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I305's first drop to get trimmed?

junebugg junebugg Profile

Posted:
5/19/10 at
10:01:43 PM

This new POV shows a bracket on the left side of the first drop. There's no trim mounted on it yet but the thing looks like its gonna be as long as the Nile! It looks like it starts just after the breakover and goes all the way down to where the pullout starts!

***Note: This is NOT my POV as I have yet to visit the park this season! Just thought I'd throw that out there since some of you thought I posted a POV of BGW's new ride!

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by alpengeistno3 at 5/20/10 12:10:57 AM

So much for 94 mph:( Guess I-305 has broken some Nascar rules and regulation is an order.

Paul

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by junebugg junebugg Profile at 5/21/10 11:43:09 AM

Reports from Coastercrew are saying that the first drop trim is on now and eating the speed on the first drop!

http://twitter.com/coastercrew

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by Cyclone_Phil Cyclone_Phil Profile at 5/21/10 8:13:23 PM

Damn, that sucks big time :(
So how much of a reduction are we talking about - ie: from the current speed, what will the new speed be? And I'm going to ride this tomorrow :(

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by boyzbad at 5/21/10 9:04:34 PM

Why was/is it trimmed? Safety or the typical "it will cut down operating costs" ? Seems like every CF park I go to has trims on alot of rides.

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by MarathonRunner MarathonRunner Profile at 5/23/10 9:02:01 PM

Well, I rode it on Friday (the first day the trim was supposedly on). When I got off I felt that it was a very good roller coaster and among my favorites (I don't really have a #1 but a group of #1s - MF, Volcano, Superman (SFA - haven't been to SFNE), and now I-305. I felt that it was super smooth. I did not grey out, I didn't hit my head on the restraint, and I did the entire course with my hands up and didn't get beat up. In fact, I kind of felt slightly disappointed that it was not the "Traver of this millennium" if you know what I mean.

Now I think I know why. I did not know anything about the first hill trim, so I don't know weather or not it was used (as this was my first and only time on it). I did know about the third hill trim but did not feel it (which is consistent with what people are saying about the trim "moving" to the first hill). Also, the speed up the first hill was definitely cut as we reached the top. In fact, it scared me, since I definitely did not want to get stuck on the lift hill.

Anyhow, I really liked it. I still give the edge to MF - awesome views of Lake Erie, overbanked turns, tunnels, better layout. I think that if they were built at the same time, more people would be saying that MF was better (sorry, you can call me a CP fanboy if you like). At the very least, it seems that the better design is the one that does not require the addition of mid-course trims.

MarathonRunner

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by junebugg junebugg Profile at 5/23/10 11:43:25 PM

This pic was posted on TPR earlier tonight!

That's crazy!

I wouldn't call that a first drop trim brake!

I'm calling it a GDBR - Giga Drop Brake Run!!!!

And this video even shows a much slower ride ....

Funny thing is there are still reports of riders greying out on the first turn!

That first turn is just way too tight. They probably need to re-profile it by making the radius a lot longer or even putting something else in like an overbanked turn ala MF! But I don't see that happening since that would cost a hell of a lot of money to fix!

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by alpengeistno3 at 5/24/10 12:50:55 AM

I was going to post a trip report, but I'll just sum it up here because I'm tired. The 1st drop trim is there, it is noticeable. Being magnetic, it is not the same feel as pneumatic trims. You actually get an extra pop of air from the trim slowing the ride after it has accelerated down the initial peak.

If the purpose of the trim was to eliminate the "grey-out", it is an ultimate FAIL. There is no effect on that at all. The 2nd hill produces a nice float, but no ejector air. Same for the 3rd speed hill. The 1st half of the ride is noticeably slower. Still fast, but not ridiculously fast like it was before.

The turns are not as violent, so the ride is re-rideable now. I went 8 times in a row with no raw shoulders or sore thighs like I had after my 18 ride marathon without the trims.

The last speed hill has had the brakes reduced to just the last set at the peak. Definitely helps with the pacing of the end of the ride. The ride finishes much stronger now and there a really strong pop of air into the final neck-breaker turn and the final brake run.

There are a couple of cons of the 1st drop brake.
-slowdown on the 1st drop
-slower 1st half of ride
-loss of ejector air
-no real change to the "black out turn"

,but the pros seem to outweigh them
-extra pop of air in the 1st drop
-better pacing in 2nd half
-smoother transitions
-faster finish
-more rerideable

I thought the trim would make I-305 a definite front seat ride, but the back still delivers despite the slow down on the 1st drop.

GP doesn't notice the trim (there is still complaints about the whipping transitions despite them being softened). I am sure we enthusiasts will complain ad nauseum about it just because we know it is there and what it is there to do. IMO, the ride is still a great ride for the overall speed and tight layout. Is it still my #1? Most likely so, but rather than overwhelmingly beating Nitro, it is just slightly better now. Maybe even beatable on a good day.

Hopefully, despite our grumblings over the trim, we can come back and admit that something had to be done to the ride (face it, no matter how great a ride it is, it is a failure if nobody will ride it!) I applaud KD for coming up with a solution that still keeps the ride a "great" ride and hope they will move on the real problem...the OTSR's!!!

Paul

PS
On a different subject, Hurler has a "nice" set of 2 trims at the base of the 1st drop. The ride was closed with 4 maintenance guys crawling around the 2nd car on the brake run. I don't know if it was operational due to the stormy weather that came through when I showed up at 3:00. This will no doubt kill the little airtime that the ride had to offer. Might as well classify it as a credit coaster from now on.

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by alpengeistno3 at 5/24/10 1:07:10 AM

> That first turn is just way too tight. They probably need
> to re-profile it by making the radius a lot longer or even
> putting something else in like an overbanked turn ala MF!
> But I don't see that happening since that would cost a hell
> of a lot of money to fix!

The first turn is so tight for one reason, KD assumed it would make an intense ride that everyone would enjoy. Ron Toomer had a quote that went something like (I paraphrase because I don't want to dig out my Americas Greatest Roller Coaster Thrills and re hook up my VCR to check):

"How tall can we go, how fast? At first, I believed we had reached the limit at 125 feet, but now we are way taller. I now believe the only limit is what people are willing to get on"

And the last 2 months have shown that people at KD are not willing to get on I-305. Today, I waited longer to get on Avalanche than I-305 immediately following the thunderstorm, which was the longest the line got all evening. And it later became a walk-on with only 1 train running.

Paul

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by drachen drachen Profile at 5/24/10 10:36:41 AM

Clearly, the reason for adding the trim where they did was to lessen the amount of g-forces on the first turn. If the major concern was the transitions, than the trim could have been placed after the second hill.

It's a damn shame. I don't applaud KD for adding a trim. No ride with a trim is better than it was previously, despite being more "re-ridable". The best part of the ride, the incredible first drop, is ruined. Why applaud that?

The first turn is the real problem. It seems to me that the issue is with the design in the first place. I love how I-305 stays low to the ground, but it turns too sharp for the speed the train carries. How could KD/Intamin overlook the g-forces on that first turn in the design process?

It Cedar Point and Maverick (removed inversion) all over again. I just don't get how a park can pay so much for a ride and not know exactly what it's going to do to people until after it's built. The result is a drastic change, and in KD's case it's much worse than removing an inversion. I-305 is about speed, and the drop. It's definitely tainted in my opinion.

A better fix would be, as someone mentioned, to rework that first turn in the off season. Then, hopefully, they can remove the trim on the first drop, and replace those horrible restraints with the straps. That would make this ride a world class coaster again. Right now, it stands as a disappointment in my book.

That is coming from someone who loved this ride in April.

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by sparky sparky Profile at 5/24/10 12:02:20 PM

> Clearly, the reason for adding the trim where they did was
> to lessen the amount of g-forces on the first turn. If the
> major concern was the transitions, than the trim could have
> been placed after the second hill.

Unless your reason came from a source at the park, this is pure speculation. Where else on the ride after the second drop (save for the hill that already has trims installed) is there enough flat/straight track to install a trim?

A question from my side would be, if they were attempting to lessen the impact of the gray outs that many riders experience on the first turn, how does it help slowing the train from 94 MPH down to 85 MPH (guess on my part). If anything, all this does is increase the amount of time the train spends in the first turn by a second or two...increasing the impact of the gray out factor!

Another possibility (my speculation) I can see the trims helping the park cut down on wheel wear. It seems that the park has been having to pull a train on a somewhat regular basis to replace wheels. That is certainly something that a decrease in speed by 5-10 MPH will help greatly with.

What ultimately has happened here is the ride's height is more a marketing gimmick than ever before. The ride now has a 300 ft lift to do what a 200 ft lift could have done untrimmed.

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by junebugg junebugg Profile at 5/24/10 12:17:06 PM

> The first turn is so tight for one reason, KD assumed it
> would make an intense ride that everyone would enjoy.

I really doubt KD and CF wanted a turn so tight that it would be this problematic for enthusiasts and GP alike. I'm sure they wanted an intense ride but this is a serious miscalculation on Intamin's part. They should've known what the forces produced on that turn would be and how it would result. You just don't drop a train from a height that tall and practically vertical into a turn with a radius that tight.

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by MarathonRunner MarathonRunner Profile at 5/24/10 12:39:19 PM

> Another possibility (my speculation) I can see the trims
> helping the park cut down on wheel wear. It seems that the
> park has been having to pull a train on a somewhat regular
> basis to replace wheels. That is certainly something that a
> decrease in speed by 5-10 MPH will help greatly with.

I am calling this one out. The reason is that Cedar Fair, who now owns the park and decided to put this ride in (with obvious similarity to MF), runs MF at full speed despite wheel wear. If Cedar Fair were so concerned with wheel wear, they would have put a brake on MF long ago. What do they do with that situation on MF? You would think that Intamin and Cedar Fair would have this figured out ten years after MF.

As I think that your speculation is a very intelligent guess, I do not believe that this is the case. I feel more strongly that this is about the grey out turn. As I said before - "Call me CP fanboy" if you like, but MF's design is superior. The overbanked turn is a work of genius that allows the train to turn 180 degrees quickly without rider discomfort (in fact, it is quite fun) or slowing of the train.

Now, I have heard people say that they have greyed out on MF, but I never have (I didn't grey out on I-305 post giga-trim either).

MarathonRunner

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by alpengeistno3 at 5/24/10 1:42:49 PM

For all of you saying "rework the turn", I remind you the area is closed in by the perimeter of the park, Rebel Yell and the 2nd wave pool. There is no room to widen the turn without completely reprofiling the ride so it does not go back in that area.

As for an overbank, I also remind you of another 300 ft roller coaster in Japan that killed someone from losing a wheel over a water park. No chance Kings Dominion is going to rework I-305 to allow the possibility of that happening there (if for no other reason than paranoia).

Some of you may still want to grumble about pictures of the trim. I'm telling you from experience, the magnetic ones do not hurt the overall performance of the drop like a set of pneumatic trims would. I like the placement of them that you still get the whip over the top and the drop is tall enough to still give you a great float all the way to the bottom. It is NOT ideal, but considering the initial cost of the ride and (if the rumor of wheels burning out is true) the upkeep of it, it is the best solution that will keep the ride operational until the off season when more permanent solutions can be explored.

Nobody has a stronger tolerance for rough rides than I do. (I used to marathon 15-25 times in a row on FOF, with the head restraints!) With that being said, I "enjoy" I-305 more now than before. I liked the extra speed, the neck breaking turns, the thigh busting air as much as any other enthusiast prior to the brakes. But the ride is less of a battle to ride now and it is not as slow as it appears from the ground and videos once you are on the train.

Ride it, FIRST, then complain away.

Paul

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by sparky sparky Profile at 5/24/10 2:06:34 PM

> You just don't drop a train from a height that tall
> and practically vertical into a turn with a radius that
> tight.

Sure you do. On RCT! Perhaps that's how these rides aze designed after all!

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by sparky sparky Profile at 5/24/10 2:12:43 PM

> I am calling this one out. The reason is that Cedar Fair,
> who now owns the park and decided to put this ride in (with
> obvious similarity to MF), runs MF at full speed despite
> wheel wear. If Cedar Fair were so concerned with wheel
> wear, they would have put a brake on MF long ago. What do
> they do with that situation on MF? You would think that
> Intamin and Cedar Fair would have this figured out ten
> years after MF.

Not being a wheel expert by any means, would it seem that a ride with such rapid-fire changes in direction like I-305 might put more wear on wheels (especially guide wheels) than a ride like MF which is on the other end of the spectrum from I-305 with regards to how gradual its transitions were designed from element to element?

I am not doubting that rider comfort is important, as this is definitely a once-a-decade (if that) investment for a park. But from what I have read from this past weekend, the one noticeable change in the ride experience seems to be the second hill now being taken at a slower speed. Gray outs still reported, and intensity of the low-to-the-ground directional changes still reported.

Perhaps the new soft restraints will help to further alleviate rider discomfort?

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by MarathonRunner MarathonRunner Profile at 5/24/10 3:08:00 PM

> Not being a wheel expert by any means, would it seem that a
> ride with such rapid-fire changes in direction like I-305
> might put more wear on wheels (especially guide wheels)
> than a ride like MF which is on the other end of the
> spectrum from I-305 with regards to how gradual its
> transitions were designed from element to element?

> I am not doubting that rider comfort is important, as this
> is definitely a once-a-decade (if that) investment for a
> park. But from what I have read from this past weekend, the
> one noticeable change in the ride experience seems to be
> the second hill now being taken at a slower speed. Gray
> outs still reported, and intensity of the low-to-the-ground
> directional changes still reported.

> Perhaps the new soft restraints will help to further
> alleviate rider discomfort?

Excellent point! This is another reason that I (CP Fanboy - or man since I am 42) am claiming that it is inferior to MF. Not surprisingly, I only got one ride in because we had to wait while they switched trains. Obviously, the first one had issues, because after they switched them, maintenance was working on that one.

MarathonRunner

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by junebugg junebugg Profile at 5/24/10 5:03:00 PM

> For all of you saying "rework the turn", I remind
> you the area is closed in by the perimeter of the park,
> Rebel Yell and the 2nd wave pool. There is no room to widen
> the turn without completely reprofiling the ride so it does
> not go back in that area.

Well then the park and Intamin should've thought about that before they built it!

> As for an overbank, I also remind you of another 300 ft
> roller coaster in Japan that killed someone from losing a
> wheel over a water park. No chance Kings Dominion is going
> to rework I-305 to allow the possibility of that happening
> there (if for no other reason than paranoia).

There were no fatalities from SD2000 losing wheels. There were some injuries but nobody died.

> Nobody has a stronger tolerance for rough rides than I do.
> (I used to marathon 15-25 times in a row on FOF, with the
> head restraints!)

You're a masochist! :P

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by junebugg junebugg Profile at 5/24/10 5:20:20 PM

> Sure you do. On RCT! Perhaps that's how these rides aze
> designed after all!

So are you saying RCT is actually the CAD that Intamin uses? LOL

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by alpengeistno3 at 5/24/10 5:58:05 PM

> For all of you saying "rework the turn", I remind
> you the area is closed in by the perimeter of the park,
> Rebel Yell and the 2nd wave pool. There is no room to widen
> the turn without completely reprofiling the ride so it does
> not go back in that area.

> Well then the park and Intamin should've thought about that
> before they built it!

True. Do not think for a second that I am absolving Intamin from any blame for this. They obviously promised the park a high speed ride that would be rideable by their public. Clearly the ride they delivered does not meet fit the bill.

> As for an overbank, I also remind you of another 300 ft
> roller coaster in Japan that killed someone from losing a
> wheel over a water park. No chance Kings Dominion is going
> to rework I-305 to allow the possibility of that happening
> there (if for no other reason than paranoia).

> There were no fatalities from SD2000 losing wheels. There
> were some injuries but nobody died.

I stand corrected. But I am sure the SD2000 incident came into play with the decision of whether to put in an overbank or the current flat turn.

> Nobody has a stronger tolerance for rough rides than I do.
> (I used to marathon 15-25 times in a row on FOF, with the
> head restraints!)

> You're a masochist! :P

Hey, I used to be a ride op on Drachen Fire at Busch. Rode 72 times in one day once (and that was with the removed corkscrew still intact). Rough rides mean nothing to me, but I had to take a break at 15 on the old I-305 in the back seat. My shoulders were too raw to brace anymore. Yesterday, I did 9 straight with no problem.
>
Paul

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by RobLec RobLec Profile at 5/24/10 7:24:41 PM

> Not being a wheel expert by any means, would it seem that a
> ride with such rapid-fire changes in direction like I-305
> might put more wear on wheels (especially guide wheels)
> than a ride like MF which is on the other end of the
> spectrum from I-305 with regards to how gradual its
> transitions were designed from element to element?

I wasn't sure just where to throw this into the thread about wheel wear and replacement, but I remember that Kinzel did say at Coastermania a few years back that one of the early problems they had with MF was burning up the wheels, and they had to pressure Intamin to come up with a solution (though I don't know just what that solution was... presumably a different design and or material for the wheels)

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by RobLec RobLec Profile at 5/24/10 7:29:02 PM

> ... this is a serious
> miscalculation on Intamin's part. They should've known what
> the forces produced on that turn would be and how it would
> result.

Not unlike Maverick's original heartline roll.

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by junebugg junebugg Profile at 5/24/10 8:23:50 PM

> ... this is a serious
> miscalculation on Intamin's part. They should've known what
> the forces produced on that turn would be and how it would
> result.

> Not unlike Maverick's original heartline roll.

Very true, Rob!

I think that removed heartline was pulling 567894 G's! LOL

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by drachen drachen Profile at 5/24/10 11:23:29 PM

> Unless your reason came from a source at the park, this is
> pure speculation. Where else on the ride after the second
> drop (save for the hill that already has trims installed)
> is there enough flat/straight track to install a trim?

Of course I'm speculating - aren't we all? But it's only logical to assume that the intent of adding the trim on the first drop was to lessen the gray-out factor on the first turn. There is plenty straight track, ascending and descending the second hill to add a trim there, just as there is room on the ascent of the last hill.

Given the fact that the trim is before the turn and not after, it is probably very safe to assume that the turn is the issue, and not the fast directional changes.

Add to this the likelihood that there will be new restraints soon - more evidence that the concern is not with the speed through the turns and twists, as the new restraints will not be as painful through the latter half of the ride.

> What ultimately has happened here is the ride's height is
> more a marketing gimmick than ever before. The ride now has
> a 300 ft lift to do what a 200 ft lift could have done
> untrimmed.

I would guess that the ride is still pushing 90 mph. What's sad is that we won't get to ride it pre-trim with the new restraints. That would have been a really enjoyable ride experience.

And why so much hate for the notion of reworking the turn? It seems to me that doing that is the only way to make really this ride any better and remove the first drop trim (plus add the new restraints).

What I want to know is, now that the ride is slower, will KD get rid of that awful trim on the last hill?

Just once, I'd love to ride the thing will strap restraints and no trims at all.

Again, the fact that this ride had to be trimmed twice makes me wonder about the planning and execution of this thing in the first place.

As I mentioned before, there's no excuse for a park that is investing $25 million in a ride, and for a manufacturer that has designed a whole slew of coasters, to not be aware of what the ride is going to do to its riders before the first train rolls out. At this point in the game, with technology where it is, there should be no need for any trims on a new ride.

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by Cyclone_Phil Cyclone_Phil Profile at 5/24/10 11:34:44 PM

Since my questions weren't answered:
how much mph did the trim tack off from the drop? And when did they start using the trim: this Saturday?

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by junebugg junebugg Profile at 5/24/10 11:54:54 PM

> Since my questions weren't answered:
> how much mph did the trim tack off from the drop?

There hasn't been any official release on the new speed due to the trims. People on other forums are only guess-timating. Unless KD and Intamin release that info nobody will accurately know.

> And when
> did they start using the trim: this Saturday?

This past Friday.

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by junebugg junebugg Profile at 5/25/10 12:04:08 AM

> As I mentioned before, there's no excuse for a park that is
> investing $25 million in a ride, and for a manufacturer
> that has designed a whole slew of coasters, to not be aware
> of what the ride is going to do to its riders before the
> first train rolls out. At this point in the game, with
> technology where it is, there should be no need for any
> trims on a new ride.

True but this IS Intamin we're talking about.

Just look at their history. Maverick had an inversion removed, S:RoS and Perilous Plunge had their restraints modified, one of the trains on EGF just derailed a car, there were structural issues with Xcelerator and Wicked Twister, boats were made too big for Shoot The Rapids, etc, etc....

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by Cyclone_Phil Cyclone_Phil Profile at 5/25/10 1:37:52 AM

I hope they didn't remove too much speed. The ride op kept announcng it was still running about 90~mph, but that's the ride's orignal tag line.

As for the day: bummer... I rode it the weekend it got "neutered" :(

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by CWtopgun at 5/25/10 1:47:18 AM

> I now believe the only limit is what people are
> willing to get on"

yeah, this is starting to seem like one of my classic "puke factory" RCT freakshows.

> And the last 2 months have shown that people at KD are not
> willing to get on I-305. Today, I waited longer to get on
> Avalanche than I-305 immediately following the
> thunderstorm, which was the longest the line got all
> evening. And it later became a walk-on with only 1 train
> running.

THIS. Please let's not have another Drachen Fire. Clearly if seasoned enthusiasts are greying out and the GP is so freaked they won't ride, something must be done. And as much as I like an intense ride, there is a line. Mean Streak, for example, crosses this line for me. Drachen (not sure which versions i rode, but at least two of them) gave me intense headaches. Not fun. Let them tweak it before a wheel assembly breaks and disaster ensues. Intamin may not have the best safety record, or "turnkey" record, but you must admit that when they get the bugs worked out it's usually worth it. My $.02.

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by Overbanked Overbanked Profile at 5/25/10 2:38:17 AM

> I stand corrected. But I am sure the SD2000 incident came
> into play with the decision of whether to put in an
> overbank or the current flat turn.

Remember Paul true "flat turns" aren't banked at all; They are lateral-G makers, opposed to high-speed banked turns/curves which usually makes positive-G's. Just helpin' out, just like I need help (cough, cough Eric) with my mistaken laden, and futuristic 10/22/10 Beech Bend TR. LMAO.

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by alpengeistno3 at 5/25/10 4:42:02 AM

> Of course I'm speculating - aren't we all? But it's only
> logical to assume that the intent of adding the trim on the
> first drop was to lessen the gray-out factor on the first
> turn. There is plenty straight track, ascending and
> descending the second hill to add a trim there, just as
> there is room on the ascent of the last hill.

> Given the fact that the trim is before the turn and not
> after, it is probably very safe to assume that the turn is
> the issue, and not the fast directional changes.

I agree, partly. The park was trying to kill two birds with one stone. They wanted to lessen the G's on the 1st turn...FAIL. They also wanted to soften the turns. That actually worked, but they are still to jarring for the majority of GP...until they fix those rigid shoulder harnesses which were a mistake from day 1. I'm guessing the reason the new shoulder straps were used is that being soft, they could not be sure they would prevent an ejection on a ride with as much ejector air as the original 305 had.

> Add to this the likelihood that there will be new
> restraints soon - more evidence that the concern is not
> with the speed through the turns and twists, as the new
> restraints will not be as painful through the latter half
> of the ride.

It's there. It is still the number one complaint from the GP getting off the ride. Most don't mind the blackout, but with the G-force studies that are out there and regulation in other states, that is something the park is concerned about.

> What ultimately has happened here is the ride's height is
> more a marketing gimmick than ever before. The ride now has
> a 300 ft lift to do what a 200 ft lift could have done
> untrimmed.

> I would guess that the ride is still pushing 90 mph. What's
> sad is that we won't get to ride it pre-trim with the new
> restraints. That would have been a really enjoyable ride
> experience.

Agreed.

> And why so much hate for the notion of reworking the turn?
> It seems to me that doing that is the only way to make
> really this ride any better and remove the first drop trim
> (plus add the new restraints).

Not hate. Just a reality check. It is currently the park's most expensive single addition. The area where the turn is located is boxed in. There is a water park next door. Unless the entire ride is reprofiled ala Phantom's Revenge, there is no way the turn can be changed at this point.

> What I want to know is, now that the ride is slower, will
> KD get rid of that awful trim on the last hill?

Yes, with the exception of the last set at the top of the hill. You practically can't tell it is there. I mentioned that in my report, didn't I?

> Just once, I'd love to ride the thing will strap restraints
> and no trims at all.

Fat chance at this point. Unless the forces rip them off (something I had initially wished for before riding it this weekend.)

> Again, the fact that this ride had to be trimmed twice
> makes me wonder about the planning and execution of this
> thing in the first place.

One word...Intamin. Enough said.

> As I mentioned before, there's no excuse for a park that is
> investing $25 million in a ride, and for a manufacturer
> that has designed a whole slew of coasters, to not be aware
> of what the ride is going to do to its riders before the
> first train rolls out. At this point in the game, with
> technology where it is, there should be no need for any
> trims on a new ride.

Shouldn't be, but Intamin screwed up once again. They failed to anticipate the G forces on the 1st turn. They failed to realize the effect of the quick direction changes at the speed the train is traveling. They also failed to deliver the restraints that would make the ride bearable for most of the GP.

KD is at fault, too. They failed to realize their park clientele's limits. Holiday World put in Voyage which could be considered way too intense for most theme park guests, but even they are having to go back and make changes.

Difference is Will Koch knew exactly what he was getting when he ordered Voyage. KD, on the other hand, was promised a ride but got way more than they can handle.

Paul

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by sparky sparky Profile at 5/25/10 9:35:09 AM

> I stand corrected. But I am sure the SD2000 incident came
> into play with the decision of whether to put in an
> overbank or the current flat turn.

I would have to believe an overbanked turn could have fit into the space currently being occupied by the ground hugging turn by having the track navigate a B&M hammerhead type of turnaround (such as Nitro's). I highly doubt the incident in Japan had any impact on I-305's design. The low to the ground trackage was strictly a cost saving measure. MF's first overbanked turn comes close enough to the Frontier Trail midway, petting zoo area, and Thunder Canyon that a chucked wheel could affect a guest access area/ride.

> Hey, I used to be a ride op on Drachen Fire at Busch. Rode
> 72 times in one day once (and that was with the removed
> corkscrew still intact).

Maybe I'm crazy, but I thought Drachen Fire and Steel Phantom were two of Arrow's best multi element designs. Not saying they weren't rough, but relative to their other rides, I never found them to stand out in that category.

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by junebugg junebugg Profile at 5/25/10 1:18:04 PM

> Holiday World put in Voyage which could
> be considered way too intense for most theme park guests,
> but even they are having to go back and make changes.

Voyage may be intense but it doesn't get the complaints that I-305 does. If it did then they would've made changes much earlier. The coaster is four years old now and the new trains were made by Gravity Group mostly to reduce maintenance and improve tracking throughout the ride. Plus the company also wanted to develop their own rolling stock for all future rides and existing ones, which is a good business move in my opinion especially since they are building a new racing coaster in China next year that will be running four Timberliners.

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by MarathonRunner MarathonRunner Profile at 5/25/10 1:48:26 PM

You all have talked about changing the helix but here is a thought (one that nobody will want to admit). I-305 would work much better if it were I-205. Here is my reasoning:

Magnum XL-200 vs. Intimidator:
First Hill - Magnum - 200 ft., Intimidator - 305 ft.
Second Hill - Magnum 157 ft., Intimidator - 150 ft.
Third Hill - Magnum 80 ft., Intimidator - 75 ft. (I think)

HMMMM - Did they put a giga hill on a hyper coaster??? I think that I have found the problem. Why go up 305 ft. if you have to apply a brake on the way down. It kind of defeats the purpose of going up 305 feet, doesn't it?

MarathonRunner

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by junebugg junebugg Profile at 5/25/10 2:45:52 PM

> HMMMM - Did they put a giga hill on a hyper coaster??? I

That's one way to maybe look at it considering the total track length is comparable to a hyper. The two previous giga coasters are 6,595' (MF) and 8,133' (SD2000) and I-305 is only 5,100' in length. Diamondback, Behemoth, Nitro are all significantly longer than I-305 and Magnum even beats it in length by a mere 6-ft.

Also, the 2nd half of I-305 isn't your standard hyper layout. CF stated they wanted a lovechild of MF and Maverick and they wound up getting more than they asked for. Most of the track is low to the ground and with no elevation changes. Hypers, on the other hand, are all about elevation changes with big airtime hills and raised turns.

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by alpengeistno3 at 5/25/10 4:18:21 PM

> I stand corrected. But I am sure the SD2000 incident came
> into play with the decision of whether to put in an
> overbank or the current flat turn.

> Remember Paul true "flat turns" aren't banked at
> all; They are lateral-G makers, opposed to high-speed
> banked turns/curves which usually makes positive-G's. Just
> helpin' out, just like I need help (cough, cough Eric) with
> my mistaken laden, and futuristic 10/22/10 Beech Bend TR.
> LMAO.

And what would you like to call a banked turn that is mostly at ground level? "Flat" seemed like the most applicable descriptor to me.

Paul

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by alpengeistno3 at 5/25/10 4:22:29 PM

> I stand corrected. But I am sure the SD2000 incident came
> into play with the decision of whether to put in an
> overbank or the current flat turn.

> I would have to believe an overbanked turn could have fit
> into the space currently being occupied by the ground
> hugging turn by having the track navigate a B&M hammerhead
> type of turnaround (such as Nitro's). I highly doubt the
> incident in Japan had any impact on I-305's design. The low
> to the ground trackage was strictly a cost saving measure.
> MF's first overbanked turn comes close enough to the
> Frontier Trail midway, petting zoo area, and Thunder Canyon
> that a chucked wheel could affect a guest access area/ride.

I haven't been to CP in 4 years, but if I remember correctly, isn't MF's 1st drop and overbank near the perimeter road? If it was to chuck a wheel, it would do so into Lake Erie, not a crowded wave pool.

Oh yeah, you forgot the little problem that MF has a straight drop into the overbank. I-305 would have to curve and that would require a longer runout at the bottom to reorient the train to discipate the high lateral G forces. The supports for the turn would probably wind up in wave pool #2 if not across it, otherwise you have fixed nothing.

> Hey, I used to be a ride op on Drachen Fire at Busch. Rode
> 72 times in one day once (and that was with the removed
> corkscrew still intact).

> Maybe I'm crazy, but I thought Drachen Fire and Steel
> Phantom were two of Arrow's best multi element designs. Not
> saying they weren't rough, but relative to their other
> rides, I never found them to stand out in that category.
>

Best yes, but that didn't save them from being removed/changed.

Paul

* This Post Has Been Modified *

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by Rollercoaster_freak220 Rollercoaster_freak220 Profile at 5/25/10 4:27:21 PM

> CF stated they wanted a lovechild of MF and
> Maverick and they wound up getting more than they asked
> for.

Maybe this is a lesson in coaster genealogy. Coasters just shouldn't breed. I mean, just look at SOB. :P

-Josh

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by RobLec RobLec Profile at 5/25/10 4:35:48 PM

> Maybe this is a lesson in coaster genealogy. Coasters just
> shouldn't breed. I mean, just look at SOB. :P

Very same thing was going thru my head even before reading your reply!

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by alpengeistno3 at 5/25/10 4:35:48 PM

> Holiday World put in Voyage which could
> be considered way too intense for most theme park guests,
> but even they are having to go back and make changes.

> Voyage may be intense but it doesn't get the complaints
> that I-305 does. If it did then they would've made changes
> much earlier. The coaster is four years old now and the new
> trains were made by Gravity Group mostly to reduce
> maintenance and improve tracking throughout the ride. Plus
> the company also wanted to develop their own rolling stock
> for all future rides and existing ones, which is a good
> business move in my opinion especially since they are
> building a new racing coaster in China next year that will
> be running four Timberliners.

And why is the maintenance an issue? Because the ride has design issues (caused by the trains) which in turn affects the riders (or will if left unchecked by Holiday World's excellent maintenance staff). If it didn't need to be changed, Holiday World would not have touched it. Different situation than I-305, but same result, I say. Holiday World would have never considered the Timberliners if there was no problem.

Paul

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by Rollercoaster_freak220 Rollercoaster_freak220 Profile at 5/25/10 4:57:02 PM

> And why is the maintenance an issue? Because the ride has
> design issues (caused by the trains) which in turn affects
> the riders (or will if left unchecked by Holiday World's
> excellent maintenance staff). If it didn't need to be
> changed, Holiday World would not have touched it. Different
> situation than I-305, but same result, I say. Holiday World
> would have never considered the Timberliners if there was
> no problem.

> Paul

So you are saying that if you found out a way to DRASTICALLY cut costs maintaining something you owned, you wouldn't take that opportunity if you could afford the up-front cost? At the same time, Voyage will be increasing capacity, and as a plus will be more comfortable to riders. It's not because it was a problem specifically with Voyage, it's a PTC problem across the board (minus maybe a few simple straight out & backs.) It's the same reason anyone updates and upgrades anything. Just because Voyage is the first coaster to get the Timberliners, doesn't mean it had a problem, or at least anymore of a problem than any other fast, twisted wooden coaster.

-Josh

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by alpengeistno3 at 5/25/10 5:06:08 PM

> And why is the maintenance an issue? Because the ride has
> design issues (caused by the trains) which in turn affects
> the riders (or will if left unchecked by Holiday World's
> excellent maintenance staff). If it didn't need to be
> changed, Holiday World would not have touched it. Different
> situation than I-305, but same result, I say. Holiday World
> would have never considered the Timberliners if there was
> no problem.

> Paul

> So you are saying that if you found out a way to
> DRASTICALLY cut costs maintaining something you owned, you
> wouldn't take that opportunity if you could afford the
> up-front cost? At the same time, Voyage will be increasing
> capacity, and as a plus will be more comfortable to riders.
> It's not because it was a problem specifically with Voyage,
> it's a PTC problem across the board (minus maybe a few
> simple straight out & backs.) It's the same reason
> anyone updates and upgrades anything. Just because Voyage
> is the first coaster to get the Timberliners, doesn't mean
> it had a problem, or at least anymore of a problem than any
> other fast, twisted wooden coaster.

> -Josh

Sure, but I don't see anyone else jumping on the Timberliner bandwagon. Neither is Holiday World jumping to buy another set for Legend and Raven to reduce maintenance costs there too. Bottom line, Holiday World needed those trains because the PTC's could not handle THAT layout. KD is putting brakes on I-305 because the trains can't handle it's layout (more specifically the passengers, but changing trains is not yet an option. The restraints on the test seat seems to show they are working towards that, though). The two situations are more comparable than you are willing to admit.

Paul

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by junebugg junebugg Profile at 5/25/10 5:20:02 PM

> Sure, but I don't see anyone else jumping on the
> Timberliner bandwagon. Neither is Holiday World jumping to
> buy another set for Legend and Raven to reduce maintenance
> costs there too.

Remember, HW is a small family owned park so they don't have the capital to throw around like a corporate owned park. The addition of the Timberliners were dependent on them selling two of Voyage's PTCs since most of the money they had this year for expansion went to Wildebeest. With that said I see Timberliners next for Legend and later down the road for Raven, or maybe even both will get them at the same time.

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by Overbanked Overbanked Profile at 5/25/10 7:30:28 PM

> And what would you like to call a banked turn that is
> mostly at ground level? "Flat" seemed like the
> most applicable descriptor to me.

> Paul

You answered your own question, banked turn. There's a reason that they call a "flat turn" flat. Banked turns have a diagonal, or vertical axis (give or take). Flat turns has a completely horizontal axis, just like straight track. A "flat turn" where I-305's "banked turn" is now would result in extreme lateral-G's that probably wouldn't be safe.

* This Post Has Been Modified *

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by alpengeistno3 at 5/25/10 11:38:10 PM

> Sure, but I don't see anyone else jumping on the
> Timberliner bandwagon. Neither is Holiday World jumping to
> buy another set for Legend and Raven to reduce maintenance
> costs there too.

> Remember, HW is a small family owned park so they don't
> have the capital to throw around like a corporate owned
> park. The addition of the Timberliners were dependent on
> them selling two of Voyage's PTCs since most of the money
> they had this year for expansion went to Wildebeest. With
> that said I see Timberliners next for Legend and later down
> the road for Raven, or maybe even both will get them at the
> same time.

I could look this up, but I am sure someone will have the answer. Didn't Holiday World get the Timberliners for "bagain basement" prices for letting Gravity Group test them on Raven?

Paul

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by junebugg junebugg Profile at 5/25/10 11:49:26 PM

> I could look this up, but I am sure someone will have the
> answer. Didn't Holiday World get the Timberliners for
> "bagain basement" prices for letting Gravity
> Group test them on Raven?

Yes, they did get a discount but Paula also mentioned that they needed to sell two of the PTCs to get the Timberliners. Wildebeest was a costly investment for the park at $5.5 million.

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by Rollercoaster_freak220 Rollercoaster_freak220 Profile at 5/26/10 12:11:31 AM

Also, remember these are BRAND NEW products. Other parks aren't jumping on the bandwagon yet because they are probably waiting till it's proven as a viable solution to PTCrap causing undue wear and tear on their coasters. Holiday World is taking the leap and has become the testing ground for the new trains, which will prove to the world what they are capable of. I have a feeling that many parks will be watching Holiday World very closely this season.

-Josh

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by junebugg junebugg Profile at 5/26/10 12:34:40 AM

> Also, remember these are BRAND NEW products. Other parks
> aren't jumping on the bandwagon yet because they are
> probably waiting till it's proven as a viable solution to
> PTCrap causing undue wear and tear on their coasters.

> Holiday World is taking the leap and has become the testing
> ground for the new trains, which will prove to the world
> what they are capable of. I have a feeling that many parks
> will be watching Holiday World very closely this season.

Well, Happy Valley in China did just buy a Gravity Group racer that'll come with four Timberliners but I'm sure everyone else is waiting to see them run on Voyage since it is pretty much the current pinnacle of wood coaster design. If they trains run fine on that then they'll run easily on anything else.

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by sparky sparky Profile at 5/26/10 10:31:24 AM

> I haven't been to CP in 4 years, but if I remember
> correctly, isn't MF's 1st drop and overbank near the
> perimeter road? If it was to chuck a wheel, it would do so
> into Lake Erie, not a crowded wave pool.

The first drop and rise into the first overbanked turn parallels the Perimeter Road. But the actual overbanked turn itself arcs over trees, bordering up towards the southwest corner of Thunder Canyon, before diving back down towards the Frontier Trail and Petting Zoo area.

> > Best yes, but that didn't save them from being
> removed/changed.

Or perhaps their respective parks had higher standards than the ride experience these rides offered guests. All it took was BGW to install their first B&M in 1997 to seal DF's fate. At KW, a combination of lack of expansion space coupled with lower budgets led to the SP transformation (which I believe was originally rumored to be a full replacement before they opted to salvage the lift, first drop, second hill structure, and final brakes/station.

For the record, easily the worst Arrow multi element coaster I have ever experienced was WoF's Orient Express. Great layout (predecessor to KI's Vortex), but OUCH.

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by sparky sparky Profile at 5/26/10 10:50:11 AM

> I could look this up, but I am sure someone will have the
> answer. Didn't Holiday World get the Timberliners for
> "bagain basement" prices for letting Gravity
> Group test them on Raven?

> Yes, they did get a discount but Paula also mentioned that
> they needed to sell two of the PTCs to get the
> Timberliners. Wildebeest was a costly investment for the
> park at $5.5 million.

Of course HW got a discount on the trains- they are prototypes. Nearly all prototypes are discounted to the first park willing to take a chance. So now GG has their new premier product operating on their premier coaster in one of the industry's premier mom and pop operations.

Bottom line is the simple testing of a shortened train on Raven guarantees nothing regarding how full length trains will perform over the course of an entire season on a far more aggressive ride. So in the end of the day, HW took a huge risk in placing these new, unproven trains on their premier attraction.

A similar scenerio that took place in 2007 at Hersheypark saw the park taking far less risk, in switching out PTCs for Millennium Flyers on Wildcat. The park already had 6 prior seasons of experience in running these trains across Midway America on Lightning Racer. Besides not having the "prototype" risk, the park was also switching out the trains on a ride that while still popular, was not in the same "marquee" league in its respective park as Voyage is at HW.

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by alpengeistno3 at 5/26/10 2:16:19 PM

Lol, Sparky,
I was just getting ready to bring up the Hershey Wildcat scenario, since you can't ANYTHING say about Holiday World around here with out meeting resistance.

I don't believe most parks reprofile coasters or change rolling stock just for financial reasons. I'm at a loss to think of one at the momment. There is too much money involved in any change like that somehow the bottom line must be affected by guest response for the park to take action. Even the "Bizarroing" of Medusa and SROS was in response to guest traffic/complaints.

Paul

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by sparky sparky Profile at 5/26/10 3:59:14 PM

Hershey purchasing MF trains for Wildcat may have also been helped by the interest in, and then purchase of the two PTC trains by (then) Kennywood Entertainment to send to Lake Compounce as spares for Boulder Dash. Similar in how HW's purchase of of the GG trains being helped by the purchase of two of its PTC trains by Parc Management for use at Darien Lake.

Hershey knew they were not taking much risk at all after their experience with Lighting Racer, so sending all of Wildcat's rolling stock away wasn't as big of a deal. Luckily for HW, Voyage is a three train coaster, so they wound up with a spare "just in case".

The Wildcat MF train purchase was (to the best of my knowlege) never marketed to the public as a "new" feature. HW has (at least lightly) promoted the new trains for Voyage.

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by Rollercoaster_freak220 Rollercoaster_freak220 Profile at 5/26/10 5:09:58 PM

I just don't see why you are finding it SO hard to believe that Holiday World is just taking advantage of their great relationship with GG to improve what is often voted the BEST wooden coaster in the world (of course, it's the individual opinion of each person that really counts.) If this were a corporate chain, they probably wouldn't be taking a risk like that to improve an already-uber-praised ride. No one is saying that HW can do no wrong, but in this case I personally don't think that it's because there was some major problem with the ride. And if there were problems, HW's Maintenance crew has kept it in check and out of public eyes.

It's not like HW ordered GG to design new trains, GG decided to do that on their own, and HW was the perfect place to put the prototypes into use.

Why all the cynicism Paul? Not that it's a big deal. Believe what you want. :)

-Josh

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by AirBear AirBear Profile at 5/27/10 12:59:09 AM

It's all about the ROI ...

There, someone had to say it :-)

And for Holiday World, I'm guessing the investment was fairly reasonable given the "prototype discount" on the Timberliners and selling the used PTCs. Then with the prospect of reduced maintenance costs in the future, the odds of getting a solid return on that investment are pretty darn good.

Simple as that I'd say ... well, maybe they did consider the guest satisfaction thing a bit as well :-)

Rick W - AirBear (can't wait for Holiwood Nights)

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by cellocoasterdude cellocoasterdude Profile at 5/27/10 9:13:47 AM

Here are some facts about SD2K:

1. No one was killed.

2. It was not a design issue that caused the problem.

3. It was/is not an Intamin, it was built by Morgan.

4. It was not "Wheel burnout" that caused the problem.

5. Improper mechanical adjustment was the problem, a bolt was adjusted too tightly.

This does not have as much to do with I305 requiring a trim as it may seem at first glance. I am curious and will check if they have added a trim to the first drop of SD2K. I do not think it does have one, I am sure that I would have noticed when I rode it.

Sayonara

-Tim

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by MarathonRunner MarathonRunner Profile at 5/27/10 9:21:36 PM

> This does not have as much to do with I305 requiring a trim
> as it may seem at first glance. I am curious and will check
> if they have added a trim to the first drop of SD2K. I do
> not think it does have one, I am sure that I would have
> noticed when I rode it.

> Sayonara

> -Tim

Tim,

You have been on SD2K?? So, have you been on MF and I-305? It would be very interesting to talk with someone who has ridden all three coasters.

MarathonRunner

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by boyzbad at 5/27/10 10:41:15 PM

What trains are on the Mamba and SD2K? Same ones? If so I don't see how the Intimain trains are going through wheels as they appear to have a better design than the trains on Mamba. Also what's the truth to designers of SD2K riding Mamba at WOF and liking the layout and semi-copying the ride? Lastly I kinda wanted to go ride this I305 as I like riding new rides but...I don't see it being worth the plane ticket from KC now.

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by cellocoasterdude cellocoasterdude Profile at 5/28/10 8:55:57 PM

> You have been on SD2K?? So, have you been on MF and I-305?
> It would be very interesting to talk with someone who has
> ridden all three coasters.

I have been on SD2K several times, I live in Japan. I also marathoned MF at an event 21 times in a row. Since I live in Japan, I have no idea when we will have the chance to ride I-305, probably not any time soon.

The same designer, Steve Okamoto built SD2K and Mamba. So, yes he probably rode it before designing SD2K. He also designed Steel Force, and Wild Thing if you want to check out his work.

Mamba has exactly the same trains as SD2K from everything I can tell. The only time I am aware of Morgan re-working trains was for PR, but that was initially an Arrow design.

Another great (and I believe seriously under-rated) gem of a coaster is the Steel Eel, also by Morgan.

FWIW, I was not that impressed with MF. I remember getting off thinking how much better I liked Thunder Dolphin. SD2K is an interesting beast, if you get the right seat (which is hard to pull off in Japan) it is one of the best coasters.

-Tim

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by beastmaster beastmaster Profile at 5/28/10 9:06:06 PM

>if you get the right seat (which
> is hard to pull off in Japan)
> -Tim

>
Are they pretty strict about enforcing assigned seating in the Far (well, for you, Near) East?

Mike

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by junebugg junebugg Profile at 5/28/10 11:09:26 PM

There are new reports that the first drop has been trimmed AGAIN!!!

* This Post Has Been Modified *

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by Leaps at 5/29/10 12:50:43 AM

> There are new reports that the first drop has been trimmed
> AGAIN!!!
> * This Post Has Been Modified *

OMG!! What the heck are we gonna do now!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by Absimilliard Absimilliard Profile at 5/29/10 2:04:55 AM

Regarding Steel Dragon 2000, Morgan changed the track and train designs to deal with the high speeds involved. Huge beefy track with outside guide wheels. The wheels are huge and the trains nicely roomy and wide.

I rode it last year and the only trim brake is the midcourse brake run, where the train was lightly braked.

I haven't been on MF or I305 yet, but I felt Steel Dragon was the nicest... family coaster I ever rode. No real intensity or airtime sadly.

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by BellT at 5/29/10 3:54:46 AM

> There are new reports that the first drop has been trimmed
> AGAIN!!!
> * This Post Has Been Modified *
WTH!! How does that even work?! It already looked shockingly snail's paced from that video. Yup, definitely not going back to KD for the rest of the season. I will see what mods they want to do on the off season so that it doesn't ruin the epic insanity that was etched into my mind.

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by cellocoasterdude cellocoasterdude Profile at 5/29/10 7:19:43 AM

I remember SD2K only having the slight midcourse brake as well, I guess it makes sense that the trains and wheels are slightly wider, but the general design is the same as every other Morgan I have been on.

As far as it being a tame ride, it depends on the seat. For Morgans, usually the best seats are in the second car from the front. I think that the coaster does many things so much better than MF that there is no comparison. There is of course the speed, but also laterals in the turn-around, and plenty of air time. The return run delivers plenty of air, especially the final tunnel.

Yes, in Japan you are usually told where to sit. Since it is Japan, you comply when you are told where to sit, that's just the way it is.

-Tim

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by Cyclone_Phil Cyclone_Phil Profile at 5/29/10 11:25:20 PM

> There are new reports that the first drop has been trimmed
> AGAIN!!!

Good lord... I can't even compare what it was like pre-trim 1, how am I going to tell what trim 2 is going to feel like? Why can't they just spend the money getting new shoulder restraints than these damn trims? What next, are they going to do away with 60-80' of the top hill and just call it a hyper coaster for real than in name only?

* This Post Has Been Modified *

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by alpengeistno3 at 6/8/10 1:15:44 AM

> Why all the cynicism Paul? Not that it's a big deal.
> Believe what you want. :)

> -Josh

Read any HWN trip reports, lately? I figured I needed to do a "wait and see" on this since I haven't been, but it doesn't sound like the PTC's have endeared themselves to anyone here so far. The Timberliners are not just about "better maintenance". HW is fixing a PROBLEM before it gets worst.

Paul

Re: I305's first drop to get trimmed? by coasterpriest coasterpriest Profile at 6/10/10 12:30:50 PM

Got on I305 21 times on Tuesday, June 8. Yes, I could tell the train was slowed with the trim. It made my first two or three rides in the front seat quite disappointing. But started riding the last few seats, mostly the last seat, and didn't feel the trim as much, if at all. I never felt any "gray out."

I loved this ride, especially the radical changes in profiling in the second half of the ride.

In my book KD has a winner with I305 - even with the trim.

Coasterpriest