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Ultimate Rollercoaster > Discussion Forums > Roller Coasters, Parks & Attractions > What US Park could have gone for the inversion record?

What US Park could have gone for the inversion record?

alpengeistno3

Posted:
10/25/11 at
9:36:42 PM

I didn't want to hijack Chris' tunnel thread (we all know how important tunnels are to his coaster experience, lol), so I figured I would take the small discussion we were having to a new thread.

Phil brought up Dominator. I think KD did such a great job making Dominator seem like it was there from the beginning that we forget that the ride was moved from a "crowded" corner of Geagua Lake with a lake on the lift side. The ride has enough height for more (at 161 ft, it is the 2nd tallest floorless B&M made), but between the skycoaster, Serial Thriller, RWB, and the aforementioned lake, there was little GL could have done with the ride beyond the 5 inversions they managed to squeeze in.

I think the ultimate "wasted" opportunity was at Dorney when they built Hydra. They managed to get 7 inversions out of a ride with a lift as tall the the Batmen. Imagine if Dorney didn't have the Township breathing down their neck and used that hillside to create an 11 inversion B&M masterpiece? Putting the station at the lower end of the hill could have done it with no problem.

Paul

PS What was the last custom multi-inversion coaster installed in the US? I consider Patriot and Scream clones myself and even those were more than 5 years ago.

Re: What US Park could have gone for the inversion record? by Overbanked Overbanked Profile at 10/25/11 10:36:44 PM

LOL at the first paragraph.

I'm not sure about which US park could have got the inversion record (I'm kinda confused about that question) but as for the last muti-inversion coaster in the US, that would be this year with the opening of Dare Devil Dive(SFOG) and Untamed at Canobie both with three inversions. Some other notables are Manta(SWO) with 4 inversions built in 09' and Time Machine (FKA Lep Zepp) built in 08' with six inversions. I guess that the word 'multi-inversion' techically means more than one inversion, but that word doesn't exactly pop up in your head right away concerning a coaster with only two inversions. Actually Patriot at WOF is a custom coaster, but SFMM's Scream isn't.

To tell you the truth, concerning these coasters with more than ten inversions, I'm more than happy enough with seven; Hell even two or three inversions can be good enough with a nice layout (like Mystery Mine with special track like the immelmann turn and dark theming) I rather have a coaster with seven inversions (like Montu) that has plenty of theming and tunnels, :) than some inversion monster that doesn't have anything else to offer other than those inversions.

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Re: What US Park could have gone for the inversion record? by Cyclone_Phil Cyclone_Phil Profile at 10/25/11 10:59:25 PM

> Phil brought up Dominator. I think KD did such a great job
> making Dominator seem like it was there from the beginning
> that we forget that the ride was moved from a
> "crowded" corner of Geagua Lake with a lake on
> the lift side. The ride has enough height for more (at 161
> ft, it is the 2nd tallest floorless B&M made), but between
> the skycoaster, Serial Thriller, RWB, and the
> aforementioned lake, there was little GL could have done
> with the ride beyond the 5 inversions they managed to
> squeeze in.

Ah, that puts things into perspective. Never having been to Geauga lake, I never knew the restrictions Dominator had. All this time I thought it seemed with such a long length: 'why stop at just 5?' Not complaining, I love Dominator, but it did cross my mind about why they couldn't do more with it.

Man, that shows how long I've been away from Dorney. If I were to go back now, I wouldn't recognize it at all.

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Re: What US Park could have gone for the inversion record? by alpengeistno3 at 10/26/11 12:13:18 AM

> LOL at the first paragraph.

> I'm not sure about which US park could have got the
> inversion record (I'm kinda confused about that question)
> but as for the last muti-inversion coaster in the US, that
> would be this year with the opening of Dare Devil
> Dive(SFOG) and Untamed at Canobie both with three
> inversions. Some other notables are Manta(SWO) with 4
> inversions built in 09' and Time Machine (FKA Lep Zepp)
> built in 08' with six inversions. I guess that the word
> 'multi-inversion' technically means more than one inversion,
> but that word doesn't exactly pop up in your head right
> away concerning a coaster with only two inversions.
> Actually Patriot at WOF is a custom coaster, but SFMM's
> Scream isn't.

Well, I would say "multi-inversion is 5 or more" : 2 is a double, 3 is a triple. Technically 4 is a quadruple, but I recall any park marketing that, so that's why I draw the line at 5, but you could sway me on 4 with that logic if you wanted to try.

I forgot about the Zepplin (mainly because Hard Rock Park is almost a forgotten memory as well.), but I guess that would be the last one on US soil. Manta is only 4, (plus counting those flying inversions gets real dicey, especially with the Vekoma's) and Patriot, despite the custom layout, is still a clone of Talon's inversion scheme. No different than the Arrow Six Flags 7 inversion triplets in this discussion.

I just threw this out there to keep the inversion discussion going about Dominator (and to throw in Hydra as a counter). Hypers have really taken the novelty out of going upside down, plus as parks are "running out of real estate", it seems to be harder to get a ride with more than 6 inversions despite them getting taller, faster, and in some cases longer than the 7 inversion coasters of 20 years ago.

> To tell you the truth, concerning these coasters with more
> than ten inversions, I'm more than happy enough with seven;
> Hell even two or three inversions can be good enough with a
> nice layout (like Mystery Mine with special track like the
> immelmann turn and dark theming) I rather have a coaster
> with seven inversions (like Montu) that has plenty of
> theming and tunnels, :) than some inversion monster that
> doesn't have anything else to offer other than those
> inversions.

Totally agree with you. As much as I used to like loops, Dragon Khan looked "boring" to me from watching World's Greatest Coasters. How can a coaster with 8 inversions be boring? It didn't really do anything but turn you upside down over and over again with no real excitement in between. Despite the roughness, the transitions are what made those old Arrow loopers. Hence why I am very disappointed with the current record holders. I mean, I like the idea of doing more than one heartline roll, but 5 of them in a row?!?! Knowing the way Intamin loves to take those things at 10 miles per hour or less, I would take any 5 B&M inversions over that kind of repetition.

We are talking about bringing the inversion record back to the States (whether it was/is even possible). I don't think a Holiday World or Dollywood can (or would choose to) do it. It's going to take one of the big boys!!

Paul

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Re: What US Park could have gone for the inversion record? by Overbanked Overbanked Profile at 10/26/11 8:48:01 AM

> Well, I would say "multi-inversion is 5 or more"
> : 2 is a double, 3 is a triple. Technically 4 is a
> quadruple, but I recall any park marketing that, so that's
> why I draw the line at 5, but you could sway me on 4 with
> that logic if you wanted to try.

I like your logic, but I googled "what is a multi inversion coaster?" and the term is very vague. All this one website said was that it doesn't mean a coaster with more than 2 inversions, but is a coaster that has 'several' different inversions like the corkscrew, loop, zero-G roll etc; So techically I guess that a coaster with 6 inline twists isn't a mutli inversion coaster. That term is vague to say the least. I like your interpretation of it better.

> We are talking about bringing the inversion record back to
> the States (whether it was/is even possible). I don't think
> a Holiday World or Dollywood can (or would choose to) do
> it. It's going to take one of the big boys!!

I'll be VERY shocked if the US ever has a twelve inversion coaster in our lifetimes; Frankly, I'll be surprised on anything over seven.

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Re: What US Park could have gone for the inversion record? by alpengeistno3 at 10/26/11 12:55:35 PM

Everything comes in cycles.
- Roaring 20's was about twister woodies.
- 50's and 60's were about mine trains.
- 70's were about long out and backs.
- 80's was about loopers and gimmicks.
- 90's were about the coasters wars (having the "-est" coaster.)
- 2000's (more recently) has been about cutting back costs (lots of clones and smaller rides).

GCI brought the twisters back and hypers are modeled after the long out and backs of the 70's. It's only a matter of time before inversions become vogue yet again. With marketing departments working feverishly to find something "unique" about the smallest minutia, I don't think it will be that long before a major park says, "they have a coaster over there in Japan that does 11 loops. Can you build us one of those with 12?"

The only thing that has kept it from happening is that "glass smooth" is what most parks want in this country right now and having enough speed to slam through 12 inversions is not going to be very comfortable for most people. Plus, real estate is at a premium as parks are getting closer to their borders and to keep a ride with that many inversions "smooth" it is going to require a lot of space to spread them out.

What will need to happen is that park patrons will need to "get bored" with hyper coasters/non loopers and want to see more outrageous designs. If the B&M wing riders take off next year, it could be a step in that direction.

Paul

Re: What US Park could have gone for the inversion record? by beastmaster beastmaster Profile at 10/26/11 1:04:32 PM

> Everything comes in cycles.
> - Roaring 20's was about twister woodies.
> - 50's and 60's were about mine trains.
> - 70's were about long out and backs.
> - 80's was about loopers and gimmicks.
> - 90's were about the coasters wars (having the
> "-est" coaster.)
> - 2000's (more recently) has been about cutting back costs
> (lots of clones and smaller rides).

What happened to the 30's and 40's? The public has a right to know!

> > What will need to happen is that park patrons will need to
> "get bored" with hyper coasters/non loopers and
> want to see more outrageous designs.

So maybe the time has come to revisit THIS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_Coaster

Mike

Re: What US Park could have gone for the inversion record? by alpengeistno3 at 10/26/11 1:27:39 PM

> Everything comes in cycles.
> - Roaring 20's was about twister woodies.
> - 50's and 60's were about mine trains.
> - 70's were about long out and backs.
> - 80's was about loopers and gimmicks.
> - 90's were about the coasters wars (having the
> "-est" coaster.)
> - 2000's (more recently) has been about cutting back costs
> (lots of clones and smaller rides).

> What happened to the 30's and 40's? The public has a right
> to know!

Come on Mike, how long has it been since you cracked that history book open? Stock Market Crash? WWII?

> > What will need to happen is that park patrons will
> need to
> "get bored" with hyper coasters/non loopers and
> want to see more outrageous designs.

> So maybe the time has come to revisit THIS:

Interesting, but I'm sure the DEATH TOLL is the record any park will be trying to break!

Paul

Re: What US Park could have gone for the inversion record? by beastmaster beastmaster Profile at 10/26/11 2:25:34 PM

>> What happened to the 30's and 40's? The public has a right
> to know!

> Come on Mike, how long has it been since you cracked that
> history book open? Stock Market Crash? WWII?

To say nothing of the Wizard Of Oz and Gone With The Wind...

> > What will need to happen is that park patrons will
> need to
> "get bored" with hyper coasters/non loopers and
> want to see more outrageous designs.

> So maybe the time has come to revisit THIS:

> Interesting, but I'm sure the DEATH TOLL is *NOT* the record any
> park will be trying to break!

FTFY, Paul :)

Re: What US Park could have gone for the inversion record? by Overbanked Overbanked Profile at 10/26/11 8:54:04 PM

I just thought for fun, to fill in the earlier eras to complete the existense of the coaster. LOL :)

> Everything comes in cycles.
---Late 1800's switchback railway.
---1900's virginia reel,side friction,loop the loop,steeplechase
---1910's reverser, and the first racing woodies.

> - Roaring 20's was about twister woodies.
> - 50's and 60's were about mine trains.
> - 70's were about long out and backs.
> - 80's was about loopers and gimmicks.
> - 90's were about the coasters wars (having the
> "-est" coaster.)
> - 2000's (more recently) has been about cutting back costs
> (lots of clones and smaller rides).

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Re: What US Park could have gone for the inversion record? by alpengeistno3 at 10/26/11 9:59:01 PM

> I just thought for fun, to fill in the earlier eras to
> complete the existense of the coaster. LOL :)

> Everything comes in cycles.
> ---Late 1800's switchback railway.
> ---1900's virginia reel,side friction,loop the
> loop,steeplechase
> ---1910's reverser, and the first racing woodies.

> - Roaring 20's was about twister woodies.
> - 50's and 60's were about mine trains.
> - 70's were about long out and backs.
> - 80's was about loopers and gimmicks.
> - 90's were about the coasters wars (having the
> "-est" coaster.)
> - 2000's (more recently) has been about cutting back costs
> (lots of clones and smaller rides).

I wasn't striving for completeness, but thanks. I could have added launch coasters in the 2000's and bumped the recent trend of cutbacks to 2010's.

Your additions do help substantiate my point. The 4D's, flyers, and Motocoasters do somehow hearken back to the quirkiness of the Virginia reel and steeplechases, so we could say we have seen that cycle again. (even if it has only been a handful made.) Super loopers are really not that far off.

Paul