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Ultimate Rollercoaster > Discussion Forums > Roller Coasters, Parks & Attractions > Timberliners Delayed Again for Voyage

Timberliners Delayed Again for Voyage

Rollercoaster_freak220 Rollercoaster_freak220 Profile

Posted:
3/24/12 at
1:00:14 PM

From Holiday World's Facebook page:

"The new Timberliner trains for The Voyage will not be delivered to us in time for pre-opening testing this spring. Unfortunately, that means we will have to wait until the fall for testing. It is our intent to fully test the new trains and have them on the track for the 2013 season."


I'm beginning to wonder if Timberliners will ever run on Voyage...


-Josh

Re: Timberliners Delayed Again for Voyage by RobLec RobLec Profile at 3/24/12 1:55:34 PM
Rollercoaster_freak220 said:

From Holiday World's Facebook page:
"...It is our intent to fully test the new trains and have them on the track for the 2013 season."

For me this is the best news of all. I'd much rather read this than "the trains are here and we hope to have them tested before the season opens next month".

I know I'm in the minority here, but I fully intend to allow the GP to get thousands of rides on these yet unproven (in my eyes) trains before I trust them with my life.

Re: Timberliners Delayed Again for Voyage by looper77 at 3/24/12 2:01:20 PM
Does anyone know the delay or problem might be with these trains?

After all this tine, it almost seems like why bother, just use some time-tested Millennium Flyers.

Re: Timberliners Delayed Again for Voyage by RobLec RobLec Profile at 3/24/12 2:31:30 PM
I don't think GCI would allow MF's on GG track.
Re: Timberliners Delayed Again for Voyage by CoasterFanatic CoasterFanatic Profile at 3/24/12 7:22:55 PM
I won't comment on to why the TL's aren't on Voyage yet, But to say the first train was severely altered after finding several stronger parts needed and the change from a two bench nose car to a single with a leader. They also welded Steel ribs around the seat carriage which are now part of the Mold.

Mike stated himself that his family would be riding in them and he wouldn't let anyone ride until he was 100 percent sure. When he was, Him, Will Koch III and a few other people took a cold November ride on Voyage and two other coasters have operated a whole season with no incidents with them.

I won't even go into my thoughts on whats UNSAFE IMHO about PTC's but I would say they are safe if both rider and park do all things correctly. (MY OPINION) Cept maybe the bars popping open on several of their trains I've ridden.

Re: Timberliners Delayed Again for Voyage by CoasterFanatic CoasterFanatic Profile at 3/24/12 7:36:29 PM
I know some of it is Time Constraints. Voyage went through a major and I mean major overhaul this winter. Something I applaud and goes beyond what most parks do to keep a ride operating in tip top condition. Many parks would just throw some brakes on em and let em run at reduced and rough performance.

There is also the matter of time TGG and Gravity Kraft need to order the parts and assemble them while continuing to *DESIGN* new rides for other parks and other projects that aren't necessarily amusement based, While many are. They are a engineering firm and design bridges ect as well. Ravine Flyer II anyone? The Pier Air Crow sits on at IB. Etc.

GCII has stated they would sell MF trains to other qualified rides, However they have different parameters as to what they will allow for that I think TGG exceeds. Such as not going beyond +.5 G (This may or may not still be true and I may or may not have all my facts straight)

Re: Timberliners Delayed Again for Voyage by RobLec RobLec Profile at 3/24/12 10:34:46 PM
Hey Chuck - all good points, and I'm not trying to be argumentative, but just going on my gut feeling.

PTC's may be a horrible design. They may have been designed on a napkin or by a kid for a school project. But they have collectively delivered billions of rides to millions of passengers over the years. They are completely torn apart every year and each bolt is examined for wear. The maintenance guys know them intimately inside out and can probably judge their reliability by the sound of the wheels on the track. I'm not saying they are inherently safe, but they do have an incredibly respectable track record.

OTOH I am NOT saying the Timberliners are in any way unsafe. I'm sure they are very well engineered and have been rigorously tested. But their only track record is what, one season on two coasters? As I posted once before, there is a HUGE difference between something like Wooden Warrior and Voyage. I'm glad they're doing something about Voyage's roughness, and I hope the one-two punch of retracking and articulating trains resolves the issue. But I'll let everyone ELSE prove it to me first.

Re: Timberliners Delayed Again for Voyage by looper77 at 3/24/12 11:55:43 PM
RobLec said:

Hey Chuck - all good points, and I'm not trying to be argumentative, but just going on my gut feeling.


PTC's may be a horrible design. They may have been designed on a napkin or by a kid for a school project. But they have collectively delivered billions of rides to millions of passengers over the years. They are completely torn apart every year and each bolt is examined for wear. The maintenance guys know them intimately inside out and can probably judge their reliability by the sound of the wheels on the track. I'm not saying they are inherently safe, but they do have an incredibly respectable track record.

Interesting that you say that. PTC's do seem to have a horrible reputation, but I actually like them and have missed them on some coasters. And for some coasters that use them, such as the Beast or the John Allen racers (Racer/Rebel Yell), I can't imagine them using any other type of rolling stock.

OTOH I am NOT saying the Timberliners are in any way unsafe. I'm sure they are very well engineered and have been rigorously tested. But their only track record is what, one season on two coasters? As I posted once before, there is a HUGE difference between something like Wooden Warrior and Voyage. I'm glad they're doing something about Voyage's roughness, and I hope the one-two punch of retracking and articulating trains resolves the issue. But I'll let everyone ELSE prove it to me first.

I don't think I've ridden the Voyage since it's first year, I thought it was very intense then, but not rough. Has the ride become rough over time?

Re: Timberliners Delayed Again for Voyage by CoasterFanatic CoasterFanatic Profile at 3/25/12 8:22:52 AM
RobLec said:

Hey Chuck - all good points, and I'm not trying to be argumentative, but just going on my gut feeling.


PTC's may be a horrible design. They may have been designed on a napkin or by a kid for a school project. But they have collectively delivered billions of rides to millions of passengers over the years. They are completely torn apart every year and each bolt is examined for wear. The maintenance guys know them intimately inside out and can probably judge their reliability by the sound of the wheels on the track. I'm not saying they are inherently safe, but they do have an incredibly respectable track record.

Just out of clarity, Take the parks they are in into consideration because not all do the type inspections and maintained like you speak of. There are many parks that leave the train in the station and fire it back up next spring. Some ship them to PTC to have them inspected and replaced, Some like KI do it themselves. When we rode Americanas Screechin Eagle in 2002 that train sat in the station for four years and the inspector found a few bolts they didn't have on site. So it didn't open first day Although that was a PTC/NAD hybird.

OTOH I am NOT saying the Timberliners are in any way unsafe. I'm sure they are very well engineered and have been rigorously tested. But their only track record is what, one season on two coasters? As I posted once before, there is a HUGE difference between something like Wooden Warrior and Voyage. I'm glad they're doing something about Voyage's roughness, and I hope the one-two punch of retracking and articulating trains resolves the issue. But I'll let everyone ELSE prove it to me first.

Like I think I said in the other post. The main issue has been time needed to build and test while continuing to design rides and other projects.

Re: Timberliners Delayed Again for Voyage by CoasterFanatic CoasterFanatic Profile at 3/25/12 8:27:07 AM
looper77 said:

RobLec said:

Hey Chuck - all good points, and I'm not trying to be argumentative, but just going on my gut feeling.


PTC's may be a horrible design. They may have been designed on a napkin or by a kid for a school project. But they have collectively delivered billions of rides to millions of passengers over the years. They are completely torn apart every year and each bolt is examined for wear. The maintenance guys know them intimately inside out and can probably judge their reliability by the sound of the wheels on the track. I'm not saying they are inherently safe, but they do have an incredibly respectable track record.

Interesting that you say that. PTC's do seem to have a horrible reputation, but I actually like them and have missed them on some coasters. And for some coasters that use them, such as the Beast or the John Allen racers (Racer/Rebel Yell), I can't imagine them using any other type of rolling stock.

Wow, I dream of something else. My first rides on Beast were without ratcheting bars, seatbelts or high
backs.

OTOH I am NOT saying the Timberliners are in any way unsafe. I'm sure they are very well engineered and have been rigorously tested. But their only track record is what, one season on two coasters? As I posted once before, there is a HUGE difference between something like Wooden Warrior and Voyage. I'm glad they're doing something about Voyage's roughness, and I hope the one-two punch of retracking and articulating trains resolves the issue. But I'll let everyone ELSE prove it to me first.

I don't think I've ridden the Voyage since it's first year, I thought it was very intense then, but not rough. Has the ride become rough over time?

Theres been a few spots on the second and third hill *GOING UP* that have a bad shake and the last couple years you'll get one ride that seems fine and the next it seems to shake you to death on the return run.

They went over it bent by bent this winter, Rebuilt a section and retracked a bunch of it. Should be fine for a couple years.

Re: Timberliners Delayed Again for Voyage by looper77 at 3/25/12 3:03:52 PM
CoasterFanatic said:

Theres been a few spots on the second and third hill *GOING UP* that have a bad shake and the last couple years you'll get one ride that seems fine and the next it seems to shake you to death on the return run.

They went over it bent by bent this winter, Rebuilt a section and retracked a bunch of it. Should be fine for a couple years.

Thanks for the info! I loved the Voyage, but even when it first opened, I thought it was too intense to ride over and over again, back to back. I can't imagine what it was like if it got rough.

I like to ride coasters with my hands up, but on Voyage, it was impossible. I was white-knuckling it the entire way! LOL

Re: Timberliners Delayed Again for Voyage by CoasterFanatic CoasterFanatic Profile at 3/25/12 3:52:40 PM
looper77 said:

CoasterFanatic said:


Theres been a few spots on the second and third hill *GOING UP* that have a bad shake and the last couple years you'll get one ride that seems fine and the next it seems to shake you to death on the return run.

They went over it bent by bent this winter, Rebuilt a section and retracked a bunch of it. Should be fine for a couple years.

Thanks for the info! I loved the Voyage, but even when it first opened, I thought it was too intense to ride over and over again, back to back. I can't imagine what it was like if it got rough.

I like to ride coasters with my hands up, but on Voyage, it was impossible. I was white-knuckling it the entire way! LOL

Honestly, Voyage is the first woodie I ride hands down for a reason and wearing you out is the reason! I can manage about seven laps riding hands down. I do however have them up of the first three drops :)

Re: Timberliners Delayed Again for Voyage by RobLec RobLec Profile at 3/25/12 3:55:57 PM
looper77 said:

Thanks for the info! I loved the Voyage, but even when it first opened, I thought it was too intense to ride over and over again, back to back. I can't imagine what it was like if it got rough.

First year, two or three rides in a row were about all anyone could tolerate. By the second and third year I could do six in a row. We did not attend HWN on 2009, but when we returned in 2010, one ride was all we could take. Later that summer I took my son and he wanted to ride so bad... I let him ride alone and he intended to get in some re-rides. But when he got off he just looked bewildered and said that's enough.

Shame to see such a magnificent ride go downhill so soon. It seems it (and its riders) were just getting broken in. Then Will passed and nobody knew what was going to happen. As I said earlier, I hope the one-two punch makes it rideable once more.

Re: Timberliners Delayed Again for Voyage by looper77 at 3/25/12 6:22:26 PM
RobLec said:

First year, two or three rides in a row were about all anyone could tolerate. By the second and third year I could do six in a row. We did not attend HWN on 2009, but when we returned in 2010, one ride was all we could take. Later that summer I took my son and he wanted to ride so bad... I let him ride alone and he intended to get in some re-rides. But when he got off he just looked bewildered and said that's enough.

Shame to see such a magnificent ride go downhill so soon. It seems it (and its riders) were just getting broken in. Then Will passed and nobody knew what was going to happen. As I said earlier, I hope the one-two punch makes it rideable once more.

In it's first year, I loved it. I though it was an amazing coaster. I couldn't believe someone had built something that wild and extreme. However, as much as I loved it, at one point during the ride, I actually was wanting it to end. I felt like I couldn't hold on any longer and wanted to yell "stop the ride, I wanna get off!"

Yet despite that, it's one of my all-time favorite wooden coasters!

Re: Timberliners Delayed Again for Voyage by drachen drachen Profile at 3/25/12 10:06:43 PM
RobLec said:

Shame to see such a magnificent ride go downhill so soon. It seems it (and its riders) were just getting broken in. Then Will passed and nobody knew what was going to happen. As I said earlier, I hope the one-two punch makes it rideable once more.

I finally got to ride Voyage last year, in it's 6th year of operation. I thought it was phenomenal, and not all that rough. I rode it in the front first and after riding the Legend and Raven, I returned to ride Voyage two times in a row, including a back seat ride.

I felt that I could have ridden in a number of times in a row. But time didn't allow. Sure there were some rough spots in the turn around, and at the very end. But overall, I've felt worse.

Perhaps, the midcourse is currently on tighter than in the past, making the ending less intense than before. But Voyage was still very intense in 2011, and, in my opinion, re-rideable.

drachen
Coaster to Park Ratio: 4.87 / Steel to Wooden Ratio: 2.57 / Wooden Coaster Percentage: 28%
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Re: Timberliners Delayed Again for Voyage by CoasterFanatic CoasterFanatic Profile at 3/26/12 7:17:13 AM
First and second year had some vibrating issues in the last couple turns prior to the lift hill jump but that was about all I ever noticed Rough about it. Like someone said, Until I learned how to ride it. The first couple visits, I was out of breath by the block brake. By fourth of July and third visit that year, I could re ride it back to back.

About the third year, You'd get rides from the middle of the train back that would sometimes just seem to shake you violently, More of aggravating vibration but it would just either give you a headache or wear you down.

I found it worst in 2010 with the six car trains. Especially Ravage, Which lived up to its name and beat me senseless a couple times that I never rode that train again.

2011 I had mostly good rides but had a couple real bad ones in cars 5-6 that for the second night I never rode anywhere but first or second car. With the exception of one or two back seat rides.

Im really hoping this rework puts it back to being good in any seat.

As for the Timberliners. CADILLAC is all I'll say.

I would say that in 2010 and 2011 Legend retook its #1 position for me in the park as it was insane and not shaking as it had in the past few years.. Its also about the perfect length to toss you around and be done at a decent point.

Re: Timberliners Delayed Again for Voyage by LoneStar LoneStar Profile at 3/26/12 8:46:15 AM
CoasterFanatic said:

I would say that in 2010 and 2011 Legend retook its #1 position for me in the park as it was insane and not shaking as it had in the past few years.. Its also about the perfect length to toss you around and be done at a decent point.

Legend is much better when you're getting mooshed all night long with the Nungester brothers!

I rode Voyage in 2007 and 2008. I'll agree it is the only coaster on which I've ever thought - Please let this end...it is too intense!"

I found it rough, but in a good way. I like my woodies to have personality. But, yes, after about 3 rides, the intensity gets to you.

- Pat-O

Re: Timberliners Delayed Again for Voyage by beastmaster beastmaster Profile at 3/26/12 9:15:46 AM
I only made it to HW once. In 2007, I had 50 rides spaced over two days. I found Voyage absolutely exhilarating, and extremely re-rideable. Sure it had rough spots..that goes with the territory on woodies, good and bad. Hell, even Toro has a spot that can be somewhat rough, depending where you sit. But I'm glad I got those rides when the thing was at its peak. I've read more bad than good about the last several years, here and elsewhere.

That being said, I looooved the Timberliners on Wooden Warrior, and I hope what they ultimately get in Santa Claus will run as well.

Mike G.

Re: Timberliners Delayed Again for Voyage by frontrow frontrow Profile at 3/28/12 11:29:41 PM
The last time I visited HW was in 2009. I rode The Voyage 10 times. It was really smooth. I rode the front seat twice and the back seat 8 times. The back seat ride was not only smooth, but it was addicting. Those back seat rides gave me a new respect for that coaster. Only El Toro and Hades can claim superiority on the wooden coaster level. In fact I have The Voyage in my top 10 overall, steel or wooden. Back to question. Timberlines have been successful on small coasters such as Wooden Warrior and Twister. The logical thing to do is put Timberlines on medium size coasters like Ravine Flyer II and Boardwalk Bullet. Then use that data to incorporate those trains on the larger coasters like Hades and The Voyage. The coasters built by Gravity Group are top notch, even with their current trains. This is something that is going to take time and effort. The end product will be that these fantastic coasters will give better ride. The parks involved must have patience, and the same goes for us enthusiasts.
Re: Timberliners Delayed Again for Voyage by LoneStar LoneStar Profile at 3/29/12 12:36:29 AM
frontrow said:

The logical thing to do is put Timberlines on medium size coasters like Ravine Flyer II and Boardwalk Bullet.

MMMMMM..... Timberliners on the Boardwalk Bullet...Delicious!!

- Pat-O

Re: Timberliners Delayed Again for Voyage by Great_Ump Great_Ump Profile at 3/30/12 4:37:08 AM
Wouldn't it be something if Knoebel's opened Flying Turns before HW gets those TL's running?

Granted Knoebels has been working on FT far longer than Timberliners to Voyage.

I mean no disrespect towards HW/TGG as I know this has been a few years (and a few setbacks) in the making.

Joe
Great_Ump

Re: Timberliners Delayed Again for Voyage by beastmaster beastmaster Profile at 3/30/12 5:45:20 AM
Howzabout we just put the Timberliners on Flying Turns and make everybody happy? ;)

Mike

Re: Timberliners Delayed Again for Voyage by LoneStar LoneStar Profile at 3/30/12 9:49:14 AM
And add a loop.