want these services and are willing to pay for them. The parks are in business to make money and it would be foolish to ignore these opportunities in the interest of equality. The largest groups opposed to these services are usually season passholders, who typically want everything for nothing.

* This post was modified at 5/31/12 4:47:25 PM *

--
Eric
Ultimate Rollercoaster Moderator
Re: CP Fast Lane is up by ray_p ray_p Profile at 5/31/12 10:16:03 PM
I just used FastLane at Canada's Wonderland today and I will say with utmost certainty that if a park offers something like this, I WILL use it. Leviathan's queues was mostly full (about a 45 minute wait) and I got on it 3 times in under 10 minutes, and that includes getting off and getting on again. Skipped about a 15 minute wait for the lame Backlot Stunt Coaster, and skipped lines at Vortex, Wild Beast, Minebuster and Behemoth. The attendant at Minebuster asked me how my day was going so far and I said "splendid". You really do feel like a special person for shelling out the extra cash. Since I have a platinum pass, my parking and admission were free, so paying the extra $62 (tax not included on the $55 base price) for me was a no-brainer.

While some would argue that FLwasn't needed on a day like today at CW, I had limited time and with FL, I got on at least 14 rides, some multiple times, between 10 am and 2:45 pm. Now if only they had a FastLane for traffic on the QEW....

Re: CP Fast Lane is up by NotSo NotSo Profile at 6/1/12 12:06:31 AM
hey squirells, i just spent $700 at Phantom in Youngstown, on fireworks. In your estimation, how "rich and yuppy" would that make me? Like, maybe i shoulda just got smoke bombs at GetGo instead of all the 500 gram repeaters i got, because i dont want my neighbors to feel like i am a yuppy. LOL!!!
Or geez, really, i feel so bad for paying extra for a golf cart yesterday, because all those lower class citezens had to walk it while i did dohnuts in the ruff! HAHAHAHA!

Oh squirells, dont stop, you entertain me. Ill group you with GRTUmp and SirWillow as people who just fail at life. Thanks!

* This post was modified at 6/1/12 12:22:32 AM *

Re: CP Fast Lane is up by frontrow frontrow Profile at 6/1/12 5:27:10 AM
ray_p said:

I just used FastLane at Canada's Wonderland today and I will say with utmost certainty that if a park offers something like this, I WILL use it. Leviathan's queues was mostly full (about a 45 minute wait) and I got on it 3 times in under 10 minutes, and that includes getting off and getting on again. Skipped about a 15 minute wait for the lame Backlot Stunt Coaster, and skipped lines at Vortex, Wild Beast, Minebuster and Behemoth. The attendant at Minebuster asked me how my day was going so far and I said "splendid". You really do feel like a special person for shelling out the extra cash. Since I have a platinum pass, my parking and admission were free, so paying the extra $62 (tax not included on the $55 base price) for me was a no-brainer.


While some would argue that FLwasn't needed on a day like today at CW, I had limited time and with FL, I got on at least 14 rides, some multiple times, between 10 am and 2:45 pm. Now if only they had a FastLane for traffic on the QEW....

Hey Ray, we want a TR. How is Leviathan? You have my curiosity stirring.

Re: CP Fast Lane is up by beastmaster beastmaster Profile at 6/1/12 6:02:30 AM
ray_p said:

Leviathan's queues was mostly full (about a 45 minute wait) and I got on it 3 times in under 10 minutes, and that includes getting off and getting on again.

I'm surprised Leviathan was ON the Fast Lane roster. As an illustration why I am so, I don't believer Stinger is on Dorney's roster. But I'll have ERT on that next Sunday morning, so it's no big deal for me. I will have, on that day, my first experience with Fast Lane, but won't get to use it much, as I will be engaged in a Steel Force marathon for most of the day.

Mike

*EDIT*..my bad..Stinger IS included among the 10 Fast Lane attractions at Dorney.

* This post was modified at 6/1/12 6:04:43 AM *

The amusement park rises bold and stark
Kids are huddled on the beach in a mist...
Re: CP Fast Lane is up by squirrels at 6/1/12 12:44:16 PM
NotSo said:

hey squirells, i just spent $700 at Phantom in Youngstown, on fireworks. In your estimation, how "rich and yuppy" would that make me? Like, maybe i shoulda just got smoke bombs at GetGo instead of all the 500 gram repeaters i got, because i dont want my neighbors to feel like i am a yuppy. LOL!!!
Or geez, really, i feel so bad for paying extra for a golf cart yesterday, because all those lower class citezens had to walk it while i did dohnuts in the ruff! HAHAHAHA!

Oh squirells, dont stop, you entertain me. Ill group you with GRTUmp and SirWillow as people who just fail at life. Thanks!

Only $700? :)

PS: The "Pyrotechnic Motherlode" is the best 500g repeater they have.

* This post was modified at 6/1/12 12:49:57 PM *

Re: CP Fast Lane is up by squirrels at 6/1/12 3:53:44 PM
Eric_Gieszl said:

Parks measure all sorts of financial stats, but they also measure ride stats like:


- Downtime
- Average waits
- Average ride/attractions experienced per guest

The latter is very important since if the number of rides and attractions experienced falls below a certain number guest satisfaction significantly decreases.

Disney apparently says the goal is 10. If it falls below 10 then survey scores drop significantly. If it stays at 10 or higher survey scores are good. Disney also bases a parks' maximum capacity on the number of attractions open and the capacity of those that are open. If many are down for refurbishment the "sell out" number is much lower with the ultimate goal of reaching that specific ride/attraction per cap.

My point is- This stuff isn't new to Cedar Point or Cedar Fair either. Fast Lane pricing and availability will be adjusted accordingly so the guest who simply uses the general admission still has a good experience.

And finally equality sucks. It's boring. I like all of the new up-charge options and many of them are coming to be because some of the guests attending parks want these services and are willing to pay for them. The parks are in business to make money and it would be foolish to ignore these opportunities in the interest of equality. The largest groups opposed to these services are usually season passholders, who typically want everything for nothing.

If it's truly optimized like that, then maybe you're right. However, I don't see how a park as crowded as CP can give line-jumping privileges to those who can pay for them and still expect regular admission to be able to get the ride-time they ought to get.

People also need to bear in mind that those people who use these line-jumper passes use them not just once, but MULTIPLE times.

As I said before, I've personally stood and waited in the "normal" line for over 30 minutes at 6fGAdv, not moving, while train after train of "Flasshpass" users were let in front of me. Maybe that won't happen at the Cedar Fair parks. But I'm skeptical.

I'm in the wrong crowd with this complaint, obviously, since "coaster enthusiasts" will gladly pay significantly more for special privileged riding status and don't see the problem with doing so. I even said I would do so. But I'm not going to feel good about myself when I see the scowls of the people in the lines behind me, because I've BEEN in their shoes. NO ONE likes to wait in line.