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Ultimate Rollercoaster > Discussion Forums > Roller Coasters, Parks & Attractions > Coaster Polls Don't Work!!

Coaster Polls Don't Work!!

chitlins73 chitlins73 Profile

Posted:
2/18/12 at
8:08:18 AM

Just another example of why coaster polls are not accurate at all.I looked at the latest Mitch Hawker Poll for top Wooden Coasters for 2011.I see that Wooden Warrior is 18 on the list.Are you kidding me.While I do believe this is a fun family coaster,I highly doubt that it is the 18th best wooden coaster in the world!!!...lol..Just because a coaster is new does not make it better.I don't understand what people are thinking when they take these polls??

Re: Coaster Polls Don't Work!! by RobLec RobLec Profile at 2/18/12 8:33:28 AM

Coaster Polls Don't Work!! Especially Mitch's. It is controlled by a small group of people who can vote some obscure coaster on the other side of the globe that no one has ridden and rank it as #1 in the world.

Re: Coaster Polls Don't Work!! by MABrider MABrider Profile at 2/18/12 9:13:30 AM

Coaster polls don't work.

I think most coaster enthusiasts come to this same conclusion after a couple years or so of riding.

Even person to person discussions among close friends can't always be a good indicator of what your take on a coaster will be.

Ya just gotta ride 'em yourself!

Mike B. (stating the obvious, no?)

Re: Coaster Polls Don't Work!! by drachen drachen Profile at 2/18/12 10:56:23 AM

> Coaster Polls Don't Work!! Especially Mitch's. It is
> controlled by a small group of people who can vote some
> obscure coaster on the other side of the globe that no
> one
has ridden and rank it as #1 in the world.

Even worse, that group consists of mostly Theme Park Review members, who all think and act the same as their "leader". That site pushes the hell out of that poll, and it's evident in the results.

That was seen this year with Grona Lund's new little Twister, ranked in the teens because everyone that went on the TPR trip voted it so highly.

I can appreciate the effort that's put into Hawker's polls and even Amusement Today's, and it's at least interesting to read through them. But the bottom line is that in this hobby, there is no way to eliminate bias.

Regarding Hawker's poll, how can anyone effectively rank, from best to worst, all of the coasters they've ridden, especially if they haven't ridden a particular ride in years? That's essentially what that poll asks you to do.

No poll carries any real weight with me. I have my favorites, but I simply like to travel and visit parks I've never been to, and ride roller coasters I've never ridden.

Re: Coaster Polls Don't Work!! by drachen drachen Profile at 2/18/12 11:57:05 AM

Sorry for the double post. But I found this on another site, and I thought it was pretty good...

Re: Hawker's 2011 Wooden Coaster Poll

"It's neat to see how rides match up to others, but that poll doesn't hold a lot of water for me. It has it's flaws.

1) There are too many foreign coasters at the top of the poll. That's not to say that there aren't great wooden coasters outside of the U.S., but the poll is very much skewed to the rides that don't see a lot of voting riders every year.

2) The poll requires voters to rank every roller coaster they've ridden from 1-whatever, or rank them in groups - both of which are really impossible to do. I've ridden a lot of roller coasters, and it's hard for me to create even a top ten. Additionally, not everyone votes the same way.

3) People have different preferences and tastes. What makes a top 10 ride for me is not the same for everyone else.

4) The poll is very heavily influenced by TPR, let's face it. They advertise the heck out of it, and all of their minnions vote - many voting the same way. There are also a lot of Alvey brown-nosers that would follow him off of a cliff, let alone like the same rides, simply because he's ridden so many.

For example, if you're one of the 45 that voted for Twister at Grona Lund, you probably went on the TPR trip there and were influenced by general group's opinion. I find it very hard to believe that it is "really" the 14th best wooden coaster in the world.

I understand that this poll tries to account for all of these variables. While I respect the effort, you ultimately can't escape partiality. And when it comes to roller coasters, there are a lot of biases.

I guess my problem isn't so much with having the poll, it's that a lot of people accept it as gospel.

Instead of one large poll, I would much rather see what individuals would rate as their top 10 rides."


* This Post Has Been Modified *

Re: Coaster Polls Don't Work!! by RobLec RobLec Profile at 2/18/12 2:21:28 PM

Interestingly, I may be wrong on this, but I believe that both Grona Lund Twister and Wooden Warrior mentioned in Dion's OP, are two of only a few (if not the only) coasters fitted with Timberliner trains this past year.

* This Post Has Been Modified *

Re: Coaster Polls Don't Work!! by Absimilliard Absimilliard Profile at 2/18/12 4:16:13 PM

The interesting thing about the Gronalund wooden coaster is that ACE also organised a large trip to Scandinavia this summer.

One thing those parks are good at is being friendly and very good with coaster clubs. For example, when a coaster club visit Liseberg, they organise a nice party under the Balder structure, provide drinks and let the participants plant nails into the ride and write their name on it. So, considering that, its normal you will have a better than normal memory of the rides.

Re: Coaster Polls Don't Work!! by LoneStar LoneStar Profile at 2/20/12 8:21:13 PM

I just want to throw this out there:

I've never met Robb, but he does a terrific job with his website, videos, pics, and trips. He may have some brown nosers, but I'd be tempted to kiss up a little to him if I went on a trip with him. I just don't want anyone here or maybe a TPR member reading this post and think it's anti TPR. Keep up the good work Robb, but to echo everyone else - please think for yourself, create your own coaster opinions, and don't be just a band waggoner.

- Pat-O

Re: Coaster Polls Don't Work!! by beastmaster beastmaster Profile at 2/20/12 8:48:27 PM

and don't be just a band waggoner.

> - Pat-O

Is that anything like a Porter Waggoner? Or a Lyle?

Mike

Re: Coaster Polls Don't Work!! by Great_Ump Great_Ump Profile at 2/21/12 5:02:28 AM

> Coaster Polls Don't Work!! Especially Mitch's. It is
> controlled by a small group of people who can vote some
> obscure coaster on the other side of the globe that no
> one
has ridden and rank it as #1 in the world.

> Even worse, that group consists of mostly Theme Park Review
> members, who all think and act the same as their
> "leader". That site pushes the hell out of that
> poll, and it's evident in the results.

The worse part is this particular individual has publicly admitted to rigging the Hawker polls because it's so easy to take advantage of the system.

I use to be a member of TPR but until I witnessed with my own two eyes and ears some of the things he's said and done for his own personal gain making the rest of the enthusiast community look bad, I will no longer associate myself with that site.

Period.

God forbid you ever disagree with him, or you'll be banned.

Of course, I have to say that this is my OPINION so he doesn't threaten to file a lawsuit against me... it's just my funny way of looking at it.

Joe
Great_Ump
(who is a PROUD member of the Theme Park Revenue Facebook page)

* This Post Has Been Modified *

Re: Coaster Polls Don't Work!! by drachen drachen Profile at 2/21/12 11:16:36 AM
LoneStar said:

I've never met Robb, but he does a terrific job with his website, videos, pics, and trips. He may have some brown nosers, but I'd be tempted to kiss up a little to him if I went on a trip with him. I just don't want anyone here or maybe a TPR member reading this post and think it's anti TPR. Keep up the good work Robb,

I have never met Alvey either. From what I've heard, he's a pretty decent guy in person. He's just a pompous jerk online, as are his moderators, which is only one of the things that has always kept me from participating in TPR's forums.

I LOVE the 'Raw' DVD's and I'll continue to buy them as long as he's making them. The only thing I don't like is listening to them ride.

Volume 3 is particularly cool as it consists completely of now-defunct roller coasters. I applaud them for that ideal piece of preservation.

However, you couldn't pay me to watch those clowns on their 'excursion' videos.

Great_Ump said:

The worse part is this particular individual has publicly admitted to rigging the Hawker polls because it's so easy to take advantage of the system.

I use to be a member of TPR but until I witnessed with my own two eyes and ears some of the things he's said and done for his own personal gain making the rest of the enthusiast community look bad, I will no longer associate myself with that site.

Period.

As for rigging the voting, I can't really say. All I know is that many of the members vote the same way.

TPR is massive, and is probably too big for it's own good. It's created an irreverent breed of coaster enthusiast - one that parks would rather not have visit, but allow for the publicity they generate (and the money from their group events).

The thing I get a kick out of the most is that TPR members constantly make fun of ACE and it's members for doing the same exact things they do. ACE is the "old" enthusiast group. TPR is the "hip, cool" group (eyes rolling...). I think at least ACE is a bit more respectful and respectable in the industry.

I don't think this is an unfair generalization... If you're a frequent TPR contributor, you think Intamin and Gravity Group can do no wrong, and that B&M and GCI suck. The best coasters are overseas. ACE members are fat, stupid, know-nothing, and disrespectful.

Also, I've always wondered about how Alvey is able to travel so much. I have no way of knowing this, but I can't help but think that if you pay to go on one of these TPR excursions, your money is also paying for the three Alveys (and perhaps some close cronies) to go.

Maybe that's just one of the perks for creating and operating such a popular site and for putting the trips together. If the members are ok with it, that's up to them.

The site is a well-oiled machine. It's just not for me. There's just such a mix of rudeness and ignorance that it's unbearable to read sometimes.

* This post was modified at 2/21/12 12:37:45 PM *

drachen
Coaster to Park Ratio: 4.87 / Steel to Wooden Ratio: 2.57 / Wooden Coaster Percentage: 28%
Friend me on Facebook... Search Park Connoisseur
Re: Coaster Polls Don't Work!! by Great_Ump Great_Ump Profile at 2/21/12 1:48:42 PM

>TPR is massive, and is probably too big for it's own
> good.

Spam bots can grow anyone's message board forum to over 7,000 members, allegedly.

> It's created an irreverent breed of coaster
> enthusiast - one that parks would rather not have visit,
> but allow for the publicity they generate (and the money
> from their group events).

It's funny you mention this because TPR loves ripping one domestic park in particular and when they visit that one park, the park treats them no different than anyone else. The park KNOWS they do it and they dont care because so few people go to TPR for information about their park. The park is just happy to have the group sale. The park just smiles and is happy to take their money. They don't get any breaks with this particular park even though they think they do!

> The thing I get a kick out of
> the most is that TPR members constantly make fun of ACE and
> it's members for doing the same exact things they do. ACE
> is the "old" enthusiast group. TPR is the
> "hip, cool" group (eyes rolling...).

If you're 12 years old...

>I think at
> least ACE is a bit more respectful and respectable in the
> industry. I don't think this is an unfair
> generalization... If you're a frequent TPR contributor, you
> think Intamin and Gravity Group can do no wrong, and that
> B&M and GCI suck. The best coasters are overseas. ACE
> members are fat, stupid, know-nothing, and disrespectful.

Lets play follow the "leader".

> Also, I've always wondered about how Alvey is able to
> travel so much. I have no way of knowing this, but I can't
> help but think that if you pay to go on one of these TPR
> excursions, your money is also paying for the three Alveys
> (and perhaps some close cronies) to go.

*coughs*

Joe
Great_Ump

Re: Coaster Polls Don't Work!! by RobLec RobLec Profile at 2/21/12 8:01:47 PM
Count me in the "why can't we all just get along" group. I've never met Robb (well, maybe I have and just don't remember). I've been to his site but can't even recall what year that was. I reply when he posts here, and treat him as I would anyone. For all I know he may be independently wealthy and just sponsors those trips for fun. One never knows. I just wish these little feuds wouldn't get in the way of people just enjoying parks.

I suppose a big part of my attitude is that I'm not hardcore. I don't belong to the big groups because the small regional clubs are more cozy. I don't count coasters and can barely count visits to certain parks. My wife and I do this not because we love any individuals, but just because it's something we do to keep life interesting.

Re: Coaster Polls Don't Work!! by drachen drachen Profile at 2/21/12 9:05:56 PM
RobLec said:

Count me in the "why can't we all just get along" group. I've never met Robb (well, maybe I have and just don't remember). I've been to his site but can't even recall what year that was. I reply when he posts here, and treat him as I would anyone. For all I know he may be independently wealthy and just sponsors those trips for fun. One never knows. I just wish these little feuds wouldn't get in the way of people just enjoying parks.


I suppose a big part of my attitude is that I'm not hardcore. I don't belong to the big groups because the small regional clubs are more cozy. I don't count coasters and can barely count visits to certain parks. My wife and I do this not because we love any individuals, but just because it's something we do to keep life interesting.

Well said.

I don't have an opinion either way about Alvey himself. I just don't like his site, or the new breed of enthusiast it's created.

And you're right. He could be independently wealthy for all I know. Even if not, don't we all wish we could all make money riding roller coasters. Livin' the dream...

Like you, I'm not "hardcore". I belong to no clubs. I wouldn't even consider myself an enthusiast anymore, to be honest. I'm more on the industry side of things.

I'm a fan of rides and roller coasters. But, I'm an even bigger fan of the entire industry, and I'm more into following it than I am keeping track of the enthusiast world.

That's why I like this site so much. It was the first site I found back in my more "enthusiastic" days. As life has crept in over the years, I've stayed in touch. The forum participators here have always been very knowledgeable and respectful.

* This post was modified at 2/21/12 9:35:00 PM *

drachen
Coaster to Park Ratio: 4.87 / Steel to Wooden Ratio: 2.57 / Wooden Coaster Percentage: 28%
Friend me on Facebook... Search Park Connoisseur
Mitch Hawker's Poll Works Better than Other Coaster Polls by Valedc03ls at 11/20/12 3:31:36 PM
I tend to disagree with the original message. I feel that Mitch Hawker's poll works far more than any other poll in the community due to an elaborate algorithm used in making the poll (a lot more thought and effort went into this poll). The reason why more overseas roller coasters are ranked higher is not because of an influx of newer riders from our enthusiast community, but because it balances out rankings by pitting those roller coasters that have not been ridden much versus mutual rider rankings and preferences. The poll also takes into account if you have ever ridden it in your life as well as riding it within that particular polling year, which aids to help lower the bias.

However, I will say that one poll in particular lacks good quality, and that is the Golden Ticket Awards. A bland and unoriginal total points system is used based on how many people have riden it and its ranking. In this poll, less ridership equals far more points for the popular ones, and that bias is very high despite the polling from different regions. This is why you see each year being mostly the same winners, and that the polling population tends to stay stagnant.

Personally, it is not highly impossible (although it is time consuming) to rank roller coasters. I create a PPT and an Excel sheet to rank them, and it is very easy to use. I use RCDB.com or YouTube as a resource if I have trouble ranking specific ones.

About TPR, even though I never physically seen him in real life, I have heard lots about Robb Alvey, and why he is who he is today. From my understanding, he was dismissed from ACE because he broke the ACE Code of Conduct back in 2002 at Knott's Berry Farm by taking on-ride videos and pictures without permission by not going through proper channels, demanding special favors (especially during that ACE event), etc. This is why he lashes out onto ACE, which he brings it all onto himself. With all things aside, if you look at it from a neutral standpoint, whom do you trust more--a .com (commercial) site or a reputable .org (organization) site that has an honorable Code of Conduct/Ethics to guide its members?

Dave

Re: Coaster Polls Don't Work!! by mugen828 mugen828 Profile at 11/20/12 3:40:37 PM
we should do a coaster poll....FOR FUN. just us URCers.


I would like to see that :)

- mugen828
157 Coasters -- Favorite Coaster -- Nitro (SFGAdv)
117 Steel -- 40 Wood -- Home Park: SFGADv
Re: Coaster Polls Don't Work!! by chitlins73 chitlins73 Profile at 11/20/12 4:42:31 PM
Too bad something happened to the 2011 Mitch Hawker poll.There was never a steel poll done last year for some reason.Still nobody seems to know what happened??????
Re: Mitch Hawker's Poll Works Better than Other Coaster Polls by Overbanked Overbanked Profile at 11/21/12 10:53:15 AM
Valedc03ls said:

Personally, it is not highly impossible (although it is time consuming) to rank roller coasters. I create a PPT and an Excel sheet to rank them, and it is very easy to use. I use RCDB.com or YouTube as a resource if I have trouble ranking specific ones.

Coastercounter.com is a good website for ranking your coasters.

Re: Coaster Polls Don't Work!! by GoYanks34 GoYanks34 Profile at 11/21/12 11:49:14 AM
mugen828 said:

we should do a coaster poll....FOR FUN. just us URCers.



I would like to see that :)

"Like" button activated!

Jen

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