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First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro?

drachen drachen Profile

Posted:
1/16/12 at
9:31:53 AM

This is just an early-stage rumor at this point, but I'm surprised none the less. This according to Screamscape:

"2013 - New Coaster - Rumor - (1/16/12) I’m not sure how true this rumor is just yet, but a couple of e-mails were sent in over the weekend suggesting that Six Flags Great Adventure may be planning on removing BIZARRO (formerly Medusa) and putting it into the Ride Rotation program in exchange for a new B&M coaster, thought to possibly be a new X-Flight style Wing Coaster design. If this comes to pass, look for 2012 to possibly be the last season for Bizarro."

I'm a bit surprised to read this. Medusa/Bizarro is only 13 years old, and is still one of the better steel loopers out there.

It's also a ride that I really associate with Great Adventure, and one of the "Big 5" for me at the park (one of the 5 coasters that I'll gladly wait in line for - Bizarro, El Toro, Batman, Nitro, and now Green Lantern).

I fully expect to see Cedar Point and Great Adventure to add a B&M Wing Rider in 2013. I just don't picture Great Adventure as a landlocked park that needs to remove a coaster to build a new one.

If this rumor is true, it will be the second time in 2 years that they did so. But this time, they wouldn't be removing an aging, maintenance burden like GASM became. They'd be removing a very good, solid ride that is still relatively young.

Though I'm sure Bizarro would end up at another Six Flags park (Six Flags America again?), I will be very surprised and disappointed to see it leave Great Adventure.


Medusa in its earlier, non-super-villain days.

Screamscape - Great Adventure

Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by Geauga_Dog Geauga_Dog Profile at 1/16/12 1:14:23 PM

That would be a shock to see Medusa/Bizarro leave however GAdv seems to have slim pickings as to what they could consider putting in the ride rotation program. I'm sure many would want Dark Knight gone but that's not going to happpen.

Plus within the park Bizarro is somewhat off the beaten path being way back in Frontier Adventures. Could they remove it to not only add a new ride but maybe expand that entire section?

My vote goes to SFStL who needs a big multi-looper like Bizarro. Their only sit down looper is a Vekoma and they haven't had a new large coaster in a long while.

G-Dog (who has Medusa/Bizarro as his favorite floorless)

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Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by MABrider MABrider Profile at 1/16/12 1:30:21 PM

From the two posts above where two things mentiond caught my eye...

1. Mayhaps a removal of Bizarro would be due to the fact that there really isn't ever a long wait. At least for me, and I admit I don't go there in "full summer." Parks sometimes do what seems like nutty things to us in order to change the flow of people on pathways, to balance out the place in general.
That's my take on it, industry expert I am not!

2. I would hate to see Bizarro go, it's one of my favorite coasters of all time.* My enjoyment is only enhanced because I usually don't have to wait!

* but they ruined the last row with its rebranding

Mike B.

Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by alpengeistno3 at 1/16/12 4:24:16 PM

Well, no way it could be "coming to America", lol. The footprint is way to large, even if they were to remove a ride.

Another neglected park (someone brought up St Louis which sounds like a perfect fit to me, too) would be more likely.

It seems that the "new" Six Flags cap ex plan is that for a park to get a new ride, they have to give up one. SFGram seems have done that for their wing rider. MM gave up Deja Vu for Green Lantern (or possibly for a future larger installation.)

I don't know how much dismantling a perfectly functional coaster to ship to another park saves over just getting one new. Cedar Fair seems to be getting into the same trend. I love Bizarro as a favorite floorless, too, but wouldn't mind seeing a new B&M in its spot. It will kind of hurt Gradv's portfolio as B&M's "unofficial" showcase to no longer have a floorless.

Paul

Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by drachen drachen Profile at 1/16/12 6:37:28 PM

> 1. Mayhaps a removal of Bizarro would be due to the fact
> that there really isn't ever a long wait. At least for me,
> and I admit I don't go there in "full summer."

I will agree that it's off the beaten path a bit, but I wouldn't say that the short waits are from a lack of people wanting to ride it. The ride is a people eater with three 30 passenger trains on a medium-length circuit, which, like you, is one of the many reasons I love the ride.

> * but they ruined the last row with its rebranding

So true (and loud).

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Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by Overbanked Overbanked Profile at 1/16/12 7:02:55 PM

I don't like anything about this, hopefully Bizarro won't be going anywhere. Whatta dumb decision that would be to remove a quality Beemer like Bizarro. What's up with that dumb "Ride exchange program?" Hey, I got better idea, it's called a road trip, or roundtrip plane ticket! No wonder why so many parks don't have any identity; Most SF parks are lacking identity as it is! Like I said, I don't like anything about this, from SF's 'Ride exchange program' to the Bizarro removal rumor; Hopefully some sense will get through the heads of SF's brass, and Bizarro will be staying put at SFGAvd.

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Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by drachen drachen Profile at 1/16/12 7:06:28 PM

> Well, no way it could be "coming to America",
> lol. The footprint is way to large, even if they were to
> remove a ride.

Looking at Google Earth, don't you think SFA has more than enough room? When I think of SFA, I think of wide open, undeveloped spaces. There looks to be room behind ROAR, Superman, and Batwing, or even up towards the train station. I understand utilities would need to be run to wherever the coaster ended up, but that would all be part of a park expansion anyway.

> Another neglected park (someone brought up St Louis which
> sounds like a perfect fit to me, too) would be more likely.

That's a good fit too, but they have less undeveloped land, don't you think?

> MM
> gave up Deja Vu for Green Lantern (or possibly for a future
> larger installation.)

Hey, maybe Magic Mountain will get Bizarro...

> I don't know how much dismantling a perfectly functional
> coaster to ship to another park saves over just getting one
> new. Cedar Fair seems to be getting into the same trend.

It saves a ton of money. $0 in design costs. Cost of steel/materials is either $0 or pennies on the dollar, depending on the arrangement between parks or how the parent company accounts for things. Sometimes deconstruction is paid for. You're on the hook for shipping and reconstruction, two things you have to pay for on a new ride anyway.

Truth is, I'd rather see a ride relocated than completely removed.

> I
> love Bizarro as a favorite floorless, too, but wouldn't
> mind seeing a new B&M in its spot. It will kind of hurt
> Gradv's portfolio as B&M's "unofficial" showcase
> to no longer have a floorless.

I know there was thread dedicated to this last year. I think it's pretty cool that Great Adventure has so many B&M coasters. I'd love to visit one park and experience everything the best coaster design company in the world has to offer.

I hope they keep Bizarro, add their wing rider next year, and add a dive machine after that.

Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by Geauga_Dog Geauga_Dog Profile at 1/16/12 7:47:23 PM

> Looking at Google Earth, don't you think SFA has more than
> enough room?

Don't count on it. They are getting Apocolypse and I don't forsee back to back coasters there.

> That's a good fit too, but they have less undeveloped land,
> don't you think?

They can always remove Ninja to make room or use the area just beyond Tidal Wave (I think it's the park's graveyard).

> Hey, maybe Magic Mountain will get Bizarro...

Actually instead of possibly removing Bizarro at GAdv Magic Mountain should have offered Scream for a ride rotation candidate over Deja Vu.

Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by alpengeistno3 at 1/16/12 8:04:28 PM

> Well, no way it could be "coming to America",
> lol. The footprint is way to large, even if they were to
> remove a ride.

> Looking at Google Earth, don't you think SFA has more than
> enough room? When I think of SFA, I think of wide open,
> undeveloped spaces. There looks to be room behind ROAR,
> Superman, and Batwing, or even up towards the train
> station. I understand utilities would need to be run to
> wherever the coaster ended up, but that would all be part
> of a park expansion anyway.

Lots of room back there, yes, but there are three problems.

1. That area is part of the barrier between the residential neighborhoods and the park. I seriously doubt the park will be allowed to touch anything beyond its current footprint.

2. The current pathways do not leave any way to loop the area into the parks flow. If they put a ride back behind Roar, they would have to either remove the rapids ride or build a bridge over it or put a whole lot of tunnels under Roar/Apocalypse (not sure how that will fit in, but there was only a small path back there.

3. Bizarro has a HUGE triangle shaped footprint from the immelmann to the cobra roll to the interlocking corks. No way that would fit between Mind Eraser and Superman, even if SFA got the approval. A more compact design like NE's Dark Knight would be a far better fit.
> Another neglected park (someone brought up St Louis which
> sounds like a perfect fit to me, too) would be more likely.

> That's a good fit too, but they have less undeveloped land,
> don't you think?

I've never been, so I don't know, but it would fit their line-up.

> MM
> gave up Deja Vu for Green Lantern (or possibly for a future
> larger installation.)

> Hey, maybe Magic Mountain will get Bizarro...

Now that would be ironic. Maybe they could build it next to Scream ala Animal Kingdom's Primeval Whirl, lol!!

> I don't know how much dismantling a perfectly functional
> coaster to ship to another park saves over just getting one
> new. Cedar Fair seems to be getting into the same trend.

> It saves a ton of money. $0 in design costs. Cost of
> steel/materials is either $0 or pennies on the dollar,
> depending on the arrangement between parks or how the
> parent company accounts for things. Sometimes
> deconstruction is paid for. You're on the hook for shipping
> and reconstruction, two things you have to pay for on a new
> ride anyway.

How do you figure getting a crew to deconstruct a ride that was erected as a "permanent" attraction could be covered? You essentially have to reverse everything that you did to erect it in the first place, with the added difficulty of taking it apart in a way that will not damage it so you can erect it again. Not a problem on the German Fair circuit as those rides were designed for easy assembly/disassembly, but a permanent-site attraction that hasn't been disassembled in 13 years has got to be a little stiff, requiring more man-hours, ie, more $$$.

Shipping could also be an issue, depending how far you have to send it. A cross country trip for 30-50 trucks of roller coaster can't be a cheap undertaking, new or used. Plus, the "giving" has to re-purpose the land for something. I guess the cost is added to the cost of the new attraction, which would not require cutting trees, but removing footers for a large ride like Bizarro is probably just as labor intensive as cutting down some trees in a similar sized site.

I hope they keep Bizarro, add their wing rider next year,
> and add a dive machine after that.

Best case scenario, but if a large coaster in a wide open area had to go, I'd rather it be Bizarro than say Nitro or El Toro, or building a micro version in order to squeeze into an existing site. Maybe they could scrap the whole Gotham city area (who needs a Batman, let alone 2 of them nowadays!)

Paul

*I forgot. If moving Bizarro to another park is the only way to have the god-awful sound system removed and the back row restored, I am willing to make the sacrifice for the good of the entire coaster community :)

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Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by drachen drachen Profile at 1/16/12 10:15:23 PM

> Lots of room back there, yes, but there are three problems.

I'm not as familiar with the politics and zoning in Largo as you may be. It just seems to me that the park has a lot of room for expansion and development. Plus, I wouldn't mind seeing this coaster stay close to home, if indeed it is leaving Great Adventure.

> Hey, maybe Magic Mountain will get Bizarro...

> Now that would be ironic. Maybe they could build it next to
> Scream ala Animal Kingdom's Primeval Whirl, lol!!

That's exactly what I had in mind. Old Six Flags may have considered it... New Six Flags seems to have their whits more about them.

> How do you figure getting a crew to deconstruct a ride that
> was erected as a "permanent" attraction could be
> covered? You essentially have to reverse everything that
> you did to erect it in the first place, with the added
> difficulty of taking it apart in a way that will not damage
> it so you can erect it again.

Sometimes, when a park is looking to sell a coaster, they agree to pay for the deconstruction. That way all the new park needs to do is "pick it up". I would imagine in this case, that the new Six Flags park would not have to pay for the deconstruction of this ride.

> Shipping could also be an issue, depending how far you have
> to send it. A cross country trip for 30-50 trucks of roller
> coaster can't be a cheap undertaking, new or used.

Definitely not cheap. But again, the park pays for the shipping of a new coaster too.

> Plus,
> the "giving" has to re-purpose the land for
> something. I guess the cost is added to the cost of the new
> attraction, which would not require cutting trees, but
> removing footers for a large ride like Bizarro is probably
> just as labor intensive as cutting down some trees in a
> similar sized site.

Land prep is a large part of the cost of a new coaster. But, it depends on the site itself. I would estimate over half of Skyrush's $25 million price is going to site prep. Obviously, placing a used coaster on such a site wouldn't make much sense. But putting one on a flat parcel, with less prep-work, would.

> I hope they keep Bizarro, add their wing rider next year,
> and add a dive machine after that.

> Best case scenario, but if a large coaster in a wide open
> area had to go, I'd rather it be Bizarro than say Nitro or
> El Toro, or building a micro version in order to squeeze
> into an existing site. Maybe they could scrap the whole
> Gotham city area (who needs a Batman, let alone 2 of them
> nowadays!)

I'd hate to see Batman removed. Conversely, there is a lot of room (dead space) in the Gotham city area of the park to add a steel coaster. Use Chiller's and Freefall's footprints to build a Batman themed wing rider (another Batwing?). Sounds good to me.

Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by drachen drachen Profile at 1/16/12 10:21:36 PM

> Don't count on it. They are getting Apocolypse and I don't
> forsee back to back coasters there.

Probably not. But getting two used coasters in back to back years would start to make up for a decade of not receiving a new coaster at all.

> Actually instead of possibly removing Bizarro at GAdv Magic
> Mountain should have offered Scream for a ride rotation
> candidate over Deja Vu.

Parking lot or not, I actually thought Scream! was a lot of fun. Having ridden Medusa a number of times already, riding the same ride, but in a mirror image, was pretty neat. Magic Mountain needs it to eat up line-waiters too.

Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by alpengeistno3 at 1/17/12 12:54:22 AM

> How do you figure getting a crew to deconstruct a ride that
> was erected as a "permanent" attraction could be
> covered? You essentially have to reverse everything that
> you did to erect it in the first place, with the added
> difficulty of taking it apart in a way that will not damage
> it so you can erect it again.

> Sometimes, when a park is looking to sell a coaster, they
> agree to pay for the deconstruction. That way all the new
> park needs to do is "pick it up". I would imagine
> in this case, that the new Six Flags park would not have to
> pay for the deconstruction of this ride.

Still doesn't equal "$0". Someone has to foot the bill and since it is an in-chain move, a Six Flags park is still paying. Cheaper than designing a new ride, but a clone could be very close to the same price.

> Shipping could also be an issue, depending how far you have
> to send it. A cross country trip for 30-50 trucks of roller
> coaster can't be a cheap undertaking, new or used.

> Definitely not cheap. But again, the park pays for the
> shipping of a new coaster too.

So let's say, Magic Mountain, for instance, was paying the bill. How is it cheaper FOR THEM to get Bizarro from Gradv as opposed to a clone from a B&M plant near LA?

*another East Coast park would make more sense as I assume shipping costs are figured by the mile. St. Louis isn't a short drive from Jersey and is probably closer to the Ohio B&M plant.

> Plus,
> the "giving" has to re-purpose the land for
> something. I guess the cost is added to the cost of the new
> attraction, which would not require cutting trees, but
> removing footers for a large ride like Bizarro is probably
> just as labor intensive as cutting down some trees in a
> similar sized site.

> Land prep is a large part of the cost of a new coaster.
> But, it depends on the site itself. I would estimate over
> half of Skyrush's $25 million price is going to site prep.
> Obviously, placing a used coaster on such a site wouldn't
> make much sense. But putting one on a flat parcel, with
> less prep-work, would.

But, I would think prepping "natural" land would be easier. In the case of an existing ride, you have to dig up all the old footers (some as deep at 40-50 ft in the ground), re-escavate the land (you have to tear everything up to get the footers out) and allow the ground to settle before you can put in new footers. Other than possibly being able to repurpose the utilities from reusing the station house, there isn't much savings to be had in the land prep.

> I'd hate to see Batman removed. Conversely, there is a lot
> of room (dead space) in the Gotham city area of the park to
> add a steel coaster. Use Chiller's and Freefall's
> footprints to build a Batman themed wing rider (another
> Batwing?). Sounds good to me.

Assuming they want to get rid of an older ride, Bizarro has the largest footprint in the park (besides Nitro). I can only assume that is the reason it was chosen. Sure, they could squeeze a puny version of whatever into Dark Knight's spot (Chiller and Freefall are long gone), but this would be the 2nd time they had a chance to use that spot and from all looks of it, they are declining.

If they do build another Batwing, Batman has to go. They have too many Batman themed rides as it is (and I'd be willing to trade Batman to keep Bizarro.)

The only way I see that the ride rotation program is saving Six Flags money is if the "giving" park is determined to get rid of an attraction in order to build a new one and the old one would be destined for the scrap heap if not bought. I think that is why the 80's program ended. Six Flags wound up buying new rides and installing them in undeveloped locations despite moving rides, so it saved them nothing in the end.

Paul

Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by frontrow frontrow Profile at 1/17/12 1:17:17 PM

I really hope this rumor isn't true. Bizarro is one of Great Adventure's signature coasters. I look at this as Cedar Point removing Raptor. It's a fantastic coaster. If they do remove it, how much better can the new installation be? Besides in 2009 Great Adventure just spent the money to transform Medusa into Bizarro. I just think it would be very foolish to remove a coaster that most people enjoy and that is reliable. When non enthusiast friends inquire what park to visit, besides Cedar Point, Great Adventure is my answer. Bizarro is one reason why I recommend that park.

Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by drachen drachen Profile at 1/17/12 1:36:14 PM

> Sometimes, when a park is looking to sell a coaster, they
> agree to pay for the deconstruction. That way all the new
> park needs to do is "pick it up". I would imagine
> in this case, that the new Six Flags park would not have to
> pay for the deconstruction of this ride.

> Still doesn't equal "$0". Someone has to foot the
> bill and since it is an in-chain move, a Six Flags park is
> still paying.

Think of it this way, with two types of coaster moves.

RCDB lists Medusa as costing $15 million in 1999.

Let's say that Great Adventure just wants to remove Bizarro because its footprint is the most feasible spot for a new coaster.

Scenario 1: Outside buyer

They find that Knoebels wants to buy it from them. Great Adventure would likely agree to deconstruct the ride, (as they are grateful to just have a buyer - a used coaster is a tough thing to sell). They have to demo it anyway, even if they can't sell it.

Knoebels would pay for the coaster parts, at a much cheaper price than the current cost of steel track. They would also likely pay to ship it from Jackson to Elysburg, and of course pay for site prep and construction. All told, they would have saved a lot of money, when compared to buying a new floorless coaster from B&M. They might pay half of that original price tag.

Scenario 2: Move within a Parent Company

This will depend on how the parent company accounts for such things. It could be done on a park to park basis like above, or corporate could pay for the move. Likely it's a bit of both.

If Six Flags corporate decides that they want to move Bizarro to the St. Louis park, there might be no monetary exchange for the coaster itself. Great Adventure might pay for demo, and St. Louis might pay for construction. Still a major savings for the new owner and nowhere near the original $15 million price tag.

> Cheaper than designing a new ride, but a
> clone could be very close to the same price.

Except for the cost of new steel track, which is over $1000 per foot. New trains aren't cheap either.

> So let's say, Magic Mountain, for instance, was paying the
> bill. How is it cheaper FOR THEM to get Bizarro from Gradv
> as opposed to a clone from a B&M plant near LA?

Well, sure. But distance to ship would certainly play a part in a park's decision to buy a used ride in the first place.

> But, I would think prepping "natural" land would
> be easier. In the case of an existing ride, you have to dig
> up all the old footers (some as deep at 40-50 ft in the
> ground), re-escavate the land (you have to tear everything
> up to get the footers out) and allow the ground to settle
> before you can put in new footers. Other than possibly
> being able to repurpose the utilities from reusing the
> station house, there isn't much savings to be had in the
> land prep.

Agreed. But the savings is on the coaster itself. The savings have to be significant, or else why would a coaster ever get moved?

> Assuming they want to get rid of an older ride, Bizarro has
> the largest footprint in the park (besides Nitro). I can
> only assume that is the reason it was chosen. Sure, they
> could squeeze a puny version of whatever into Dark Knight's
> spot (Chiller and Freefall are long gone), but this would
> be the 2nd time they had a chance to use that spot and from
> all looks of it, they are declining.

Right, if this rumor is true, it must mean that SFGAdv doesn't want to build a coaster in Gotham. I think that it would be a great spot for a new coaster.

> If they do build another Batwing, Batman has to go. They
> have too many Batman themed rides as it is (and I'd be
> willing to trade Batman to keep Bizarro.)

Batman has such a small footprint, I don't think it's going anywhere. I couldn't really say which ride I like better. I really wouldn't mind seeing a wing rider paired up next to Batman. As mentioned before, I don't want Bizarro going anywhere.

Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by Tomes at 1/17/12 8:29:06 PM

Argghhh... I just want to add onto the hatered against this supposed move...

I 100% agree with you guys, and that's a good point FrontRow! It would be like CP removing Raptor.. It's not the newest or the most innovative, but it's one of the signature rides! Unless a new ride would immediately crush Bizzaro/Medusa with its stats in the "big 3" categories (heignt, speed AND number of inversions), it would not be perceived well by the public.

Remember SFGAdv used to be the amusement park with the most inversions in the world for many years? What has happened to that? Plus Medusa is the 1st ever floorless coaster! What a shame to lose it, especially after all the renovation it has undergone.

And if anyone from six flags corprate would read this I'd tell them: "What the EFF is up with the "rotation program"?! I didn't realize Roller coasters are portable! They, um, have been bolted to the ground using concrete footers!!!" That concept is just so bewildering to me. I mean, Ok, Deja Vus - MAYBE acceptable. But a ~4000' long massive roller coaster just "rotating" around Six Flags parks?! GOD D*** that's stupid! Let's rotate Kingda Ka around too so that everyone can enjoy it. And El Toro. Heck, lets just trade all the roller coasters between STL and SFGADV... I'd be ok with it. lol.

Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by Great_Ump Great_Ump Profile at 1/17/12 9:22:22 PM

> I don't know how much dismantling a perfectly functional
> coaster to ship to another park saves over just getting one
> new. Cedar Fair seems to be getting into the same trend. I
> love Bizarro as a favorite floorless, too, but wouldn't
> mind seeing a new B&M in its spot. It will kind of hurt
> Gradv's portfolio as B&M's "unofficial" showcase
> to no longer have a floorless.

At the expense of an entire market (Cleveland Ohio).

Most of, not all, of CP's relocated rides were a result from the abrupt closing of Geauga Lake in 2007.

Other than the kiddie coasters that get swapped around, the only ride that immediately comes to mind for me for CP's "rotation" is Dorney's new Inverted Vekoma Boomerang ala Great America.

Re: Bizarro to SFA

It's simply not coming to SFA.

The success of Apocylapse (sp?) this season is going to determine whether or not SF Inc. continues to invest in this park.

Attendance numbers at SFA have fallen below 700,000 a season. The park use to attract close to one million visitors immediately following the SF rebranding 1999-2001.

Contrary to the wild internet rumors for the past decade, I can say with 100% certainty that SFA was never up for sale. I can also say with 100% certainty that whatever happens with Apocylapse this year good or bad could change that.

This ride, albeit an old used coaster, is really do or die for SFA.

Re: SFA Zoning

SFA cannot construct anything less than 1000' from their parameter. The park sits on 550 acres with only about 150 acres currently developed.

Much of the land is unable to be developed because of watershed regulations. There is a small stream that runs under the wooden bridge heading towards Hall Manor in the park's main path that has caused a lot of headaches over the years.

Also, SFA does NOT have to get new permits to install new rides so long as they are place the new ride within a space that has already been approved for a ride.

This is the case for Apocolypse. Since Apoc is taking up the land that use to house Seacoaster, the park did not need a new permit to install the coaster.

Don't misunderstand. The park still has to get building permits and the usual permits in order to do the electrical, plumbing, etc. They don't need the county's approval or have to go to a hearing to have the ride approved.

Hope that helps.

Joe
Great_Ump

Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by looper77 at 1/18/12 3:02:46 AM

I wish I could be as disappointed as everyone else. I tend to skip Medusa, um Bizarro, on my trips to SFGA. Not because it's out of the way but because it's not worth the walk over there. I never really cared for Bizarro or it's mirror Scream. I found both to be boring, forceless rides, like riding in a rocking chair.

I do like Medusa West though...

Anyway, I would be excited to see a B&M Wing Rider come to SFGA. Six Flags seems to have forgotten about that side of the park anyway. It needs more than just a good coaster, the area around it is pretty dead. They need to add some flats as well.

Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by beastmaster beastmaster Profile at 1/18/12 7:15:38 AM

> Anyway, I would be excited to see a B&M Wing Rider come to
> SFGA. Six Flags seems to have forgotten about that side of
> the park anyway. It needs more than just a good coaster,
> the area around it is pretty dead. They need to add some
> flats as well.

I have no idea how lucrative (or not) their concert business is, but removal of the Arena would open some nice space to allow for not only the rumored Wing Rider, but a few flats and a decent restaurant.

Mike

Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by GoYanks34 GoYanks34 Profile at 1/18/12 11:06:09 AM

NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
I will lose my mind if they even think of moving Medusa. It is by far the best floorless out there and one of my favorites in the park. This better be a really bad rumor.

Jen

Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by Great_Ump Great_Ump Profile at 1/18/12 2:29:21 PM

> NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
> I will lose my mind if they even think of moving Medusa. It
> is by far the best floorless out there and one of my
> favorites in the park. This better be a really bad rumor.

> Jen

This is getting scary.

I agree with this statement too.

Medusa is the best of the floorless' that I've been on (Dominator, Kraken, SFNE's, Hydra).

Hey Jen, want to go out on a date?

Joe
Great_Ump

Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by beastmaster beastmaster Profile at 1/18/12 2:32:16 PM

> Hey Jen, want to go out on a date?

No shared churros, though. And no Scara's ice, Jen!!!

Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by GoYanks34 GoYanks34 Profile at 1/18/12 5:37:35 PM

> NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
> I will lose my mind if they even think of moving Medusa. It
> is by far the best floorless out there and one of my
> favorites in the park. This better be a really bad rumor.

> Jen

> This is getting scary.

> I agree with this statement too.

> Medusa is the best of the floorless' that I've been on
> (Dominator, Kraken, SFNE's, Hydra).

> Hey Jen, want to go out on a date?

> Joe
> Great_Ump

LMAO! Sure, wanna go ride Medusa? LOL!

Jen

Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by GoYanks34 GoYanks34 Profile at 1/18/12 5:40:49 PM

> Hey Jen, want to go out on a date?

> No shared churros, though. And no Scara's ice, Jen!!!

You know you're the only man I'll share my churro's with and it's too cold for Italian Ices! 8~)

Jen

Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by drachen drachen Profile at 1/18/12 5:49:18 PM

Update from Screamscape today:

"(1/18/12) While there has been a mad rush to spread the word that Bizarro may be leaving SFGAdv after this season, keep in mind that this has not been confirmed at all… not even by me, or my sources. So far there have been just as many reports coming in to say that the Bizarro story is bogus as there were saying that it was leaving, which kind of throws the whole issue into a grey zone. That said, no one seems to be able or willing to confirm or deny this report 100%. So perhaps it is still something just being considered, and not locked in just yet…"

So, it's up in the air. I hope those saying it's bogus are telling the truth. Either way, I'll be sure to ride it a few times this spring/summer, just in case.

For the record, I would rank Bizarro behind Dominator and Medusa West. It gets blurry for me at that point. I've enjoyed every B&M floorless coaster I've ridden, Bizarro included. It may not be as forceful as Kumba (my favorite B&M sit-down), but it is a very fun looper.

Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by beastmaster beastmaster Profile at 1/18/12 6:57:02 PM

> Hey Jen, want to go out on a date?

> No shared churros, though. And no Scara's ice, Jen!!!

> You know you're the only man I'll share my churro's with
> and it's too cold for Italian Ices! 8~)

> Jen

OK, then you can go out with Joe. But remember this..it's NEVER too cold for an Italian Ice..if you can get one.

Mike

Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by beastmaster beastmaster Profile at 1/18/12 7:07:08 PM

>> For the record, I would rank Bizarro behind Dominator and
> Medusa West. It gets blurry for me at that point. I've
> enjoyed every B&M floorless coaster I've ridden, Bizarro
> included. It may not be as forceful as Kumba (my favorite
> B&M sit-down), but it is a very fun looper.

I had dropped Bizarro below Dominator after the re-do, but my mostly excellent rides on the CFKAM the last two years have it about even between the two. Not sure how many other B&M floorless rides I've been on (Hydra, SFNE's DK, ...??) While I've come to like Hydra a bit, it's a far drop-off from Biz and Dom.

Mike

Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by alpengeistno3 at 1/18/12 9:04:44 PM

> Remember SFGAdv used to be the amusement park with the most
> inversions in the world for many years? What has happened
> to that?

El Toro and Dark Knight happened (one was a good move and the other, well, we've been down that road many times before.)

> And if anyone from six flags corprate would read this I'd
> tell them: "What the EFF is up with the "rotation
> program"?! I didn't realize Roller coasters are
> portable! They, um, have been bolted to the ground using
> concrete footers!!!" That concept is just so
> bewildering to me. I mean, Ok, Deja Vus - MAYBE acceptable.
> But a ~4000' long massive roller coaster just
> "rotating" around Six Flags parks?! GOD D***
> that's stupid! Let's rotate Kingda Ka around too so that
> everyone can enjoy it. And El Toro. Heck, lets just trade
> all the roller coasters between STL and SFGADV... I'd be ok
> with it. lol.

Now that we agree on. Moving small rides like Invertigos, shuttle loops, even a small stand up like Iron Wolf are cheap. Moving something as huge as Bizarro just doesn't seem to add up to me. I suppose Chang/Green Lantern was an exception as another fairly large ride, but it was in storage, destined to be moved anyway. An operating ride like Bizarro just doesn't seem feasable for "just the heck of it."

Maybe this whole rumor will go the way of the FOF to Carowinds rumor back in '06.

Paul

Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by Great_Ump Great_Ump Profile at 1/19/12 2:11:26 AM

> Hey Jen, want to go out on a date?

> No shared churros, though. And no Scara's ice, Jen!!!

> You know you're the only man I'll share my churro's with
> and it's too cold for Italian Ices! 8~)

> Jen

> OK, then you can go out with Joe. But remember this..it's
> NEVER too cold for an Italian Ice..if you can get one.

> Mike

No worries Mike, Jen doesn't have the right "plumbing" for me.

Joe
Great_Ump

Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by Cyclone_Phil Cyclone_Phil Profile at 1/20/12 11:48:51 PM

Whoa, what on earth did I miss here? I sure hope that is a rumor. I agree that the location isn't great and perhaps SFGAdv would be 'overstocked' with coasters and need to move one to gain another.

However, as everyone stated, it makes no sense to move such a reliable coaster that just got a makeover a few years ago.

If the park really needed to make space for that wing rider, I don't understand why they can't build on the Batman side of the park. If 'space' is a reason, I'd rather Batman the ride be moved in favor of the wing rider [obviously Dark Krap won't be moved and I'm not going to go further about that ride].

Since this is all just a rumor and the idea is to move Bizzaro out, wouldn't it be crazy if BGE were to buy that coaster [or would it be too big to fit anywhere in that park]?

On a Six Flags related note, not sure if anyone cares, but I found it interesting the stock price [trades on the NYSE] has been going up steadily [$40~] since it hit its low in October [$25]. I guess I shoulda bought a few stocks. Damn :)

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Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by mugen828 mugen828 Profile at 1/27/12 1:41:27 PM

Whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT THE HELL?! How did I not see this thread before.

Oh yeah...I was in Sweden lol.

ANYWAY, this rumor (hopefully) is bull! I hateeeeeeeeee Bizzaro, but I love Medusa. So when the sound isn't working it's a great coaster. I hate the paint job but hey, the ride is decent. I love going out to that section of the park sometimes for a good 3 rides without having to move from my seat! It's also a great ride for some people who don't like the super intense ones like Nitro.

Great adventure has more than enough room at other locations *cough* thestupidjetskistadium *cough* of the park.

I would love to see them get small coaster like the vertical lift ones like...

Wicked @ Lagoon in Utah : http://www.rcdb.com/3534.htm or Untamed @ Canobie Lake Park : http://www.rcdb.com/9517.htm

Or rage, saw the ride, or Dare Devil Dive. Something small, that doesn't break the bank. These eurofighters cost like 10-15 million at the most!

The sad part is...I could see this rumor being true...Six Flags always makes those decisions where you seriously scratch your head...Bizarro doesn't attract a lot of people, and although to us super fans that is a pro, the Six Flags corporation see's it as a con.

I feel like it's the location that is holding the coaster back from getting more riders. Superman would not get as many riders if it was in the same location as Bizarro, neither would the Green Lantern.

I hope it stays, but I wouldn't be crying if they replaced it with a wing rider or dive machine. They SHOULD put Bizarro back to how it was....Medusa!

- mugen 828

Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by beastmaster beastmaster Profile at 1/27/12 4:07:23 PM

I love going out to that section of the
> park sometimes for a good 3 rides without having to move
> from my seat! It's also a great ride for some people who
> don't like the super intense ones like Nitro.

"Intense" is a word that means different things to different riders. I consider Bizarro quite a bit more intense than Nitro, although I like Nitro better. The gap between the two is nearly as wide as the one between Toro and Nitro for supremacy (in my book) at the park.

Mike

Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by drachen drachen Profile at 1/27/12 6:03:41 PM

> Wicked @ Lagoon in Utah : Or rage, saw the ride, or Dare
> Devil Dive. Something small, that doesn't break the bank.
> These eurofighters cost like 10-15 million at the most!

I'd love to see one of these multi-loopers closer to home. They look like they are smooth and are a ton of fun. They are very innovative with their inversions too, which I think is great.

But, ultimately SFoG paid over $9 million for Dare Devil Dive. I just think a park as big as Great Adventure actually gets more bang for their buck with a large B&M or Intamin.

I'm sure Dare Devil Dive is a nice ride, and a similar ride would be a great fit at any park, but it's not the head-turner that Great Adventure normally builds and needs in this market. A large wing-rider or dive machine is.

> I hope it stays, but I wouldn't be crying if they replaced
> it with a wing rider or dive machine.

I'm excited for this rush of wing riders that this country is about to experience. They look like phenomenal rides, and the trains look very comfortable.

I plan on getting to Great America to ride X-Flight this spring. I think it looks much better than Wild Eagle.

But if I were to find out that Great Adventure was getting a dive machine next year instead of a wing-rider, I'd be very happy. But with Kingda Ka already in place, I don't know how likely another vertical drop coaster would be.

Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by Overbanked Overbanked Profile at 1/28/12 11:14:50 AM

> I'd love to see one of these multi-loopers closer to home.
> They look like they are smooth and are a ton of fun. They
> are very innovative with their inversions too, which I
> think is great.

> But, ultimately SFoG paid over $9 million for Dare Devil
> Dive. I just think a park as big as Great Adventure
> actually gets more bang for their buck with a large B&M or
> Intamin.

You mentioned the correct 'smooth' Eurofighter with it's lap bars, opposed to just about every other Eurofighter with those headbangy OTHR's. Remember SFOG is not exactly Lil Tikes Land, that's a very large theme park, and like SFGAvd, it's has a good number of Beemers.

Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by drachen drachen Profile at 1/28/12 12:17:20 PM

> You mentioned the correct 'smooth' Eurofighter with it's
> lap bars, opposed to just about every other Eurofighter
> with those headbangy OTHR's.

I've only ridden Mystery Mine, and I didn't find it that bad. I do agree that a multi looper with only a lap-bar is very intriguing.

> Remember SFOG is not exactly
> Lil Tikes Land, that's a very large theme park, and like
> SFGAvd, it's has a good number of Beemers.

I understand that SFoG is a very larg park, and it has one of the best coaster collections, but it not in the same boat as Great Adventure.

Up this way, Great Adventure has to compete with Dorney, Hersheypark, Knoebels, and Morey's. It needs marquee attractions to attract a much larger market.

SFoG may get some competition from Carowinds and maybe even Wild Adventures or the Florida parks. But essentially, they have a large region to themselves. They were an ideal park for such a ride, similar to other Six Flags parks like Texas, St. Louis, Marine World, and even Six Flags America, which doesn't seem to want to compete with anyone.

Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by GoYanks34 GoYanks34 Profile at 1/28/12 9:19:54 PM

They SHOULD put
> Bizarro back to how it was....Medusa!

Amen to that!

Jen

Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by alpengeistno3 at 1/29/12 6:17:20 PM

> They SHOULD put
> Bizarro back to how it was....Medusa!

> Amen to that!

> Jen

Seconded (or thirded, who's counting anyway:)

The only thing more bizarre than Medusa in the "old west" area of the park was Bizarro in the "old west" area.

Paul

Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by beastmaster beastmaster Profile at 1/29/12 8:44:07 PM

>> The only thing more bizarre than Medusa in the "old
> west" area of the park was Bizarro in the "old
> west" area.

> Paul

..to say nothing of the sign that says "Medusa Mining Company." What that has to do with Bizarro, I guess we'll never know..although, that is kind of "Bizarro" in itself.

Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by alpengeistno3 at 1/30/12 2:00:48 AM

The whole idea was bizarre from the beginning. Should have made Supes Bizarro like New England did and left Medusa alone.

Paul

Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by Overbanked Overbanked Profile at 1/30/12 9:14:11 AM

I must admit, that "Medusa Mine Company" sign felt very outta place; Rugged Western theme meets Greek Mythological she-devil was very 'bizarre' to say the least; I mean, does it get any more weird? The current Bizarro theme, I guess is fitting as it only adds to the weirdness.

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Re: First Scream Machine, Now Bizarro? by Cyclone_Phil Cyclone_Phil Profile at 1/30/12 10:04:28 PM

totally agreed. Medusa does not scream 'western'. If they were going to call it Medusa, give it a greek theme or else give it a different name entirely.