Kennywood's next coaster.......Opinions?

Kennywood is my home park and overall is one of the best parks I have had the pleasure of visiting. Their current roller coaster arsenal, in my view, is top notch! A kiddie, three top-notch classic wooden gems, an awesome wild mouse with cool theming, and quite frankly one of the BEST, and easily the most underrated (in my humble opinion), hypercoasters around in Phantom's Revenge.

Anyone who has ever been to Kennywood knows that they pride themselves in having a traditional, family atmosphere with rides, including their coasters, that appeal to the largest demographic of riders possible. Let's face it, Kennywood will never become a "thrill park" on the same scale as a Cedar Point or a Six Flags. That's just not their way, and I wouldn't want the park to become one either. Frankly, they don't have the capital or space to continually stuff the park full of coasters. And that's fine with me, because I like Kennywood the way it is. However,.....

That all being said, I often wonder what their next roller coaster may be. Their last totally NEW installation was the Exterminator in 1999. In 2001, of course, they introduced Phantom's Revenge, but that was more of a transformation, as about half of the old Phantom was retained and just repainted. So, I'm curious what everyone's thoughts are (particularly those who have been there and know the lay of the land) on what the park's next new coaster should be. Here are my thoughts for possibilities:

1.) A steel impulse coaster, preferably one that has both towers twisted. This seems like it could be a perfect fit, as these don't take up a huge footprint and they offer a unique and fun ride. Two possible locations are near the lost and found (there's a piece of land where they used to have a Balloon ride) and (my favorite) inside the curving 1st drop of Phantom's Revenge. How cool would that be? I think there'd be room between the Phantom track and the queue ramp, where now it's just a bunch of concrete that's kind of a dead space.

2.) Ideally, though the park has its family feel, I would like to see inversions return to Kennywood, but this time done right (not the high-octane, brutal Arrow inversions that were once present at the park). In my view, that means only one thing - a B&M! Although I like their newer floorless rides, I just think there are too many close by. My pick then would be a custom B&M Inverted coaster, along the lines of Talon or Great Brear (both of which were placed into relatively limited space). Where? Well, if the rumor is true that they are trying to acquire some land behind Exterminator, then I say right there. With one catch - have it utilize the same cliff/ravine that PR and T'Bolt already use! Imagine coming off the lift and then plunging deep down into the ravine alongside PR's turnaround! Toss in a cool 4-7 inversions and you got one incredible ride that would be the perfect addition to Kennywood. Ahhh, to dream!

3.) Of course, the park could always go wooden, but with 3 stellar ones already I kind of doubt that. Plus, wooden coasters take up a good bit more space. But, I'd hardly complain if a Thunderhead-like ride popped up!!

When might they get their next one? That's a very good question, one which I certainly can't answer. If I had to formulate a guess, I'd say somewhere in the 2006-2008 time frame, but we shall see. Those are just my thoughts on the subject, feel free to share yours!

I agree with you Nick, Kennywood is way over due for a decent size coaster. But I figure it won't happen anytime soon.

Kennywood hasn't been making a lot of money in the last few years. I know this because I have friends that work for the offices of the park. I also have to realize that they have 3 parks to add and subtract things too. Idewild and Sandcastle has to factor into that budget as well.

I would peronally love to see a B&M invert put into the park preferably back by the log jammer and racer.
However,I don't think they would put an impulse in. I would love a clone of wicked twister, but like you said Kennywood is a family park and it will never become a full-blown theme park. Which could happen but ya never know.
If I could have a dream coaster for Kennywood I would like to see some sort of B&M either invert, dive machine, or floorless. LOL!!! I can wish!!

Katie

I love Kennywood and feel that it is near perfect for all that it offers. It has the classic wooden coasters, an excellent hyper, a good collection of old and new flats, plenty of shade, and wonderful atmosphere. The only thing missing is a coaster with inversions.

A compact B&M coaster would be nice, either an invert or regular sit down. I know I'll probably get yelled at for this but a Vekoma Invertigo, i.e. PKI's Face/Off, would be a good addition. It takes a small footprint, has the inversions, and, IMO, the best ride that Vekoma has ever created.

G-Dog

Honestly, I'd like to see another wooden coaster at Kennywood

A Impulse that the back spike is out over the cliff would be neat also.

A standared wild mouse on the cliff edge.

Chuck

Kennywood is definately one of the greatest parks out there and one of the few class traditional parks left. You truely get a good feeling just by walking around the park.

You're completely right though Nick.. Phantoms Revenge is way underrated. Although it's pretty short it is easily in my Top 5... probably my fav. steel in PA now that I think about (sorry Storm Runner)

Do they still have JUST an old leather belt on the Jack Rabbit?

Anyways, next coaster Hmmmm..

I could see a B&M Invert/Floorless going in behind Exterminator, I think it'd be an eye sore going in anywhere else in the park.

The Impulse idea would be great for the park.. and I'm sure they could figure out a way to extend the length and layout to take advantage of the terrain... no one ever said all Impulses have to be like Superman/WT.. Hmmmmm..

But, I think the next coaster will be another woodie.. brought to you by the Gravity Group. Kennywood just screams HEY! Boulderdash!! To me.. and if that be the case I think everyone would be happy, even though 4 wooden coasters seems like a lot.

Eric

> Do they still have JUST an old leather belt on
> the Jack Rabbit?

of course they do...im terrified everytime i ride that thing!!! knees always get a bruise too!

katie

Kennywood, the park that got me into the amusement bussiness, is the single best AMUSEMENT park in the world. They have a huge space issue, though. I doubt that they will put anything behind the T-bolt, mainly because there are a bunch of houses back there. I don't know how an invert would fit. Where would they put it? An impulse doesn't seem too likely either. What would you think about another famous Kennywood dark ride? That would be interesting.

What would you think about another famous Kennywood
> dark ride? That would be interesting.

I'm prolly gonna get yelled at for this one, but I don't think KW should do anything more with dark rides AT ALL!!!
I loved the old mill! It used to scare me as a young kid, no people not now. But what they did to that ride, DISGUSTS ME to no end!!!

GARFIELD'S NIGHTMARE....OMFG you have got to be kidding me?????

I actually rode on this stupid ride and was completely outraged at what they did to a 100 year old ride!
You would think that KW a well-respected park wouldn't sell itself out, but did they, oh yes they sure did!!
3-d, you have got to be kidding me!! It was totally stupid and the only way I would ever think about riding it again is if i was eating a poisonous mushroom.
So no I don't want another dark ride added to KW, I want another coaster, or a decent flat ride. King Kahuna was running some decent programs this summer. I think a huss swing would be a nice addition to Volcano Valley if they were gonna blow off another coaster being added.
--Katie

> What would you think about another famous
> Kennywood
> dark ride? That would be interesting.

> I'm prolly gonna get yelled at for this one, but
> I don't think KW should do anything more with
> dark rides AT ALL!!!
> I loved the old mill! It used to scare me as a
> young kid, no people not now. But what they did
> to that ride, DISGUSTS ME to no end!!!

> GARFIELD'S NIGHTMARE....OMFG you have got to be
> kidding me?????

> I actually rode on this stupid ride and was
> completely outraged at what they did to a 100
> year old ride!
> You would think that KW a well-respected park
> wouldn't sell itself out, but did they, oh yes
> they sure did!!
> 3-d, you have got to be kidding me!! It was
> totally stupid and the only way I would ever
> think about riding it again is if i was eating a
> poisonous mushroom.
> So no I don't want another dark ride added to KW,
> I want another coaster, or a decent flat ride.
> King Kahuna was running some decent programs this
> summer. I think a huss swing would be a nice
> addition to Volcano Valley if they were gonna
> blow off another coaster being added.
> --Katie

After finding out from family what they did to the Old Mill I decided to not spend any money or plan any visits to Kennywood, Idlewild or sandcastle this past summer. I can understand the park needed to do somethings to attract customers but when you mess with the history of the park like they did with the Old Mill they will not get my support. When they removed the Little Dipper coaster it took me years to return and the park was 8 miles from my house. Everyone that I know who visited the park this past summer had nothing good to say about the changes to the Old Mill.

Now to make an opinion on a new coaster, I read and then laugh at some who think Kennywood needs a looping coaster. Let me ask many of you, were you around the season Laser Loop opened or in the station when riders came back from being busted around on Steel Phantom? Kennywoods 2 experiences with looping coasters is well documented and to some a foolish move to try to build another even if B&M built it.
It's funny to read that Kennywood is competing with CP, GL and even Hershey, they are not and please keep that in mind. I would bet my left foot that they will not build a looping coaster and would be extremely surprised if they did.
Someone mentioned the land behind the Thunderbolt, yes they own much of that now but there are still people holding out on selling. I think what they are going to do is start moving much of their storage and other things that is behind the Racer and build back there. About 6 years ago rumors called for them to knock down the building attached to the Racer to open that space up but they didnt have any place for the storage. I think Kennywood has a 5 year plan sitting on the table which possibly has this situation in mind.

Kennywoods next ride is going to be a Wild Mouse set somewhere in lost Kennywood and some type of wooden coaster. They know people would ride a wooden coaster before and looping coaster. I think if they were smart pay Knoebels the half million for Whirlwind modify it and say here is your looper, you want to ride it ride it if you dont then ride our new wooden coaster.

I just shake my head when some think Kennywood is just going to drop $18 million on a looping coaster. With the economy of Allegheny County and surrounding areas in poor shape they need to be careful. Also keep in mind that people are moving out of this area in record numbers. The news 2 weeks ago stated "there was a 30% drop in home sales in Allegheny county", HELLO! Then to top that off the borough of West Mifflin slaps them with higher taxes not including the county, state etc etc etc. and to add to that the other 7 counties aren't doing too well neither.
Kennywood doesn't build like all the other parks but still draws crowds, they need to take their coaster planning very seriously and not drop the ball.

Patripman

Your right about the Garfield ride. I visited Kennywood over summer and took a ride on it. It sickened me at what had been done.

Now the King Kahuna was great. Put in another ride like that. They could have another popular, non-expensive ride. At least they wouldn't be spending as much as they would on a coaster. There are so many possibilities. They could think up something that people would love to ride. Look at their great flat rides. I had never seen anything like the Kangaroo before, and that is still one of my favorite rides in the park. I'm just saying that they don't have to add some new coaster to make the park better (it would be nice though).

I've come to be a huge K-wood/Idlewild fan in the last two years. The parks are perfectly sized and have so much more than just coasters for fun.

Regarding the next coaster, a big B&M or Intamin would dominate the park in a way that could take away from the current ambience (which the canNOT mess with - the place is near perfect)

As mentioned above, I would love to see a Boulder Dash type ride somehow off the cliff in the rear of the park. (Maybe the queue would start to the right of the Rafting adventure entrance. And I bet you could run one heck of a terrain woody even down around the rafting adventure and under/past the turnarounds for Phantom.) I know the current K-wood coasters are classified as "terrain", but there is no real Legend/Raven/Beast-like rides in this East Ohio/West PA region. So I'd pay an additional $2.00 per ticket for such a ride...

If they spring for a $15 million steely, then they have to put it on the perimeter of the park, so that it does not take away from the magic of the old feel of the park.

I'd rather see a Gravity Group "Legend" installed out past Mr. Roger's Neighborhood at Idlewild myself...

I've mentioned this before in posts of similar nature. I think a ride like Roller Soaker that interacts with the Raging Rapids might be something to look into.

A GCI terrain twister seems like a fantastic idea to me. Thunderhead type coaster at KP? Delicious.

Coasterman Mike

I live in Florida now, but I have been to Kennywood several times and am very familiar with the park. I think that a B&M invert would be great if they are very careful about the themeing. In another words, it has to appeal to the traditional feel of the park and maybe with a theme that reflects that.

Additionally, I have heard that Kennywood is entertaining the idea of taking out the log jammer and putting in a major coaster.

Whatever they decide to do, they have to keep in mind that they would be ignoring a large demographic of park-goers if they don't atleast consider putting in a state-of-the-art ride coaster in the park.

Ok, i enjoy reading all of the comments about Kennywood including it's future. I work at kennywood as a rides operator.

1.)Kennywood will NEVER get another wild mouse coaster becauce they already have an indoor one.

2.)They will NOT take out the log jammer because kennywood only has 3 water rides(not including the King Kahuna) That would be a very dumb move on their part.

*A possable solution*
right behind the train is a drop off/ cliff that goes down to the train tracks and to the river. Kennywood owns all of that land. Next year they are getting 2 rides. YES 2. the screaning Swing ride and a ride in kiddyland. sorry.

Anyway

Behind the train and going down the "hill" they could easily put a B&M coaster there. OR

Between the Racer and the Jackrabbit, there are some games. behind them are storage places for the mechanics. They are moving there wearhouses/garages this winter without telling the public. this would be anothe possible place for a new inverted coaster.

*one last thing...... I know people might be upset, but there is a lot of rumor in getting rid of the Racer! * i can hear the yells and complaints from here.* it is taking up so much space, it's disgusting. Ride it and you will see for yourself.

> *one last thing...... I know people might be upset, but
> there is a lot of rumor in getting rid of the Racer! * i
> can hear the yells and complaints from here.* it is taking
> up so much space, it's disgusting. Ride it and you will see
> for yourself.

Ok you might be a ride op. Hey that's great! If anything, they wouldn't take out the racer NOR the jack rabbit. I believe it is stupid on their part. Why would KW do that. That coaster has been thrilling and entertaining guests since 1927. I would be horrified if they did take it out. It is THE ONLY moebius (one track racing coasters) in the US. The only other I know is Grand National in BPPB (thanks Bill for that info).

If I were Kennywood, use the terrain to their advantage. It certainely works with PR, T-Bolt, and Jack Rabbit. Why can't it work for another coaster.

Racer is the best for enthusiasts, hand slapping galore. I love that coaster, and I hope it will be the first at Kennywood for my son.

I don't know what you think is wrong with Racer, it's not rough, it has so cool airtime, speed, and just plain fun. I would think you would defend rides at KW since you work there. Why would you want them to take out a RICH piece of their history? That is something I don't understand. Please explain this to me.

Katie

The has to be the craziest post I've ever read. I just want to get a few things straight.

"Kennywood hasn't been making a lot of money in the last few years" - Kennywood has been doing just fine. Although prices and taxes have seen a hike, they still manage a very good budjet. Just cause you do not see mulitmillion dollar rides every year doesn't mean they are not making money.

"After finding out from family what they did to the Old Mill I decided to not spend any money or plan any visits to Kennywood, Idlewild or sandcastle this past summer." - Wow thats pretty severe. The old mill needed restoration. They tried in recent years with updates but an overhaul to preserve the ride was essential. The old mill has seen lots of changes because of the times. So you don't like garfield, well I'm sure a few years down the road the ride will be changed maybe to a character to your preference. Every child I talked to getting off the ride loved it and I think thats all the matters. Just be thankful it was preserved.

"Kennywoods next ride is going to be a Wild Mouse set somewhere in lost Kennywood" - They beat you to it...Exterminator.

"I have heard that Kennywood is entertaining the idea of taking out the log jammer and putting in a major coaster." - I doubt this since they already invested a lot of money in this ride in recent years and it is still extremely popluar.

"down to the train tracks and to the river. Kennywood owns all of that land." - USS owns most of that land. There are problems with the land Kennywood does own down there including unstable terrain and zoning restrictions.

"I think there'd be room between the Phantom track and the queue ramp, where now it's just a bunch of concrete that's kind of a dead space" - That dead space is where the water and electrical line run for lost kennywood.

- Kennywood owns land/houses behind Lost Kennywood. For the last couple years rumors have floated about adding attractions back there. The problem is that the land is narrow and there are houses across the street. Kennywood has always been repectful to the homeowners. Even one of the reasons Exterminator is indoors. If Kennywood was to use the land it would be for storage.

- Kennywood always plans carefully. Trust them. The park has been there for over 100 years and continues to be popular for its size. I'm glad to see that they are investing in preservation. In reality thats what keeps local families comming to the park year after year and that is what Kennywood wants to happen.

> "Kennywood hasn't been making a lot of money in the
> last few years" - Kennywood has been doing just fine.
> Although prices and taxes have seen a hike, they still
> manage a very good budjet. Just cause you do not see
> mulitmillion dollar rides every year doesn't mean they are
> not making money.

Well they make money, they are spending wisely. But, they do need some kind of new coaster. It has been over 4 years since the over-haul of the Steel Phantom. They have room, but they choose not to use it, as of yet. Their last major expansion was lost Kennywood, in the mid to late 90's I can't remember when, honestly. They need something new. I know they are getting the screamin' swing. But hey it's my opinion.

> "After finding out from family what they did to the
> Old Mill I decided to not spend any money or plan any
> visits to Kennywood, Idlewild or sandcastle this past
> summer." - Wow thats pretty severe. The old mill
> needed restoration. They tried in recent years with updates
> but an overhaul to preserve the ride was essential. The old
> mill has seen lots of changes because of the times. So you
> don't like garfield, well I'm sure a few years down the
> road the ride will be changed maybe to a character to your
> preference. Every child I talked to getting off the ride
> loved it and I think thats all the matters. Just be
> thankful it was preserved.

Lemme guess, you are a ride operator, or work at the park right? Lemme tell you what, I hated what they did to a beaustiful 100 year old ride. It was THE worst thing they could have ever done. IMO! If they could have had Dafe come in, they would have done a fantastic job re-doing it. It's horrible now, and sometimes they don't even have the evil 3-d glasses. I refuse to ride it again. I won't even take MY kid on the thing. It is the principal of restoring and maintaining their history. Which hasn't been done with this ride.

> "I have heard that Kennywood is entertaining the idea
> of taking out the log jammer and putting in a major
> coaster." - I doubt this since they already invested a
> lot of money in this ride in recent years and it is still
> extremely popluar.

I doubt this either, Kennywood would not take out one of their decent water attractions. KW would be stupid to take out any ride older then 30 years. IMO.

> "down to the train tracks and to the river. Kennywood
> owns all of that land." - USS owns most of that land.
> There are problems with the land Kennywood does own down
> there including unstable terrain and zoning restrictions.

They could build a small terrain coaster where the train runs. It would have great cliffhangers. Do you work for USS to prove that they own the cliff by the train, I am almost positive that KW owns it. In fact I was under the impression owned most of the homes around the park, where year round employees live.

> "I think there'd be room between the Phantom track and
> the queue ramp, where now it's just a bunch of concrete
> that's kind of a dead space" - That dead space is
> where the water and electrical line run for lost kennywood.

That place really isn't equipped for another ride. I am glad they took out the mini golf, there was gum and yucky stuff all over that course the last few years it was open.

> - Kennywood owns land/houses behind Lost Kennywood. For the
> last couple years rumors have floated about adding
> attractions back there. The problem is that the land is
> narrow and there are houses across the street. Kennywood
> has always been repectful to the homeowners. Even one of
> the reasons Exterminator is indoors. If Kennywood was to
> use the land it would be for storage.

Why would they need more storage? They have plenty. It's by the racer.

> - Kennywood always plans carefully. Trust them. The park
> has been there for over 100 years and continues to be
> popular for its size. I'm glad to see that they are
> investing in preservation. In reality thats what keeps
> local families comming to the park year after year and that
> is what Kennywood wants to happen.

Well I can understand you there. But they are putting a lot of money into rides that don't even exsist anymore. They have the ONLY Kangaroo, Auto Race, one of the few Noah's Ark's left, a flying carpet (I don't think there are any others out in the US).

They spend TONS of money restoring these rides, and making parts for them, companies that no longer exsist, etc. etc. I am not saying to take out any of these rides, because they add to the charm of the park, but the park would see an increase for something major within the park within say the next 3 years. And in actuality, I wouldn't go to the park nearly as much as I do, if it weren't for school picnic tickets and such, within the last 5 yeas they have risen the price, and gotten rid of general admission, which was more benefical with families with small children, like myself. I won't be taking my son to KW, until he's older and ready to ride.

Besides you didn't say what you wanted for their next coaster that is what this topic is about.

Katie

Kennywood may not have a large selection of large coasters but they do have good food. Anyways, My idea would be a decent sized steel looping coaster. Not a launched one but with a classic chain pull. About a 110 ft tall lif with a 95 ft drop. Provides mediocre thrills everyone can enjoy much like the corkscrew @ cedar point. Not to intense but just the right size to add to kennywood's selection.

No, I am not a ride operator.

The old mill concept is 100 years old but actually the ride is not. In fact the original old mill had an entirely different layout with a chute in the final run. The mill has been under many changes including being called the Panama Cannal at the time the cannal was being built. There were also jungle themes and such as these things became popular. Only in the 70's was the ride really themed into a haunted mill and has basically stayed the same untill last year. So the history of the ride is that it changes with the times evolving into something popular to attract a new audience.

The cliff by the train is mostly owned by USS yes. There are train tracks below and I believe there is still a water treatment facility. USS also owns parts of the valley between Kennywood and the new mon valley expressway office. Though Kennywood has purchased some of the land back in recent years.

"Why would they need more storage? They have plenty. It's by the racer."

Yes and they need more. They have been planning to clear the space by the racer so they need somewhere to put it. They have been using the empty Ames building and thats only temp.

Kennywood does spend money restoring rides but newer rides can be just as expensive to maintain. Sometimes even more so.

Every talks about the economy around Pittsburgh. It's not that bad yet it's not wonderful either. everyone always jumps in and says "a mojor attraction is needed to boost attendance". I agree with Patripman about needing to take their planning seriously. Sometimes a huge new attraction is not the answer. They usually come with huge new expenses. Look at other parks in recent years. They build huge attractions and yet their attendance is still down.

As for a new coaster. As much as I would love another woody, I think an inverted would be great. Kennywood doesn't have the room at the moment, but give them a few years. Maybe they'll be a few changes and some new resources that will free up some space. ;-)

> No, I am not a ride operator.

> The old mill concept is 100 years old but actually the ride
> is not. In fact the original old mill had an entirely
> different layout with a chute in the final run. The mill
> has been under many changes including being called the
> Panama Cannal at the time the cannal was being built. There
> were also jungle themes and such as these things became
> popular. Only in the 70's was the ride really themed into a
> haunted mill and has basically stayed the same untill last
> year. So the history of the ride is that it changes with
> the times evolving into something popular to attract a new
> audience.

> The cliff by the train is mostly owned by USS yes. There
> are train tracks below and I believe there is still a water
> treatment facility. USS also owns parts of the valley
> between Kennywood and the new mon valley expressway office.
> Though Kennywood has purchased some of the land back in
> recent years.

> "Why would they need more storage? They have plenty.
> It's by the racer."

> Yes and they need more. They have been planning to clear
> the space by the racer so they need somewhere to put it.
> They have been using the empty Ames building and thats only
> temp.

> Kennywood does spend money restoring rides but newer rides
> can be just as expensive to maintain. Sometimes even more
> so.

> Every talks about the economy around Pittsburgh. It's not
> that bad yet it's not wonderful either. everyone always
> jumps in and says "a mojor attraction is needed to
> boost attendance". I agree with Patripman about
> needing to take their planning seriously. Sometimes a huge
> new attraction is not the answer. They usually come with
> huge new expenses. Look at other parks in recent years.
> They build huge attractions and yet their attendance is
> still down.

> As for a new coaster. As much as I would love another
> woody, I think an inverted would be great. Kennywood
> doesn't have the room at the moment, but give them a few
> years. Maybe they'll be a few changes and some new
> resources that will free up some space. ;-)

Good post, the Kennywoood situation and future large scale plans really falls into place if and when the new Route 43 Mon/Fayette expressway is open. One of Kennywoods problems and it has been for many years is its location. There is no easy way to get to the park unless your a local and know the area, (McKeesport for me) but for others who travel from out of town they face challenges. To also add the lack of hotels/motels close to the park, again unless you know the area your lodging choices are limited to anything close. Once the new expressway is built you are going to be able to drive from any major interstate highway (Turnpike, I-70, I-79, I-376 etc) to an exit about 1 mile from the park gates.
I think what Kennywood did this year with improving their entrance area is the first step in a 10 to 15 year plan knowing the impact this new highway will have.

As for the economic situation of the Pittsburgh area.
* This area has the fourth larest concentration of people over 55 in the
nation (Florida, Arizona and the rest of Pa.) are the top 3. It is quite disturbing to see how many young people single and married who are moving out of the area. Area, is it to other parts of Pa or other parts of the country doesnt matter they are leaving. Kennywood faces many challenegs in trying to market the park and they have this year. However I dont see it working as when I drive by the park and see the parking lots half empty on some of the "busier days" that worrries me.
* The school district I work for is the second largest suburban school district in the 5 county region and they get around 6,000 specially priced passes for the school picnic. If you would only know haw many of these passes was sold it would make you sick. The lack of people interested in taking their children or having a family outing at the park is not what they used to be and it is quite evident with the many empty picnic pavilions/tables, parking spaces etc seen on days the park should of been packed.
* The bright side, besides the highway possibilities, is the fact that Kennywood doesnt sit on land that is of much value. Sure land is valuable but the location of the park is not a target for condos, shopping centers highway expansion (West View, White Swan etc).

The next generations of rides besides what is planned for 2006 is going to be taken very seriously, if kennywood plans another coaster or 2 they are going to build someting that is going to be in the park for many, many years to come. The installation of the Laser Loop in 1981 was good for the park for the first 2 seasons and that was it, the Steel Phantom faced the same challenges after the second season. Will another looping coaster help the park I really dont know, but knwoing the 2 prior loopers were seen as noveties by the general public it will be a hard sell for the park.
In my opinion I am afraid for the park if they do build another looper of any kind, but what options do they have another hyper or maybe another themed steel like an Italian Job style coaster? The only other option is for another wood coaster at the park. Look at the success of some of the recent wood installations then look at the parks that either built or are planning on building another wood coaster, their steel options are limited if they even have one at all. To add it is also the parks mentality towards the upkeep of the rides they build. Kennywood, Knoebels, Holiday World etc have done a fantastic job in keeping their wood coasters in fine shape, then look at those parks who do have wood coasters and the lack of care given to them so they build a steel coaster for convinience in my opinion.

Kennywood has a plan and only they know what it is because they wouldnt have dropped 2 million this year on a new entrance area if they didnt have a long term plan in place. I think they go the route of a new wooden coaster custom built to fit a plot of land then go the route of a steel coaster (sit down floorless or even a launched like Hersheys) 3 years later.

Patripman

Well considering that KW is getting the new swing ride next year, there probably won't be a new coaster within the next few years. It would be very nice to have a B&M invert at Kennywood but I don't know if they would do that considering their reputation as an old fasioned amusement park. And if they did put it in they would probably have to put it in Lost Kennywood because it just doesn't seem like it would fit in any other area of the park (especially betweent the Log Jammer and the Racer).

> Every talks about the economy around Pittsburgh. It's not
> that bad yet it's not wonderful either. everyone always
> jumps in and says "a mojor attraction is needed to
> boost attendance". I agree with Patripman about
> needing to take their planning seriously. Sometimes a huge
> new attraction is not the answer. They usually come with
> huge new expenses. Look at other parks in recent years.
> They build huge attractions and yet their attendance is
> still down.

I hate to tell you, but the economy is pretty freaken bad here. The entire city declared bankruptcy in I beleive either last year or the year before that.

I think Kennywood is doing a great job. What they have now is fine with me. I don't need a new ride to be happy with the best park in America. Where else has free parking and an all day pass for less than $30? Yet another great thing that has come from Kennywood.

If Kennywood didn't put in a new ride for 20 years I wouldn't care. I can't say that about too many other parks.

Zac

I'd love to see a B&M invert at KW. In true KW style, the big drop would have to be in the middle of the ride, and that would be a nice change for B&M. As for an Impulse, that could work too, have the station underground, and have the two twisted spike coming out of the ground.

Tim.

> I think Kennywood is doing a great job. What they have now
> is fine with me. I don't need a new ride to be happy with
> the best park in America. Where else has free parking and
> an all day pass for less than $30? Yet another great thing
> that has come from Kennywood.

Umm, just so you know Geauga Lake has I think 8 dollar parking and a $25 entrance fee. The park is probably 10 times bigger than Kennywood, and they even have a water park on site which will be complete next year. I for one believe Kennywoods price is exceptionally high for what they are offering. They haven't gotten a "new" ride since Exterminator and everybody believes this swing is going to be our savior. The park needs a new coaster whether it be wooden, steel, non-inverting or one with inversions. With this expansion coming the park really needs to open up it's options and think wisely to what they are going to get because once they get all the land around the park, where else can they expand? The park should probably invest in one more big steel looping coaster from B&M or Intamin and then concentrate on non-looping coasters to keep its traditional title. All I know is the park needs to do something quick, with Geauga Lakes water park finishing in 2006 and them possibly getting a new coaster in 2007 or 2008, you can bet a lot of people are going to be making that trip to Geauga Lake to get their moneys worth.(Only saying this because the water park really is great. lol)

As far as a future coaster, I think (with the pending aquisition of more land far below the existing property) they could build the ultimate ravine coaster, wood of course.

> What would you think about another famous Kennywood
> dark ride? That would be interesting.

I have been saying for years that they need a Phantom themed Sally interactive darkride to compliment the coaster.

> GARFIELD'S NIGHTMARE....OMFG you have got to be kidding
> me?????

> I actually rode on this stupid ride and was completely
> outraged at what they did to a 100 year old ride!
> You would think that KW a well-respected park wouldn't sell
> itself out, but did they, oh yes they sure did!!
> 3-d, you have got to be kidding me!! It was totally stupid
> and the only way I would ever think about riding it again
> is if i was eating a poisonous mushroom.

I hear something like this once in a while. Was it what I would have done, no. Was it a good move for Kennywood, probably.

The Old Mill was very nearly REMOVED from the park so Garfield gave it a new lease on life. (It could have been replaced by several flat rides.) Secondly, Garfield ride is a family and the Old Mill has ALWAYS been a family ride, after all, Kennywood is a family park. (I do think the 3-D glasses will disappear in a year or two. They don't add much to the ride.) To put this in perspective, in the early 1920's, the Old Mill was re-themed to be a ride "for the education and enjoyment of school children." It was never intended to be a scary ride, much to the dismay of most of us. I've seen some concept sketchs for proposed changes from years ago. Would you have rather had a trip through a steel mill?!

One complaint I hear is that they changed the Old Mill at all, changing its historic value. Then I point out that the previous version was the Old Mill that WE knew. While it was the longest running version of the ride, it was only one of a dozen different versions in a century.

As a matter of fact, the Old Mill that the past couple of generations have known is not the one that was built in 1901. In its history, the Old Mill has suffered a fire, had its queue area changed, been expanded, had its slight drop at the end removed, and had its channels deepened among other things.

Still don't like Garfield? Stick around a few years, if history is an indication, it will change again someday. Until then, enjoy the fact that the Old Mill survives today and is only one of TWO in amusement parks in the US. (Rye Playland has the other. There are also three more at the Iowa, Kansas, and Minnesotta State Fairs.)

Rick

I love Kennywood, but I don't really think that they need a huge one. I haven't been on the PR, I'm going on it in 17 days and just can't wait! Anyway, I think that is enough for now. I don't like going upside down, so I don't like many steel, and that is what I like about the PR. No going upside-down!