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Overdue WDW TR

MommaBeast MommaBeast Profile

Posted:
11/20/06 at
9:45:53 AM

My kids and I (ranging in ages from 11 to 16) opted for a weeklong adventure at WDW back in June. Many thanks to those from this board who answered my questions and gave wonderful tips to make our adventure even better. We'd been to WDW before, but only to Magic Kingdom, so all the other parks would be new-to-us and we were very excited. If you'll recall, I was in a quandary as to whether or not WDW was 'age-appropriate' for my teens.

Below is a condensed re-cap of our experience:

WHAT'S HOT - General

1. The weather in Florida in June! Gee golly gosh did we ever get scorched! RobLec...you warned us and Sir Willow...I remember both you and Rob 'intervening' to pull this Momma outta the parks mid-day to relax poolside at the resort. Advice taken! Temps were regulary in the mid-90's the entire week.
2. The Carribean Resort! Truly a lush, tropical island-lover's getaway. Immaculate grounds, every room detail tended to...you get the picture: it was the Disney Touch all the way around. We asked for a non-smoking room and to our dismay, the room wreaked with smoker's residue in the air, the curtains, the furniture, etc. Not to worry! Disney staff was right on it with some kind of electrical device that virtually 'erased' any tell-tale sign that smoke was ever in the room.
3. Disney Transporation! Wooo-hooo can I say enough about this wonderful resort perk! How *g-l-o-r-i-o-u-s* it was to let Disney do ALL the driving the entire time we were there. I can't stress enough how much of a stress-reliever this is and how well-worth paying the extra dough to stay in a resort hotel is. After driving from Indianapolis non-stop, you'd better believe I was eager for this perk.
4. Free refills on drinks at the resort's on-site restaurant. Teen-agers and sodas can break this Momma's bank and this was a well-spent $48 bucks for all of us to drink as much as we wanted while lounging at the pool or our room.
5. Disney's Fast Pass System. Yee-ha the way to go and we used it at every opportunity. Many times, though, the Fast Pass was 'temporarily out of order' for a particular ride/attraction -OR- all of them were gone by the time we got there. Ahhh...such is life. Still a good thing IMHO.
6. Resort perks --- all of em! From early park entrance to late park hours, from Disney doin' the driving to virtual luxury at your fingertips---this is the way to go. I can only *IMAGINE* how fantastic the uppercrust high-end resort parks are....*sigh*....as our moderate resort was to die-for.
7. Walt Disney World Parades & Fireworks --- all of em. While my kids sometimes acted like waiting and watching it was a pain, I'm sure that deep down inside they enjoyed it as much as I did (my sons, ages 15 and 16, would prolly eat worms before admitting that, lol). My daughter, 11, was more 'open' with her 'ooohs and ahhhhs' on the other hand. :>)

WHAT'S HOT - MAGIC KINGDOM
(Pirates of the Carribean under construction while we were there)

1. The Hall of Presidents. I remember this one from when I was a lil tyke and wanted my kids to experience the same awestruck countenance as I had watching the Disney animatronic robots. Yup, it hit them the same way! What a great lesson wrapped in a show.
2. Big Thunder Mtn Railroad. This ride was a fun one; the wait was fairly long in the relentless Florida heat, but we enjoyed the wind whipping through our hair as it zipped along the winding track. And as much as we failed trying to find *LOTS* of 'Hidden Mickeys', we did spot the one on this ride! Wooo-hooo, chalk one up for us.
3. The Haunted Mansion. Truly a classic and one I distinctly and fondly recall from my own youth. My teens enjoyed this one as well.
4. Space Mountain. Never got to ride this one on my previous visits to Magic Kingdom so I made sure to ride it this go-around. Not a disappointment at all! Very cool indeed. I think my son said the clearance was so low at one point of the ride that his hand touched the structure above him (either that or he has extra long arms---and well, to think of it, he *IS* tall and lanky!).
5. Splash Mountain. What a relief to be warned we'd be wet after waiting in that long sweltering line! Too bad none of us got really wet, though. Isn't that the way it is? When you want to get wet, it doesn't happen. *Sigh* The ride was still fun, though.
6. It's a Small World. Oh did I ever have to force my teen boys on this one, lol! Somehow, it is not what I remembered as a little kid. Maybe that's just my 45 y/o brain cells, I dunno. Glad we did it, but the SONG stuck in our heads the whole day....grrrr...
7. Jungle Cruise. Deserves an honorable mention, but our vote goes to Cedar Point's version of the same type of attraction as CP's kept us in stitches the entire cruise.

WHAT'S NOT HOT - MAGIC KINGDOM

1. Stitch's Great Escape. Come on, now! Though we are older than the ride was designed for, our minds were open to this experience. I've hooted and hollered in glee on kiddie coasters, so just because this was a young'un's attraction didn't daunt our determination to try it (and hopefully like it). That was not to be. This ride was sooooo lame in our collective opinions that we were surprised it got the hype it did. Two thumbs down from us.
2. Restaurants not open for the season in early June. WHA?? El Pirata Y El Perico Restaurant had an army of theme-dressed employees greeting and stopping everyone from entering their establishment because "they were not yet open for the season." Our mouths were soooo watering for Mexican food! Who ever heard of an on-site Disney restaurant NOT OPEN in June? Is there a 'Mexican Food Season' I'm not privy to? Gosh, clue me in folks cuz this threw us for a loop.

WHAT'S HOT - EPCOT CENTER

1. Soarin'! I wish I had this ride in my backyard. How exhilarating! Truly a Disney accomplishment NOT to be missed by anyone visiting Epcot. I could've re-ridden this one numerous times w/o ever tiring of it. Kids enjoyed it very much, too.
2. Mission: Space (the more intense side) --- Oh my gosh does this ride live up to *every* inch of hype it's ever received!! I can say with certainty that this is ONE RIDE that honest-to-God made me question whether or not my body could handle the G-forces. For a moment in time, I was scared that perhaps I'd bitten off more than I could chew. The quarters inside your personal 'capsule' are >>>thisclose<<< which made me uncomfortable as I'm not a fan of tight spaces. But that was nothin' compared to the tremendous pressure I felt on my chest as we 'rocketed skyward' on take-off. WOW oh WOW is all I can say! Unbelievable. Awesome. A Must-See/Must-Do. But definitely NOT for the faint-of-heart. We didn't even want to waste our time on the mild side. Give us the MAX is our motto!
3. Illuminations: Reflections of Earth. When an attraction can get your 15 y/o son to say, "Mom, I'm going to remember this all my life" you know Disney's got a winner. What a spectacular show---full of meaning and promise that I'm not ashamed to say brought a tear to this Momma's eye. Truly beautiful.

WHAT'S NOT HOT - EPCOT CENTER

1. Test Track. This really disappointed us. Somehow, 60 mph never felt so lame though Disney hypes this as 'one of its fastest rides.' And talk about a short ride!
2. Honey, I Shrunk the Audience. I suppose if you like all those "Honey, I..." movies, this would be right up your alley. We didn't find it too amusing. It was merely "OK" in our book---not anything we'd be eager to push on our friends. See it if you must, but don't say we didn't warn you, lol. Just our opinions, folks.
3. Living With The Land...not sure it belongs in the 'What's Not Hot' category, but I didn't feel like making a separate category of 'What's Odd.' We commenced this boat ride with an open mind, knowing it was a learning experience and we're all down for that. This attraction, though, was just 'odd'...not really informative, not really entertaining, but just enough something to pique your curiosity enough to embark on it.

WHAT'S HOT - ANIMAL KINGDOM
---Kali River Rapids was closed when we got there---

1. The whole concept and layout of this park. Very jungle-like and shady; a wonderful complement to the other Disney parks. We trekked the many animal trails that were offered and took lots of pictures here.
2. Expedition Everest - woooo-hooo! This was also well worth the hype we'd heard. Theming is fantastic and the ride ain't bad, either, lol. The backwards trek is a nice touch, Disney. Yeti another winner, WDW (booo...I couldn't resist! LOL).
3. It's Tough to be a Bug. Really cute special F/X with this one (is this the one where my bum was tickled by something under the seat??? This Momma let out a holla followed by rollicking laughter). Fun for adults; fun for kids of all ages.
4. Dinosaur. Not a bad ride. As a matter of fact, we found ourselves on it a couple of times during our weeklong stay. Was kind of disappointed in the animatronics on this one, though --- didn't seem quite up to Disney standards. Still a fun ride and a good excuse to get off your tired feet for a spell.
5. Kilamanjaro Safaris. Although our Disney driver delivered her well-memorized speech in an annoying, sometimes too soft-spoken, monotone drone, the animals we enjoyed along the way made up for her lack of enthusiasm. Lots of pics taken along this route, too. Expect a bumpy ride.
6. The Tree of Life. Awe-inspiring to behold - many Kodak moments here. 'Nuff said.

WHAT'S NOT HOT - ANIMAL KINGDOM

1. Perhaps the only 'downer' we could find with this park was the price of food --- but that's commonplace everywhere you go.

WHAT'S HOT - MGM STUDIOS

1. Lights, Motors, Action! Extreme Stunt Show. Highly entertaining, heart-throbbing action. The FP for this attraction was 'down' (grrrr) so we had to wait in line for almost 2 hours. Our seats were good; the actors were funny; and the sun was hot! Not to miss in our opinion. Truly fun to watch (we learned a few 'tricks of the trade' as well).
2. Star Wars Weekends - wow did we hit WDW at the right time! We're not hu-u-u-u-ge Star Wars fans, but fans nonetheless and this on-the-street show of human bands vs. the alien band (think Star Wars bar scene) was absolutely fantastic!! We danced in the streets --- imagine literal *THRONGS* of people line dancin' following the aliens' lead on stage---it was a sight to behold, truly funny, and mega, mega fun for all! Tons of Star Wars characters mingled throughout the crowd, flashbulbs from eager fans nearly blinded us, lol. What we found 'extra-terrestrially' amazing was the sub-culture such events brought out: adults/fans paying tribute to all that is *STAR WARS* by dressing the part, acting the part, speaking the part, etc., etc. Grey-haired men, middle-aged women, yuppies, you name it -- they were enmasse embarking on living out dreams that only these Star Wars mavens share. A time I'll never forget as I fondly recall my son and I dancin' in the street....
3. Twilight Zone Tower of Terror. Finally! We got to experience what everyone and his brother kept raving about. And we were NOT disappointed. I do not like drop rides, so I was going in "glass-half-empty" if you will. But this is sooo unlike drop rides that I actually enjoyed myself! Geauga Dog---while PKI's Drop Zone may bring me to my knees and make me scream like a baby, this bad boy of a ride redeemed drop rides for me all-around, lol!
4. Rock 'n' Roller Coaster. Since WDW is so coaster shy (more attractions and entertainment than actual thrill rides), we were eager to jump on this one. It didn't disappoint, but it didn't have that 'draw' to make us want to do it again, either. It was ok, fun, glad we did it, but other than that, mediocre in our opinions. Very sad indeed to learn of the lil lad's death on this ride just days after we'd left WDW. I can't imagine an amusement park day of fun turning into life-altering tragedy. But that is a whole other topic.
5. Indiana Jones Epic Stunt Spectacular! Not much the attraction/show type, (opting for thrill rides over attractions at every turn), we found ourselves mildly curious about this stunt show since 'Lights, Motors, Action!' blew us away earlier. While this one was FUNNY and entertaining in its own right, our nod goes to the former stunt show as being better. The unsuspecting 'audience member' they pull from the bleachers is truly a laugh-a-minute. Great stunts that I'm sure impressed my kids (and me too).
6. Hollywood and Vine eatery. Yum yum and scrumpdilly-ishous! Fabulous food selection, all of it mouth-watering delicious. Pricey at over $100 for the four of us, but man was it worth it! As impressed as we were with the place, the food, and the service, we quickly were brought down to earth as we witnessed a tyke of about 5 or 6 unable to dish out the mac-n-cheese with the spoon provided and instead proceeded to scrape out the food herself using her hand as a shovel. Management quickly took care of the unsanitary situation after we brought it to their attention (and after we chuckled, albeit gross as it was, lol). The Mother of the lil tyke pretended not to see what her daughter did -- it's HER I'd like to hog-tie. With this Fantastic meal came our 'Fantasmic' seating...more on that later...
7. Backlot Express Eatery - extremely delicious 'fast food' (don't miss their salads!) at an affordable price. We ate here twice it was so good. The lines ... oh the lines! Wish there was a FP system for food, hahaahaa.....

WHAT'S NOT HOT - MGM STUDIOS

1. Sounds Dangerous starring Drew Carey. What a waste of space! This was dull, boring, and just plain silly in our opinion. The storyline could put an insomniac to sleep for Pete's sake (whomever 'Pete' is). Grrrr....you can do better, Disney!
2. Of all the parks, this was prolly our least favorite---IF indeed we *HAD* to choose a 'least favorite.' It's jam-packed with attractions and shows, of which we're just not big fans of.
3. Fantasmic! Ok...I can hear the boos from fans of this attraction already. Honestly folks, this is our opinion and you are entitled to yours. I realize I'm prolly stepping on some kind of Disney Sacred Ground when I share our negative opinions about this attraction, but give me my say. I was encouraged by so many people 'not to miss' Fantasmic, and if at all possible, do the Hollywood and Vine thing in conjunction with the attraction. Well, as you know, we did the dining and thoroughly enjoyed ourselves. The 'special' seating that came with the dining experience wasn't really special at all. Why, there must have been HUNDREDS in the arena when we got there---and we crossed all our T's and dotted all our I's to 'get there early and get a good seat.' Whatever, such is life. That wasn't the most disappointing aspect of that evening. We did manage to >scooch< into decent seats (crowded and hot, but we were relatively close to the front. OH, and never mind that big pole that blocked some portion of our view). SPOILER HERE...do not continue to read if you haven't seen Fantasmic... Had someone told me that the gist of the show was animated scenes against a backdrop of waterspray, I probably would have passed on seeing this attraction. Maybe sheer curiosity would've enticed me to see it anyway, but notwithstanding, I *STILL* would've come away disappointed with the whole show. It's not what I expected, but honestly, I don't know what I expected other than to be entertained. I chalked it off to my age UNTIL my kids shared their same sentiments---long, hot, and kind of boring.
... ...uh ... ...
... ...hmmm ... ...
OK! Must be safe! Lightning didn't strike me for writing that! :>) For those of you who enjoy(ed) Fantasmic, more power to you. I'm glad you like(d) it. It just wasn't our cup of tea, nor did it live up to the hype we'd heard from so many. Ahhh...truly...to each his own.

That about wraps up our WDW high and low lights. If you've stuck with it this far, bless you!

We *did* come away with a general feeling...one that I was afraid of in the first place. While WDW is a magic adventure all itself, of which mere words cannot fully explain, it doesn't hold for us what WE look for in amusement parks: big-time thrills, lots of coaster action, record-breaking rides. But that's just us. I feared my teens wouldn't embrace WDW -- and I was right. My kids said they would choose another trip to US/IoA over WDW anyday (and we've been to US/IoA many times). Don't get us wrong; we had an unforgettable time at the Happiest Celebration Station on Earth---we had fun, laughter, good times and good memories. But it's just not someplace where we look at each other and say, "WOW! Can't wait to go back to WDW again!!!"

But we do look at each other and say, "Didn't we have fun at WDW?!" And if you look at the big picture, that's what it's all about. Glad we went? You bet! In a hurry to go back? Naw...not for a while...a long while. But I'm glad it'll be there when we do decide it's time for some of that Disney magic!

~MommaBeast
P.S. Tips we learned about and want to pass on: saving mega bucks on drinks by carrying those Kool-aid pre-mixed single serve packets with you everywhere! Iced water at the parks is free of course so whenever my 3 got thirsty (which was ALOT in that stifling Florida heat), they got an ice water and made flavorful, thirst-quenching drinks. Man did we go through boxes of those --- and at $1.50 per box, what a savings over in-parks drinks. I also packed our favorite trail mixes and non-melting snacks in snack-pack sized plastic bags to munch on throughout our stays at the parks to hold us over until the main big meal of the day. This also proved a money-saving venture. Thanks to all for the great tips and websites you directed me to pre-trip. :>)

Re: Overdue WDW TR by snoozypooh snoozypooh Profile at 11/20/06 12:52:36 PM

Hey, Mommabeast!

Awesome TR!! I got the same feelings about most everything you did except for Mission: Space at Epcot. I think I must have been in a faulty one, or something, because I thought it was B-O-R-I-N-G. It didn't give me any g-forces at all, and I was very disappointed. Yes, I went on the orange/red (motion) side, and not the green (non-motion) side. I didn't see Fantasmic, however - I think you would probably say, "Lucky for me," tee hee! - even though I had heard that I should.

And, just like you, I wasn't impressed with WDW. I am more of a thrill seeker, and, aside from Rock N Roller Coaster, and Expedition Everest, there really isn't anything there for me.... It is a wonderful place for families, but for thrill seekers? NOT!

Glad you had a good time overall, though, as did I. I went in June as well, for the ACE coaster convention. If it wasn't for the fact that our convention was being held there, I probably wouldn't have gone there...

Snoozypooh

Snoozypooh! by MommaBeast MommaBeast Profile at 11/20/06 5:53:41 PM

Hey, snoozypooh! Thanks for reading and responding to my TR...and for your kind words! Can't understand why Mission: Space was lame-O for you because I consider myself a pretty hearty thrill junkie (i.e., not much gets my adrenaline juices really flowin'!) and that one seriously made me second-guess my decision to ride it. It scared me; I feared I might have a heart attack. But it was a 'fun scare' if there is such a thing. Maybe you *did* get a clunker ride, I dunno.

Glad to hear someone agrees with me in terms of WDW not being their 'thrill-seekin' cup-o-tea. Wonderful for families and for those who really get into shows and attractions; lacking in the major thrills people like 'us' seek. But we already knew that going in, didn't we? :>)

You went in June, too, eh? Hottttt, wasn't it? :>\ Dang...I've been to Florida lots of times; guess I just don't remember it being that miserable in early June.

One question for you, though: do I know you by another name other than snoozypooh?

Again, thanks for reading and responding!

~MommaBeast

Re: Overdue WDW TR by RobLec RobLec Profile at 11/20/06 7:39:08 PM

Thanks for the great TR Mommabeast. The really great thing about reading a Disney TR is that one gets to relive one's own experiences there once again.

You're right - and most would likely agree - that WDW certainly isn't a thrill park, and is best enjoyed as a family. And it makes better memories rather than any thrill of the moment. Also best enjoyed when 5-10 years have passed between visits, unlike USF/IOA which I think we visited six times in five years.

And while I couldn't imagine visiting WDW every day for a month (which I've done at PKI without even realizing I'd done so) it certainly is a place where you can always look forward to returning to ... someday. For me I think my next visit probably won't come until maybe as a grandfather (not anytime soon, but I've asked my boys to please bring me along when that time comes).

BTW thank you for NOT exclaiming about how great Fastasmic is or might have been. We had to pass up on seeing it because the last hotel shuttle left before the show started. One of probably only two shows we didn't get to see - now I don't feel so bad about that.

Thanks for taking the time to write!

Re: Overdue WDW TR by ToddAllyn at 11/20/06 8:32:13 PM

Great trip report, MommaB. WDW was one of a bunch of parks I had the pleasure of visiting in 2006. I was there in January - which was nice to have pleasant weather during the day (and not bad at night) and an escape from Midwest winter. But in the off season more rides are closed for refurb. Stitch was closed, as was Test Track. (Doesn't sound like I missed much.) Splash Mountain was closing the second day we were there, so we made sure to get there the first (partial) day. Typhoon Lagoon was closed completely but Blizzard Beach was open.

I've got to agree with you about staying on site. We went the cheapest route - "value resorts" (Pop Century in my case.) Fine for two friends (fairly small rooms) - would have been cramped for a family. But loved Disney Transport. (Did rent a car from the on-site Alamo one day we were there to get off site and buy groceries. Rented the cheapest car, but they upgraded me to a convertable. That was fun!)

My only sad thing: Expedition Everest was in previews for season pass holders and Disney Vacation Club members. Difficult to see some people able to ride and being a coaster fanatic and not meeting the criteria. But it gives me reason to return.

Have to agree with almost all your comments:

Epcot:
Mission Space (awesome)
Soarin' (maybe we can shuttle the mobile version between your back yard and mine)
Kali River Rapids was open, but wasn't anything special. IMHO, Grizzly River Run at Disney's California Adventure was a better ride.

AK:
I found Dinosaur to just be rough. Indiana Jones at Disneyland uses the same technology, but to better effect.
I hope you got to see Lion King at AK. Incredible show.
The park layout - so not concrete city. Very nice!

MGM:
Lights! Motors! Action! (Wow! Didn't expect much and loved it!)
Indiana Jones Stunt Spectacular (I had done this when the park first opened, and didn't think much of it. The pacing was so slow. Don't know if it has improved, as we passed it this year.)
Rock N Roller (Good coaster for Disney.)
ToT (I, like many, prefer the WDW version over the DCA version.)
Fantasmic! (I agree - big deal - animation on sprays of water. Yawn.)

MK:
Maybe I've just gotten too old for this park. It has its charms but nothing that really grabs me. Ironically, I feel completely different about DL. Maybe it is the extremely small size that totally immerses you (esepcailly since you know that a huge city lurks outside the walls, but you can't really see it.)

Doesn't sound like you got to go to Disney Quest. (We had the water parks and more option.) Disney Quest was worth it for the roller coaster simulator alone. You design your own coaster, then basically get into a human gyroscope and "ride" your coaster including the visuals of the ride you created. (And yes, they suckered me into buying the DVD.) If you go back to US/IoA, you might want to consider driving out to Downtown Disney for a day at Disney Quest. (The boys will love it.)

Again, thanks for the awesome TR.

Todd

Welcome to Roller Coaster World

Hey, RobLec! by MommaBeast MommaBeast Profile at 11/20/06 9:07:54 PM

Hey, friend! My comments throughout:

> Thanks for the great TR Mommabeast. The really great thing
> about reading a Disney TR is that one gets to relive one's
> own experiences there once again.

You are so right --- I *always* re-live my own personal experiences with every TR I read. It's very therapeutic, especially since this is the off-season (and speaking of therapeutic, hope that knee is mending better than expected).

> You're right - and most would likely agree - that WDW
> certainly isn't a thrill park, and is best enjoyed as a
> family. And it makes better memories rather than any thrill
> of the moment.

So true, so very true indeed. I won't soon forget the special bonding that took place during our WDW trip.

Also best enjoyed when 5-10 years have
> passed between visits, unlike USF/IOA which I think we
> visited six times in five years.

Agreed totally here.

> And while I couldn't imagine visiting WDW every day for a
> month (which I've done at PKI without even realizing I'd
> done so) it certainly is a place where you can always look
> forward to returning to ... someday. For me I think my next
> visit probably won't come until maybe as a grandfather (not
> anytime soon, but I've asked my boys to please bring me
> along when that time comes).

I've joked with my kids that there may come a time when I can't do the parks like I used to (age-related issues mainly) to which my son replied, "That's what wheelchairs are for, Mom. You will still go with us...." So I hear ya Rob, be it grandkids and/or wheelchairs---bring us along please...

> BTW thank you for NOT exclaiming about how great Fastasmic
> is or might have been. We had to pass up on seeing it
> because the last hotel shuttle left before the show
> started. One of probably only two shows we didn't get to
> see - now I don't feel so bad about that.

You definitely should take comfort in knowing you really didn't miss much. How I explained it is how the show unfolded. It was almost 'odd' I might go as far to say.

> Thanks for taking the time to write!

Thank YOU for taking the time to read and respond. Take care friend & keep in touch.

~MommaBeast

Thanks for reading & responding, Todd! by MommaBeast MommaBeast Profile at 11/20/06 9:31:41 PM

> Great trip report, MommaB.

Thank you!

WDW was one of a bunch of parks
> I had the pleasure of visiting in 2006. I was there in
> January - which was nice to have pleasant weather during
> the day (and not bad at night) and an escape from Midwest
> winter. But in the off season more rides are closed for
> refurb. Stitch was closed, as was Test Track. (Doesn't
> sound like I missed much.) Splash Mountain was closing the
> second day we were there, so we made sure to get there the
> first (partial) day. Typhoon Lagoon was closed completely
> but Blizzard Beach was open.

I often toyed with going to WDW in the ugly cold winter months (midwest here too) but didn't want to run into the situation you described: many rides down for refurb. How fun would that be?!?

IMHO, you really didn't miss much --- moreso with Stitch than with Test Track most would agree. Neither held my fancy though.

> I've got to agree with you about staying on site. We went
> the cheapest route - "value resorts" (Pop Century
> in my case.) Fine for two friends (fairly small rooms) -
> would have been cramped for a family. But loved Disney
> Transport. (Did rent a car from the on-site Alamo one day
> we were there to get off site and buy groceries. Rented the
> cheapest car, but they upgraded me to a convertable. That
> was fun!)

Yeah..we tossed up the idea of staying at a Value Resort or splurging a little and going the 'Moderate' route. It came down to this: more time at WDW & a better resort -OR- less time at WDW, Value Resort, with added waterpark and DisneyQuest. It was a tough decision, but we opted for the longer stay at WDW at the Carribean, foregoing the waterparks and DQ. *REALLY* wanted to do DQ, though---since we could design and 'ride' our own invention! Darn it...maybe next time.

> My only sad thing: Expedition Everest was in previews for
> season pass holders and Disney Vacation Club members.
> Difficult to see some people able to ride and being a
> coaster fanatic and not meeting the criteria. But it gives
> me reason to return.

Oh this would be a hard one to swallow! Ouch...I feel for ya, friend. Being there and not able to experience it...grrrr!

> Have to agree with almost all your comments:

> Epcot:
> Mission Space (awesome)
> Soarin' (maybe we can shuttle the mobile version between
> your back yard and mine)

LOL! You can have it every OTHER month. Is that OK with you? Man, was this ride ever relaxing and smooooth, and just made you go, "Ahhhhhhhhhhhh.......!"

> AK:
> I hope you got to see Lion King at AK. Incredible show.
> The park layout - so not concrete city. Very nice!

Kids had long since tired of 'kiddie' shows so there was no way I was going to persuade them to see Lion King. They even passed on the Narnia ride (but my son loved the movie---go figure). Even *IF* the LK was fun for all ages, the name alone conjured up moans and groans from my kids when I mentioned seeing it (lol).

> MGM:
> Lights! Motors! Action! (Wow! Didn't expect much and loved
> it!)
> Indiana Jones Stunt Spectacular (I had done this when the
> park first opened, and didn't think much of it. The pacing
> was so slow. Don't know if it has improved, as we passed it
> this year.)
> Rock N Roller (Good coaster for Disney.)
> ToT (I, like many, prefer the WDW version over the DCA
> version.)
> Fantasmic! (I agree - big deal - animation on sprays of
> water. Yawn.)

Hey....great minds think alike! Seems we're pretty much in agreement on this park. The pacing of the Indiana Jones stunt show moved at a pretty good clip; lots of slapstick comedy to fill in 'awkward' gaps between scene changes. Evenso, the stunt track attraction was better than this one.

> MK:
> Maybe I've just gotten too old for this park. It has its
> charms but nothing that really grabs me. Ironically, I feel
> completely different about DL. Maybe it is the extremely
> small size that totally immerses you (esepcailly since you
> know that a huge city lurks outside the walls, but you
> can't really see it.)

Ya, have to say that MK was the least visited park on our agenda that week. The Electric Parade was cool, as were the spectabulous fireworks as only Disney can do. I haven't been to DisneyLand so I have nothing to compare WDW to in that respect.(Oh to get to CA for 'X!!!')

> Again, thanks for the awesome TR.

Thanks much for your kind words and for taking the time to read and respond! It is appreciated.

~MommaBeast

Re:Overdue WDW TR by Overbanked Overbanked Profile at 11/21/06 3:05:55 AM

That was the best TR that I ever read! It was filled with tons of personality, and it was one hundred percent fluff-free. The "What's hot, What's not" segments were very accurate. I had went to WDW August of this year, and reading this TR was like a recollection of that trip.

Thanks for the great TR Mommabeast.

Chris.

Wow, Chris...thanks! by MommaBeast MommaBeast Profile at 11/21/06 12:57:59 PM

> That was the best TR that I ever read!

Dang...such a wonderful compliment! *blushes*
Thank you so much for your kindness...!
:>)

It was filled with
> tons of personality, and it was one hundred percent
> fluff-free. The "What's hot, What's not" segments
> were very accurate.

Thanks yet again. I call 'em like I see 'em which at times has ruffled feathers around here. I always indicate that my expressions are my opinions, of which everyone is rightfully entitled to, but some get uncomfortable when TR's aren't full of purely positive experiences. Hey! Life isn't always positive - and neither are our amusement park ventures.

I had went to WDW August of this year,
> and reading this TR was like a recollection of that trip.

I can only imagine the heat you suffered through in August ... and I thought June was bad! Ay yi yi!

> Thanks for the great TR Mommabeast.

Thank *YOU* for your kind comments and for reading it and taking the time to respond. It is greatly appreciated.

~MommaBeast

Re: Snoozypooh! by snoozypooh snoozypooh Profile at 11/21/06 1:31:50 PM

> Hey, snoozypooh! Thanks for reading and responding to my
> TR...and for your kind words!

No worries, Mommabeast. You are very welcome. I have been reading the posts on this board for just about two years now, and I have to admit that I really enjoy reading your TR's.

> Can't understand why Mission:
> Space was lame-O for you because I consider myself a pretty
> hearty thrill junkie (i.e., not much gets my adrenaline
> juices really flowin'!) and that one seriously made me
> second-guess my decision to ride it. It scared me; I feared
> I might have a heart attack. But it was a 'fun scare' if
> there is such a thing. Maybe you *did* get a clunker ride,
> I dunno.

I have to say that if you enjoyed Mission:Space so much, I must have gotten a clunker ride, darn it!! I do know what you mean by "fun scare" as well. I like those too - tee hee... :)

> Glad to hear someone agrees with me in terms of WDW not
> being their 'thrill-seekin' cup-o-tea. Wonderful for
> families and for those who really get into shows and
> attractions; lacking in the major thrills people like 'us'
> seek. But we already knew that going in, didn't we? :>)

Yes, we knew it. Like I said if the ACE convention wasn't there, I probably would not have gone, although we did go to Cypress Gardens, and Busch Gardens Africa as well, and I got to hit SFKK on the way down, so…

> You went in June, too, eh? Hottttt, wasn't it? :>\
> Dang...I've been to Florida lots of times; guess I just
> don't remember it being that miserable in early June.

It was my first time in Florida, and it was very HOT! I came back to 80 degree weather in Chicago, and I was actually FREEZING!!!!! A lot of members of ACE didn't attend the convention because they knew how hot it would be in June, but that was just fine by me, because there were less people to ride during our ERT's. :)

> One question for you, though: do I know you by another name
> other than snoozypooh?

I think I responded to one or two of your posts before, but I really don't post very often. My real name is Susan, though, but don't tell anyone - tee hee!! :-)

> Again, thanks for reading and responding!

> ~MommaBeast

>

Re: Snoozypooh! by beastmaster beastmaster Profile at 11/21/06 6:39:54 PM

> I think I responded to one or two of your posts before, but
> I really don't post very often. My real name is Susan,
> though, but don't tell anyone - tee hee!! :-)

Sorry, snoozypooh/Sus!...it's too late for not telling anyone your name...there's some crazy people out there!
Told ya I'd read it!..the "tee-hee fairy" STRIKES AGAIN!..but it's all in fun....no worries, right?

P.S..nice job, Mommabeast!

Mike

>

* This Post Has Been Modified *

Strange about Mission: Space --- by MommaBeast MommaBeast Profile at 11/22/06 6:40:11 AM

> No worries, Mommabeast. You are very welcome. I have been
> reading the posts on this board for just about two years
> now, and I have to admit that I really enjoy reading your
> TR's.

Thanks again...
:>)

> I have to say that if you enjoyed Mission:Space so much, I
> must have gotten a clunker ride, darn it!! I do know what
> you mean by "fun scare" as well. I like those too
> - tee hee... :)

I wonder: has anyone else had a less-than-expected spin on Mission: Space? Have there been reported incidents of merely mediocre rides on this thing? (Using the more intense side, of course).

> Yes, we knew it. Like I said if the ACE convention wasn't
> there, I probably would not have gone, although we did go
> to Cypress Gardens, and Busch Gardens Africa as well, and I
> got to hit SFKK on the way down, so…

How was that dive coaster?! Though BG-Africa held nothing to draw us back there ever again, this dive bomber made me think twice about re-visiting. If they could just replace *all* the rude employees...lol...

> I think I responded to one or two of your posts before, but
> I really don't post very often. My real name is Susan,
> though, but don't tell anyone - tee hee!! :-)

OK...thanks for clearing that up. I thought maybe your user name had changed or something.

No worries...
:>)

~MommaBeast

Thanks, Mike! ... n/m... *NM* by MommaBeast MommaBeast Profile at 11/22/06 6:41:46 AM

Re: Overdue WDW TR by junebugg junebugg Profile at 11/22/06 4:45:59 PM

Hey MommaB,

Great TR as always! I went to Orlando in May though I didn't get to do as much as you did! Reading this TR makes me wanna go back right now!

> WHAT'S HOT - ANIMAL KINGDOM

> 1. The whole concept and layout of this park. Very
> jungle-like and shady; a wonderful complement to the other
> Disney parks. We trekked the many animal trails that were
> offered and took lots of pictures here.

I love DAK! Especially the bamboo forest once you walk through the entrance and going way down to the bottom of the tree to catch "It's Tough To Be A Bug."

> 2. Expedition Everest - woooo-hooo! This was also
> well worth the hype we'd heard. Theming is fantastic and
> the ride ain't bad, either, lol. The backwards trek is a
> nice touch, Disney. Yeti another winner, WDW (booo...I
> couldn't resist! LOL).

I love this ride. This is definitely Disney's best coaster IMO. The winding backwards trek was fun and the drop out of the mountain was great.

> 3. It's Tough to be a Bug. Really cute special F/X
> with this one (is this the one where my bum was tickled by
> something under the seat??? This Momma let out a holla
> followed by rollicking laughter). Fun for adults; fun for
> kids of all ages.

My favorite is when Miss "Claire de Room" Stinkbug marches out and farts on the crowd!

> 4. Dinosaur. Not a bad ride. As a matter of fact, we
> found ourselves on it a couple of times during our weeklong
> stay. Was kind of disappointed in the animatronics on this
> one, though --- didn't seem quite up to Disney standards.
> Still a fun ride and a good excuse to get off your tired
> feet for a spell.

I didn't care for this ride in May because it was annoyingly loud (at least where I was sitting). I think I'll bring earplugs next time so I can enjoy it more.

> WHAT'S HOT - MGM STUDIOS

> 3. Twilight Zone Tower of Terror. Finally! We got to
> experience what everyone and his brother kept raving about.

Best ride at WDW in my opinion! I can ride it all day! Its the one ride I always think about when I go to Orlando and its usually where I go when I do go down if I can fit any Disney park into my visits there. The Miss Piggy fountain there is hilarious too and I think I would have enjoyed Star Tours more if a "certain someone" in my group wasn't distracting me and yelling out all the dialogue during the ride.

I'm glad you had a great time! And as always its nice reading your TR's!

* This Post Has Been Modified *

Hello, junebugg!!!! by MommaBeast MommaBeast Profile at 11/22/06 10:29:02 PM

> Hey MommaB,

> Great TR as always! I went to Orlando in May though I
> didn't get to do as much as you did! Reading this TR makes
> me wanna go back right now!

LOL...thanks for the kudos.

> I love DAK! Especially the bamboo forest once you walk
> through the entrance and going way down to the bottom of
> the tree to catch "It's Tough To Be A Bug."

Exactly! Beautiful park indeed. And how about that view from the bridge of Expedition Everest? Some Kodak moments there for sure! And I agree with you --- it's the best coaster at WDW.

> and I think I would have enjoyed
> Star Tours more if a "certain someone" in my
> group wasn't distracting me and yelling out all the
> dialogue during the ride.

LOL! Did you happen to know this 'certain someone?'
:>)

> I'm glad you had a great time! And as always its nice
> reading your TR's!

Yes, we had fun and thanks for reading and responding. So good to see you still at URC.

~MommaBeast

Re: Hello, junebugg!!!! by junebugg junebugg Profile at 11/23/06 4:32:03 AM

> LOL! Did you happen to know this 'certain someone?'
> :>)

Oh Yes! He's a member of this board and BIG TIME Disney aficionado.

I'm gonna bring duct tape to cover his mouth next time! LOL

Re: Hello, junebugg!!!! by SirWillow SirWillow Profile at 12/3/06 4:56:54 PM

> LOL! Did you happen to know this 'certain someone?'
> :>)

> Oh Yes! He's a member of this board and BIG TIME Disney
> aficionado.

> I'm gonna bring duct tape to cover his mouth next time! LOL

It's not me! I promise, I promise! :)

Nice TR, and great to hear your thoughts and feelings about WDW. I hesitate to comment on to many things since it would be easy to take it the wrong way or read to much into it now that I work there. But suffice to say that there is something there for everyone, and it sounds like all of you found something that worked well for you. WDW isn't for everyone, or necessarily for all of the time. We love it, my whole family now spends a bunch of time there with me working there. But it's also always looking for that new little thing that we haven't done yet- whether at the parks, the resorts, or other areas.

Happy your trip went well though. Oh, and off season is actually a great time to visit. They normally manage to limit how many things are on refurb, so it's only one or two things in each park at a time- not very noticeable. And the weather during the late fall through early spring is awesome! Even if it's not WDW, it's a great time to visit the other Florida parks.

Thanks again for posting up the TR!

Hi, Sir Willow! by MommaBeast MommaBeast Profile at 12/4/06 3:08:02 PM

> Nice TR, and great to hear your thoughts and feelings about
> WDW. I hesitate to comment on to many things since it would
> be easy to take it the wrong way or read to much into it
> now that I work there.

You work @ WDW?!?! How cool is that! Where exactly, and what do you do? Being employed by THEE Mouse would definitely put a different spin on things---I've always thought my enthusiasm and deep desire for everyone to have fun would make me a good candidate for working at a park...hmmmm....

> But suffice to say that there is
> something there for everyone, and it sounds like all of you
> found something that worked well for you.

Each of us certainly *DID* walk away with something special from WDW; that cannot be denied.

>WDW isn't for
> everyone,

It isn't?!?!?! Bite your tongue, lol!

>We love it,
> my whole family now spends a bunch of time there with me
> working there.

Again...how wonderful is that? Very envious, friend.
:>)

> Happy your trip went well though.

It did, indeed. Florida is probably our fave destination anyway, and we made the most of it while there: after a week at WDW, we traversed the state (through the tropical storm/squall that came through towards the end of our stay) and visited Daytona Beach for a couple of days and headed over to Panama Beach to indulge ourselves in the best beach Florida has to offer (ssshhh...don't tell anyone it's @ Grayton Beach, about 30-35 miles west of Panama).

Oh, and off season is
> actually a great time to visit. They normally manage to
> limit how many things are on refurb, so it's only one or
> two things in each park at a time- not very noticeable.

That is good to know. The way others describe going in the off-season, it sounded like "Why Bother?" because so many rides/attractions were down. Thanks for clearing that up.

> Thanks again for posting up the TR!

Thank YOU for taking the time to read and respond! And, uh, hey...do they have any openings where you're at?
;>)

~MommaBeast

Re: Hi, Sir Willow! by SirWillow SirWillow Profile at 12/5/06 6:47:31 AM

> You work @ WDW?!?! How cool is that! Where exactly, and
> what do you do? Being employed by THEE Mouse would
> definitely put a different spin on things---I've always
> thought my enthusiasm and deep desire for everyone
> to have fun would make me a good candidate for working at a
> park...hmmmm....

I'm one of the photographers. Normally I'm over at the Disney Studios, but I bounce around also to Magic Kingdom and some of the character meals. Also got to take pictures of Santa the other day. Trust me, it's a blast! Would easily fill in as my dream job, and I have sooooo much fun doing it.

> >WDW isn't for
> everyone,

> It isn't?!?!?! Bite your tongue, lol!

LOL. Much as I hate to say it... Usually it's those that aren't into "being a kid" that have a hard time with Disney, if you know what I mean. Just as we thought your teens might. Many will still enjoy it, and find things they like, but there are some that just have a hard time letting down their "cool factor" walls enough. And some just don't enjoy the fantasy and imagination.

At the same time though, I've seen grandmother crying in excitement over meeting Mickey for the first time. I think that most would have an incredible time at the Disney parks, but there's always a few...

> >We love it,
> my whole family now spends a bunch of time there with me
> working there.

> Again...how wonderful is that? Very envious, friend.
> :>)

After years of dreaming and never being able to afford it, trust me, we're certainly enjoying it. Trivia fact they drill into you here at Disney- the average family saves 5 or more years to be able to afford their Disney vacation. :)

> Oh, and off season is
> actually a great time to visit. They normally manage to
> limit how many things are on refurb, so it's only one or
> two things in each park at a time- not very noticeable.

> That is good to know. The way others describe going in the
> off-season, it sounded like "Why Bother?" because
> so many rides/attractions were down. Thanks for clearing
> that up.

I remember reading those two, but then when I started to look at it a bit more closely, the "long lists" end up only being a couple of things at each park. It looks bad when you see 8-10 things on a list closed, but when you realize that those are spread among 4 parks (and sometimes the water parks also), it's not so bad. And there's still more than enough other stuff to do that will keep you plenty occupied.

Frankly I really like it because the lines are much shorter, and you're not having to bang shoulders anytime you walk around.

> Thank YOU for taking the time to read and respond! And, uh,
> hey...do they have any openings where you're at?
> ;>)

As a matter of fact... my department is finishing up a major hiring push, but they're always hiring. My job is one of the higher paid entry level positions you can get, but depending on what you want to do and what pay level you want, there is usually something available. While I know you're joking, I did give up public school teaching to do ithis, and the pay isn't that much less (not to mention a whole heck of a lot less stressful, less time intensive, less frustrating, and a ton more fun) But if anyone was seriously interested in a job (and people do move down here just to work at the mouse) I'd be more than happy to be a source of help and/or info. :)

ok, recruiting pitch done. Just let me know when you might be back down in the area again! :)

Re: Overdue WDW TR by Pete_C at 12/5/06 4:38:15 PM

Great TR! I grew up going to Disney, and then left it during my teens and most of my twenties preferring big thrills. However, as I get older I find myself preferring Disney to anything else. I am starting to see the true genius of Disney. I love a great hardcore rollercoaster, but these days I can usually do an entire theme park in a half-day and be done with it. When I finish a trip to Disney, I find myself not wanting to leave. It's a certain feeling that I get from no other park. IOA doesn't even come close in this respect, though it does have excellent rides and theming. Take, for example, Space Mountain vs Hulk. My coaster enthusiast side says Hulk destroys this little coaster, yet...why am I smiling and cheering more when I exit Space Mountain? I had the same experience on Expedition Everest...a tame coaster by most standards, however I'd take a spin on EE over Dueling Dragons on most days. I have done so many inverted coasters over the years that I now value a different experience to just another variation on the garden variety loop sequence. DD gets points for the best queue of all time though, and Spiderman is one ride that takes a back seat to nothing. Overall IOA is a stunning piece of theming, but I don't think Universal Studios is nearly as good as IOA.

As for the big thrill parks, I have almost become numb to everything but the most hardcore of hardcore rides...rides like TTD, KK, El Toro, Voyage, and S:ROS. Those rides still thrill me, but others are starting to be a bit ho-hum. When I go to Disney I enjoy everything, and every time I go I find some new detail or nuance that I never saw before. That's Disney magic to me.

Re: Overdue WDW TR by lost_boy at 12/5/06 9:00:22 PM

Great trip report!!!! I enjoyed your format very much. It was interesting to see both your likes and dislikes.

It's been a few years since I've visited WDW. I think that, as a whole, WDW doesn't pack really big thrills (subjective I know but bear with me here). It appears to me that the target audience is more family friendly here. The trick is to be really exciting for small kids and be intriguing enough to keep the older thrill seekers entertained.

To me what makes WDW one of the very best amusements is the overall experience. I mean you never see the attention to detail that WDW offers with all of thier attractions. You can go to Cedarpoint, or other parks, and experience much bigger thrills. But at WDW its a total emersion experience. The attention to detail is phenominal. You wont find that anywhere else.

Pete C: by MommaBeast MommaBeast Profile at 12/6/06 5:59:19 PM

> Great TR!

A humble thank you!

I grew up going to Disney, and then left it
> during my teens and most of my twenties preferring big
> thrills. However, as I get older I find myself preferring
> Disney to anything else. I am starting to see the true
> genius of Disney. I love a great hardcore rollercoaster,
> but these days I can usually do an entire theme park in a
> half-day and be done with it. When I finish a trip to
> Disney, I find myself not wanting to leave. It's a certain
> feeling that I get from no other park.

It's that Disney Magic that brings all of us back at some time or another...must be the pixie dust Tinkerbell sprinkles on us as she descends the Magic Kingdom castle during the fireworks extravaganza.

IOA doesn't even
> come close in this respect, though it does have excellent
> rides and theming. Take, for example, Space Mountain vs
> Hulk. My coaster enthusiast side says Hulk destroys this
> little coaster, yet...why am I smiling and cheering more
> when I exit Space Mountain?

Very good point, indeed.

I had the same experience on
> Expedition Everest...a tame coaster by most standards,
> however I'd take a spin on EE over Dueling Dragons on most
> days.

While I thoroughly enjoyed EE, I drool over all that is DD --- theming, leg choppers, super fun thrills. And a choice of two different rides on one coaster. But I understand what you're saying.

I have done so many inverted coasters over the years
> that I now value a different experience to just another
> variation on the garden variety loop sequence. DD gets
> points for the best queue of all time though, and Spiderman
> is one ride that takes a back seat to nothing.

No argument about Spiderman from me. Best ride of that type that I've been on.

Overall IOA
> is a stunning piece of theming, but I don't think Universal
> Studios is nearly as good as IOA.

Agreed. IoA is our first choice, then US.

> As for the big thrill parks, I have almost become numb to
> everything but the most hardcore of hardcore rides...rides
> like TTD, KK, El Toro, Voyage, and S:ROS.

Me too. Though there are those not-so-new rides that still get my adrenaline crankin: MF for one.

Those rides still
> thrill me, but others are starting to be a bit ho-hum. When
> I go to Disney I enjoy everything, and every time I go I
> find some new detail or nuance that I never saw before.
> That's Disney magic to me.

Very well put indeed. Disney is an immersion (if you allow that pixie dust to rest on your shoulders) of a 'total park experience' that can't be duplicated at your run-of-the-mill amusement venues. If patrons can learn to suspend reality while enjoying WDW, a whole new world of fun unfolds around them.

Let's just say this: if you visit WDW and don't walk away with at least ONE MAGIC MOMENT to remember for a lifetime, check your pulse.

~MommaBeast, who says 'thank you' for reading and responding.

Thanks lost boy! by MommaBeast MommaBeast Profile at 12/7/06 2:38:57 PM

> Great trip report!!!! I enjoyed your format very much. It
> was interesting to see both your likes and dislikes.

Thanks for your input!
:>)

> It's been a few years since I've visited WDW. I think that,
> as a whole, WDW doesn't pack really big thrills (subjective
> I know but bear with me here). It appears to me that the
> target audience is more family friendly here. The trick is
> to be really exciting for small kids and be intriguing
> enough to keep the older thrill seekers entertained.

Ya, and we knew that going in. All of us still extracted some Disney Magic from the whole experience though.

> To me what makes WDW one of the very best amusements is the
> overall experience. I mean you never see the attention to
> detail that WDW offers with all of thier attractions.

Attention to detail is what stuck out most in my mind when I remembered visiting it as a pre-teen. Every bulb lit, every actor/actress looking just like the Disney character they were hired to portray, fresh paint, no rust, etc., etc. I guess that's why some of the attractions (that I thought were lame) disappointed me so. It just wasn't up to Disney standards of perfection in my opinion (i.e., the Dinosaur ride with poorly animated mechanical dinosaurs, and the Drew Carey show that was so mind-numbing dumb and boring).

You
> can go to Cedarpoint, or other parks, and experience much
> bigger thrills. But at WDW its a total emersion experience.
> The attention to detail is phenominal. You wont find that
> anywhere else.

Gotta agree with ya there; 99% of the time WDW delivers in the detail department.

Thanks for reading and responding...!

~MommaBeast

Re: Strange about Mission: Space --- by RobLec RobLec Profile at 12/8/06 8:36:35 AM

> How was that dive coaster?! Though BG-Africa held nothing
> to draw us back there ever again, this dive bomber made me
> think twice about re-visiting. If they could just replace
> *all* the rude employees...lol...

I remember reading your TR from BGT and was sorry that your experience there was less than fantastic. We've visited BGT numerous times and have always had a wonderful time.

Rude employees? They probably didn't keep their jobs very long.

BGT and Rude Employees by MommaBeast MommaBeast Profile at 12/8/06 9:49:59 AM

> I remember reading your TR from BGT and was sorry that your
> experience there was less than fantastic. We've visited BGT
> numerous times and have always had a wonderful time.

> Rude employees? They probably didn't keep their jobs very
> long.

There must've been a banner season for rude employees at BGT at that time because I recall reading several trip reports where visits to the park were less than stellar....as a matter of fact, there was a lot of complainin' goin' on.

So hopefully, you are right as rain and those bad apples have been banished from BGT, errr, BGA as it were, lol.

Glad you've had pleasant visits there. That evens out the spectrum a bit and gives those of us on the raw end of the service stick something to ponder when reconsidering a return visit.

~MommaBeast