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Ultimate Rollercoaster > Discussion Forums > Roller Coasters, Parks & Attractions > Coaster design "oops"

Coaster design "oops"

alpengeistno3

Posted:
3/31/09 at
6:05:50 PM

You know, someone mentioned Raptor's painful sharp turn into the final brakes in another thread, so I thought this might be an interesting topic to ponder. What other coasters have/had moments that make you say "they didn't really mean for it to do that!"? I think Pre-CAD designs should get a bye, but if you want to include all those Arrow headbangers and Dinn rib-crackers, go ahead.

I'll start with another Beemer. Alpengeist's flop into the block brake seems soooo not what Busch was looking for from their record breaking inverted coaster. Especially seeing how a certain blue and silver coaster just over the trees had a similar issue that resulted in it's removal. Love to know how B&M smoothed that little "oopsie" over with the head of ride construction in order to get them to agree to go ahead with Apollo and Griffon.

Paul

Re: Coaster design "oops" by LoneStar LoneStar Profile at 3/31/09 10:55:05 PM

I made a post quite a while back about Amarillo's Texas Tornado. The shape of the loops just looks "off", and the whole coaster rides weird. Even the trains look funky. Someone mentioned they thought UT engineering students helped designed it. I don't know if that is true or not, but the whole coaster looks like they started with a plan and had to make major adjustment throughout construction.

http://www.rcdb.com/ig254.htm

texas tornado

Re: Coaster design "oops" by Great_Ump Great_Ump Profile at 3/31/09 11:56:47 PM

After the mid course brake on Anaconda at KD there is that wicked turn around element where if you are taller enough, it snaps your neck.

I always instruct my friends that when I yell "brace" that means you hold youself as still as you possibly can to prevent being decapitated.

Joe
Great_Ump

Re: Coaster design "oops" by alpengeistno3 at 4/1/09 12:21:50 AM

> After the mid course brake on Anaconda at KD there is that
> wicked turn around element where if you are taller enough,
> it snaps your neck.

> I always instruct my friends that when I yell
> "brace" that means you hold youself as still as
> you possibly can to prevent being decapitated.

Ahh, the infamous butterfly loop. I wish I had got a chance to ask Toomer this personally when I met him at Coastermania some 10 years ago, but I heard a rumor that the butterfly was supposed to be 2 more inversions. KD had completed construction on Anaconda up to the block brake prior to the '90 season they halted their construction until the '90 season was over while they redesigned the butterfly section. The ride didn't open until the '91 season. The only confirmation I have is that the ride stood 1/2 completed all through '90 (I have pictures from the Eiffel Tower and a map saying "site of new attraction for '91), so take that for what it is worth.

Paul

> Joe
> Great_Ump

Re: Coaster design "oops" by Great_Ump Great_Ump Profile at 4/1/09 2:02:59 AM

> Ahh, the infamous butterfly loop. I wish I had got a chance
> to ask Toomer this personally when I met him at
> Coastermania some 10 years ago, but I heard a rumor that
> the butterfly was supposed to be 2 more inversions. KD had
> completed construction on Anaconda up to the block brake
> prior to the '90 season they halted their construction
> until the '90 season was over while they redesigned the
> butterfly section. The ride didn't open until the '91
> season. The only confirmation I have is that the ride stood
> 1/2 completed all through '90 (I have pictures from the
> Eiffel Tower and a map saying "site of new attraction
> for '91), so take that for what it is worth.

If that's true, they should've just made one long swooping drop into the two corkscrews and saved us all a lot of money on asprin.

Joe
Great_Ump

Re: Coaster design "oops" by MMountainMan MMountainMan Profile at 4/1/09 3:42:19 PM

All this talk reminds me of a few occations in particular; with both myslef and others.

First time I went to magic mountain when I was about 9 years old I think. My brother thought it would be good to take me on batman for my first big roller coaster. I think the only others I had been on were thunder mountain, and those types. I had my eyes shut for probably the entire ride, lol. After that I was reluctant to go on others, even ninja. My theory in my head was that since it was hanging under the track, it was going to loop around and all that too. I warmed up to most of the rides after batman, but it's just funny how scared I was of some rides as a kid. Also with splash mountain when I was younger I refused to go on that ride! lol. If only I knew how painless and short that drop was, for some reason pirates also made me put my head down as we went down the drops.

I have quite the story (short story) to tell though when my dad had a friend from the east coast come to the west coast to visit. We took them around to seaworld, universal, and some other locations. And it was so bizarre! Because her son who was about 16 would absolutely not go anywhere near an escalator! I just didn't get it. Now imagine this at universal, the whole place is crawling with escalators, lol. I don't know, I actually think it had some serious deeper meaning with his parents being extremely over protective. Because he was afraid of escalators, rides, coasters, water, heights, you name it. So the only rides he went on with seaworld and universal combined was the artic ride at seaworld and the terminator 3d at universal which isn't even a ride. Anyway, I don't want to try to take the floor for too much longer here, but that's an awful long way to fly to only do a few things.

[EDIT] : How embarrassing, my apologies to urc, I don't know how in the world my reply to "Coaster Trauma" got in here. If the urc gods are listening (eric), do what you wish with this post. :-D.

* This Post Has Been Modified *

Re: Coaster design "oops" by Cyclone_Phil Cyclone_Phil Profile at 4/1/09 6:03:54 PM

message moved*

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Re: Coaster design "oops" by extremeroller at 4/1/09 11:48:04 PM

How about the Zamperla Volaire? That entire coaster is one big OOPS.

I rode one at Elitch's and never again, no coaster credit is worth that.

Jennifer

Re: Coaster design "oops" by Great_Ump Great_Ump Profile at 4/1/09 11:49:39 PM

> How about the Zamperla Volaire? That entire coaster is one
> big OOPS.

> I rode one at Elitch's and never again, no coaster credit
> is worth that.

> Jennifer

The same goes for what was Viper at SFGAdv.

Joe
Great_Ump

Re: Coaster design "oops" by Link Link Profile at 4/2/09 4:03:04 PM

Not so much an "oops" as a lack of foresight: I rode High Roller at Valley Fair once and couldn't quite fit in the seat (I'm 6'7" tall and mostly legs). So, being a "coaster classic", I was able to seat turned kinda sideways because there was no divider and a single lap belt. Unfortunately, this configuration didn't afford me the best sense of security as we climbed the lift.

Funny thing is the ride attendants let the train launch with me seated that way!

Yeah, it's a small kiddie coaster, and I know my center of gravity would have prevented me from being thrown or falling out, but still....psychologically, it was difficult to trust that the laws of physics were on my side!

One coaster that deserves one big "oops!" is Son of Beast. I could go down a list on this bad boy, but you would think that they could have designed the thing with enough legroom for even an Oompa Loompa.

Re: Coaster design "oops" by alpengeistno3 at 4/2/09 6:10:01 PM

> Not so much an "oops" as a lack of foresight: I
> rode High Roller at Valley Fair once and couldn't quite fit
> in the seat (I'm 6'7" tall and mostly legs). So, being
> a "coaster classic", I was able to seat turned
> kinda sideways because there was no divider and a single
> lap belt. Unfortunately, this configuration didn't afford
> me the best sense of security as we climbed the lift.

> Funny thing is the ride attendants let the train launch
> with me seated that way!

Ever rode Drachen Fire? We had a kid (had to be either a high school sophomore or freshman) who was around 6'5" - 6'7" who wanted to ride in the back row of DF. He had to sit in a squatted position with the shoulder harness basically around his neck and shoulders as opposed to against his chest (he was a pretty big guy, too) I asked the supervisor "are you going to let him ride like that?" to which he replied "he's in there and the harness is secure" or something like that. Sure enough, he went out like that and came back for a reride. He was smart enough to realize there was a little more room in the seat in front of the car, but because of DF's short nose cones, he still had to sit with his legs sideways. I hope he got turned off from coasters because there is no way he would fit in the restrictive B&M and Intamin restraints of today.

Paul

Re: Coaster design "oops" by Cyclone_Phil Cyclone_Phil Profile at 4/3/09 1:36:52 AM

Really? A person of that height would have trouble in the restraints? Thank god I'm less than 6' tall. I'm 5' 9" or 'average height' :)

Re: Coaster design "oops" by Coaster14bl Coaster14bl Profile at 4/3/09 2:18:32 AM

> Really? A person of that height would have trouble in the
> restraints? Thank god I'm less than 6' tall. I'm 5' 9"
> or 'average height' :)

A person of average height can still have problems based on the lenght of upper body vs lower body. I am 6' tall but have never done well on most loopers especially arrow due to my longer upper body and shorter legs. I have had to slouch down in those to fit and it is not comfortable at all. I think the worst is sob. My wife and her long legs and me with my long upper body both had issues there.

Brett

Re: Coaster design "oops" by alpengeistno3 at 4/3/09 9:24:54 PM

> Really? A person of that height would have trouble in the
> restraints? Thank god I'm less than 6' tall. I'm 5' 9"
> or 'average height' :)

You're average, but if you have ridden an Arrow Looper, you would know that the even rows are severely cramped. Drachen Fire was still somewhat cramped in the odd rows as the nose cones were not open like on standard Arrow trains.

Legroom aside, the kid was built like a linebacker, so getting horse collars over such broad shoulders is futile. He may have been totally secure, but with the seatbelts now used by B&M, Intamin, and Cedar Fair's Arrows, there is no way he would have been able to pass.

Paul

Re: Coaster design "oops" by Cyclone_Phil Cyclone_Phil Profile at 4/3/09 11:10:02 PM

Oic, thanks for the replies.

Re: Coaster design "oops" by Link Link Profile at 4/4/09 1:07:04 PM

> Really? A person of that height would have trouble in the
> restraints? Thank god I'm less than 6' tall. I'm 5' 9"
> or 'average height' :)

> A person of average height can still have problems based on
> the lenght of upper body vs lower body. I am 6' tall but
> have never done well on most loopers especially arrow due
> to my longer upper body and shorter legs. I have had to
> slouch down in those to fit and it is not comfortable at
> all. I think the worst is sob. My wife and her long legs
> and me with my long upper body both had issues there.

> Brett
I have long legs and a short upper body. Plus my legs are skinny. I can kinda fold 'em to the side if I have to.

But yeah.....they need to start making these rides more comfortable for taller and/or "passengers of exceptional size".

Re: Coaster design "oops" by coasters4life at 4/4/09 5:36:05 PM

One word: Hercules.

That's it.

Re: Coaster design "oops" by alpengeistno3 at 10/4/12 11:02:35 PM
Figured with Intamin's resume being brought up again, maybe it might be fun to resurrect a zombie thread before Halloween. Obviously, I-305 and Skyrush seem to make this list, hands down. I-305 for the miscalculation of the G-force applied during the 1st turn (which contributed to the sustained grey-out and wheel wear during the 1st year) and all the associated redesigns throughout that year.

Skyrush's new restraint design is clearly candidate for disaster of the year. Seeing how this is a 2009 thread, any others to add from the last 3 years? (especially any that AREN'T Intamin's)

Paul

Re: Coaster design "oops" by Cyclone_Phil Cyclone_Phil Profile at 10/4/12 11:14:40 PM
Damn I was such a noob 3 yrs ago, lol.

I dunno what category to place it under, but the Coney Island Cyclone really could've benefited from articulated cars instead of 4 rows per car. Hell, I'd take the PTC 2-row cars as that's how bad it is to ride in the 4th row of any car. Never again am I ever riding the last seat of that coaster if they stick with the original trains. Any other woodie is 'smoother' and safer after that ride, imo.

As for I305, I don't think the redesign of the first turn made much of a difference. I still get greyouts on that segment. But small price to pay as long as they don't add trims to the first hill ever again.

* This post was modified at 10/4/12 11:17:28 PM *

Re: Coaster design "oops" by Stredain Stredain Profile at 10/5/12 9:53:21 AM
alpengeistno3 said:


I'll start with another Beemer. Alpengeist's flop into the block brake seems soooo not what Busch was looking for from their record breaking inverted coaster. Especially seeing how a certain blue and silver coaster just over the trees had a similar issue that resulted in it's removal. Love to know how B&M smoothed that little "oopsie" over with the head of ride construction in order to get them to agree to go ahead with Apollo and Griffon.

Paul


Paul,
I have wondered that too and I have plans to ask around with the people whom could answer that question. I do know that when the Old Girl was built, an Eeek moment and the Old Girl had been delayed in her building for an undisclosed reason.
When you look at Alpengeist from coming out from Oktoberfest, has anyone noticed the slight 3 degree lean towards the right? is that an optical illusion?
S.

Re: Coaster design "oops" by alpengeistno3 at 10/5/12 8:45:42 PM
Stredain said:

alpengeistno3 said:



I'll start with another Beemer. Alpengeist's flop into the block brake seems soooo not what Busch was looking for from their record breaking inverted coaster. Especially seeing how a certain blue and silver coaster just over the trees had a similar issue that resulted in it's removal. Love to know how B&M smoothed that little "oopsie" over with the head of ride construction in order to get them to agree to go ahead with Apollo and Griffon.

Paul


Paul,
I have wondered that too and I have plans to ask around with the people whom could answer that question. I do know that when the Old Girl was built, an Eeek moment and the Old Girl had been delayed in her building for an undisclosed reason.
When you look at Alpengeist from coming out from Oktoberfest, has anyone noticed the slight 3 degree lean towards the right? is that an optical illusion?
S.

I've never noticed, but I would assume it is an optical illusion. Especially since no pathway through the Rhinefield area is on flat land.

Paul

Re: Coaster design "oops" by drachen drachen Profile at 10/5/12 9:47:05 PM
For me to qualify something as an "oops", I think of elements on rides that I need to brace myself for. In no particular order,

- Skyrush's restraints (I'll leave the station out of it for now...)
- Alpengeist's twist/turn into the MCBR
- Storm Runner's head-banging turn at the end of the ride
- KI Vortex's pre-MCBR 180 turn - that thing is MEAN

drachen
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